howdy, been using pd in mac over a decade but now I got a PC with windows & linux and I did some tests and found some issues, I was discussing this in a ticket in sourceforge* but thought it was best to bring it to this list.
First thing I noticed is that in linux the text font was quite bold and wider, this compromised the visuals as the text does extrapolate the patch file area, see 1st attachment, comparing a file in mac and linux (1-MACxLINUX.png) - mac is the left part, linux is the right part with a circle mark showing how it extrapolated the area of the patch; this also comprises the alignment of patches, cause it's the same font used inside objects, so they get wider, anyway, it does interfere and it'd be nice if all patches would load just fine in any platform, hence my posting here...
Moving on, I also noticed that linux uses "Deja Vu Sans Mono", and how in mac that is somehow substituted to "Monaco". More over, windows can't find "Deja Vu" and prints a warning saying it loaded "courier" instead. Though I think windows looks pretty bad with the courier font, there doesn't seem to be the same kind of conflict as the font spacing seems to be the same - see 2-windows.png attachment.
Now, as far as Purr Data goes, tested it in all systems, and they all come with "Deja Vu Sans Mono" and they all look quite nice and the same!!! I wonder why don't we have the same thing going on for vanilla, where they all carry the same font!
Then I kept testing, did check Pd-Extended, which I think didn't have any similar issues like Purr Data, but then something funny happened. After trying Extended in windows, I reopened vanilla and now it does find the "Deja Vu Sans Mono" font, it doesn't print any warning and doesn't load courier instead anymore. So what happens? It looks "bad" and exactly like linux! See 3-win_dejavu.png attachment.
What intrigues me is that Purr Data (or Pd-l2ork) does load "Deja Vu Sans Mono" for all platforms and even so the patch does not look "bad" like that, as an example, I'm attaching a print screen from pd-l2ork in Linux (4-l2ork.png), to show that it doesn't look like the linux part of the image from 1-MACxLINUX.png
So, I'm a little confused as why using this "deja vu" font does promote such a visual difference in vanilla (as shown in linux and windows) but not in Pd-l2ork or Purr Data (and maybe even extended). I consider it a "bug", an important issue on how patches behave in cross platforms, even if it is just a visual (font display) issue.
I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?
thanks cheers
- this is the ticket I'm also discussing this issue in
What intrigues me is that Purr Data (or Pd-l2ork) does load "Deja Vu Sans Mono" for all platforms and even so the patch does not look "bad" like that, as an example, I'm attaching a print screen from pd-l2ork in Linux (4-l2ork.png), to show that it doesn't look like the linux part of the image from 1-MACxLINUX.png
So, I'm a little confused as why using this "deja vu" font does promote such a visual difference in vanilla (as shown in linux and windows) but not in Pd-l2ork or Purr Data (and maybe even extended). I consider it a "bug", an important issue on how patches behave in cross platforms, even if it is just a visual (font display) issue.
Purr Data includes a particular version of "Deja Vu Sans Mono" with it. It loads it through the @font-face CSS interface, so you get that font regardless of whether you've installed Purr Data or not. -Jonathan
Hi Alex,
I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
yes, or kinda, as I wouldn't say it like that, I can also say that if a vanilla patch doesn't look as how you see it in linux or windows, it is bad... it is a two way street here, and my concern is that things work out of the box for cross platforms.
Or, like I said it myself
*I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms
and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
And by "*what's preventing it from happening?*" I'm basically asking: What is it that we should do to make it happen that we are not doing right now, and why are we not doing it?
cheers
Totally,
I got your point, that’s why I’m asking for those screen-shoots.
As Jonathan said, Purr Data uses a CSS trick which allows browsers to load Fonts overriding the OS. (the fonts are not installed on the system). This is relatively new, before that there was a limited amount of safe web fonts.
Vanilla atm is not installing fonts on the OS afaik. And traditionally, fonts that are not installed on the Os are not available to the Apps.
Don’t get me wrong, we are on the same side & I`m telling a couple of things that I know.
On Windows there’s another monospace font that is shippped since Vista.
Try “Consolas”, <----Case-sensitive. (-font-weight normal).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Friday, February 10, 2017 11:30 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
yes, or kinda, as I wouldn't say it like that, I can also say that if a vanilla patch doesn't look as how you see it in linux or windows, it is bad... it is a two way street here, and my concern is that things work out of the box for cross platforms.
Or, like I said it myself
I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?
And by "what's preventing it from happening?" I'm basically asking: What is it that we should do to make it happen that we are not doing right now, and why are we not doing it?
cheers
2017-02-10 22:33 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Totally,
I got your point, that’s why I’m asking for those screen-shoots.
yeah, I have to figure out how to install that font and how to ask Pd to search for it in Mac OS... but I get it that Pd might look the same if get to do it.
Actually, in my first message, I was able to do that to windows by accident. It ended up installing the deja vu font and then it looked exactly like in linux.
cheers
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
guess I wasn't very clear, I wasn't asking something like "why is purr data different and how does it work", I'm really just saying that they "got it right"
Then I kept testing, did check Pd-Extended, which I think didn't have any similar issues
And like I said here, it seems that Pd Extended also did get it right in providing the same visual consistency (I can recheck it). Now, Extended didn't use web technology, so it's not like that is the only way to get it, I don't think so.
But I know that I actually know nothing, so that's why I ask in clear laymen's terms what's the deal here.
So, before anything, it's just a request and wish that this issue is handled somehow.
cheers
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
and this is to show that I'm being able to load some weird fonts in it :)
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:16 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
it's gotta be some trick I dont know on how to load a font that has more than one word in its name...
2017-02-11 1:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
and this is to show that I'm being able to load some weird fonts in it :)
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:16 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
it's weird how mac os loads "Monaco" by default, but then if you try to give it a flag for another font it doesnt find, it prints the warning, font "x" not found, using (courier) instead...
why doesn't it use monaco instead? or why doesn't it load courier instead of monaco?
in windows, it prints the warning it tried searching for deja vu sans mono but didnt find, then it loaded courier by default instead.
seems reasonable to me that in Mac Os it'd happen the same, it's try to search for Deja Vu, then it wouldn't find it (unless the user installed it), and then it'd load courier instead.
there's gotta be something different in the build system for mac os, right?
cheers
2017-02-11 1:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
it's gotta be some trick I dont know on how to load a font that has more than one word in its name...
2017-02-11 1:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
and this is to show that I'm being able to load some weird fonts in it :)
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:16 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in linux but not in Mac :/
2017-02-11 1:43 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
it's weird how mac os loads "Monaco" by default, but then if you try to give it a flag for another font it doesnt find, it prints the warning, font "x" not found, using (courier) instead...
why doesn't it use monaco instead? or why doesn't it load courier instead of monaco?
in windows, it prints the warning it tried searching for deja vu sans mono but didnt find, then it loaded courier by default instead.
seems reasonable to me that in Mac Os it'd happen the same, it's try to search for Deja Vu, then it wouldn't find it (unless the user installed it), and then it'd load courier instead.
there's gotta be something different in the build system for mac os, right?
cheers
2017-02-11 1:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
it's gotta be some trick I dont know on how to load a font that has more than one word in its name...
2017-02-11 1:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
and this is to show that I'm being able to load some weird fonts in it :)
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:16 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
ok, made some progress, I did screw up in the flag, but now I'm using it right, I just can't seem to get "DejaVu Sans Mono" called, it's loading courier instead [image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 1:07 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
so, installed "deja vu sans mono" in my mac... tried using the flag -font-face
<name>
nothing happened, just got an error that proved I may not have used the flag right, what should I do?
2017-02-10 20:42 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
*>I just hoped we could make vanilla laod the same fonts in all platforms and that patches would all look the same as in Purr Data, what's preventing it from happening?*
To put it fast and dirty but not incorrect:
Purr Data uses web-browser technology to do the GUI. Basically a Chrome browser. That’s why you see that fonts are rendered the same across Oss.
Check NW.js: https://nwjs.io/
On the other hand, it sounds that you are saying that if a vanilla patch does not look as how you see it in your Mac is “bad”.
Vanilla is not shipping “deja vu sans mono”, Can you give screen-shots with this font installed on your Mac? May be your patches render the same as Linux & Windows.
And remember the startup flags:
-font-size <n> -- specify default font size in points -font-face <name> -- specify default font -font-weight <name>-- specify default font weight (normal or bold)
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in linux but not in Mac :/
On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across Oss with the same font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes: Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)
2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
*>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in linux but not in Mac :/ *
On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across Oss with the same font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
You killed me, I`m not an OSX user, but:
http://www.hccp.org/command-line-os-x.html
http://osxdaily.com/2007/02/01/how-to-launch-gui-applications-from-the-termi...
https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/how-to-launch-os-x-apps-from-the-com...
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1308755/launch-an-app-on-os-x-with-comman...
? ? ? ?
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:16 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes: Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)
2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in linux but not in Mac :/
On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across Oss with the same font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/
I open Pd
If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
I get
open: invalid option -- o
Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s <partial SDK name>][-b <bundle identifier>] [-a <application>] [filenames] [--args arguments]
Help: Open opens files from a shell.
By default, opens each file using the default application for that
file.
If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.
Options:
-a Opens with the specified application.
-b Opens with the specified application bundle
identifier.
-e Opens with TextEdit.
-t Opens with default text editor.
-f Reads input from standard input and opens with
TextEdit.
-F --fresh Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring
windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
-R, --reveal Selects in the Finder instead of opening.
-W, --wait-apps Blocks until the used applications are closed (even
if they were already running).
--args All remaining arguments are passed in argv to the
application's main() function instead of opened.
-n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one
is already running.
-j, --hide Launches the app hidden.
-g, --background Does not bring the application to the foreground.
-h, --header Searches header file locations for headers matching
the given filenames, and opens them.
-s For -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs
whose names contain the argument value are searched.
Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each
platform is used.
Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$
2017-02-11 17:28 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
You killed me, I`m not an OSX user, but:
http://www.hccp.org/command-line-os-x.html
http://osxdaily.com/2007/02/01/how-to-launch-gui-application s-from-the-terminal/
https://www.macobserver.com/tmo/article/how-to-launch-os-x- apps-from-the-command-line
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1308755/launch-an-app-on- os-x-with-command-line
? ? ? ?
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:16 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes: Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
I need every baby step possible with all the details for me to test it ;)
2017-02-11 16:14 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
*>seems that using quotes to set up the font with more than one word works in linux but not in Mac :/ *
On Windows doesn’t work from the startup flags from pd, but works by passing it from the command line, with quotes:
%CD%\pd\bin\pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
Can you test this equivalent on Mac?
It will be cool to know if there is consistency in the render of patches across Oss with the same font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:41 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola; pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/
I open Pd
If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
I get
open: invalid option -- o
Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s <partial SDK name>][-b <bundle identifier>] [-a <application>] [filenames] [--args arguments]
Help: Open opens files from a shell.
By default, opens each file using the default application for that file.
If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as a URL.
Options:
-a Opens with the specified application.
-b Opens with the specified application bundle identifier.
-e Opens with TextEdit.
-t Opens with default text editor.
-f Reads input from standard input and opens with TextEdit.
-F --fresh Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoring windows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
-R, --reveal Selects in the Finder instead of opening.
-W, --wait-apps Blocks until the used applications are closed (even if they were already running).
--args All remaining arguments are passed in argv to the application's main() function instead of opened.
-n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if one is already running.
-j, --hide Launches the app hidden.
-g, --background Does not bring the application to the foreground.
-h, --header Searches header file locations for headers matching the given filenames, and opens them.
-s For -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKs whose names contain the argument value are searched.
Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in each platform is used.
Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 7:41 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola; pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
if I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app/
I open Pd
If I do: open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono"
I get
open: invalid option -- o
Usage: open [-e] [-t] [-f] [-W] [-R] [-n] [-g] [-h] [-s <partial SDK name>][-b <bundle identifier>] [-a <application>] [filenames] [--args arguments]
Help: Open opens files from a shell.
By default, opens each file using the default application for thatfile.
If the file is in the form of a URL, the file will be opened as aURL.
Options:
-a Opens with the specified application. -b Opens with the specified application bundleidentifier.
-e Opens with TextEdit. -t Opens with default text editor. -f Reads input from standard input and opens withTextEdit.
-F --fresh Launches the app fresh, that is, without restoringwindows. Saved persistent state is lost, excluding Untitled documents.
-R, --reveal Selects in the Finder instead of opening. -W, --wait-apps Blocks until the used applications are closed(even if they were already running).
--args All remaining arguments are passed in argv to theapplication's main() function instead of opened.
-n, --new Open a new instance of the application even if oneis already running.
-j, --hide Launches the app hidden. -g, --background Does not bring the application to the foreground. -h, --header Searches header file locations for headersmatching the given filenames, and opens them.
-s For -h, the SDK to use; if supplied, only SDKswhose names contain the argument value are searched.
Otherwise the highest versioned SDK in eachplatform is used.
Alexandres-MacBook-Pro:~ porres$
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the same font it'll look as in the other OSs...
but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order to make it consistent ;)
thanks
2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Yes:
Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no spaces in its name.
We are unable to test “DejaVu Sans Mono”
Salutti,
Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:57 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the same font it'll look as in the other OSs...
but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order to make it consistent ;)
thanks
2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order to make it consistent ;)
Some possible solution could be to do a special compile which changes the names to “DejaVu-Sans-Mono” (no spaces)
https://github.com/dejavu-fonts/dejavu-fonts
And ship that? Asking users to install it?
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 9:05 PM To: Alexandre Torres Porres; pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
Yes:
Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no spaces in its name.
We are unable to test “DejaVu Sans Mono”
Salutti,
Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:57 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
well, anyway... this will surely, in my opinion, prove that if you set the same font it'll look as in the other OSs...
but I was hoping that this discussion would lead to what we could do in order to make it consistent ;)
thanks
2017-02-11 18:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com> Sent: Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
2017-02-11 19:05 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes:
Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no spaces in its name.
not at all, this is not in the account of OSX... I can use DejaVu Sans Mono in all other softwares but Pd Vanilla, so this is in Pd's account, sorry...
and, also, purr data loads dejavu sans in Mac OS
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
So, check it out... vanilla in windows complained for the lack of DejaVu Sans Mono, then I installed Extended and it was using DejaVu, so I reopen Vanilla and now it finds it.
This to me makes it seem it's totally possible for Pd to ship and load fonts accordingly, but that's not all...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
Yes:
Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no spaces in its name.
not at all, this is not in the account of OSX... I can use DejaVu Sans Mono in all other softwares but Pd Vanilla, so this is in Pd's account, sorry…
I understand your misunderstanding, I ment that Pd on OSX cant open fonts with spaces in its name. & this is related also to tk/tcl.
and, also, purr data loads dejavu sans in Mac OS
Yes, because of the CSS “@font-face ”, which in turn allows web browsers to load fonts “on the fly” which can be stored anywhere and not need to be installed on the OS.
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 on win xp.
So, check it out... vanilla in windows complained for the lack of DejaVu Sans Mono, then I installed Extended and it was using DejaVu, so I reopen Vanilla and now it finds it.
Yes, you could also have installed just the font instead of installing extended.
This to me makes it seem it's totally possible for Pd to ship and load fonts accordingly, but that's not all…
Yes, if you use an installer. (at least on mswindows)
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux…
Retry using dejavu but with “-font-weight normal” on Pd`s startupflags. And resize font to 10. I cant remember which was extended default font size.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
same with "-font-weigth normal"
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-11 22:38 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
*>>Yes:*
*>>Apparently the cross-plataform issue is because OSX only handle fonts with no spaces in its name.*
*>not at all, this is not in the account of OSX... I can use DejaVu Sans Mono in all other softwares but Pd Vanilla, so this is in Pd's account, sorry…*
I understand your misunderstanding, I ment that Pd on OSX cant open fonts with spaces in its name. & this is related also to tk/tcl.
*>and, also, purr data loads dejavu sans in Mac OS*
Yes, because of the CSS “@font-face ”, which in turn allows web browsers to load fonts “on the fly” which can be stored anywhere and not need to be installed on the OS.
*>well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!*
Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 on win xp.
*>So, check it out... vanilla in windows complained for the lack of DejaVu Sans Mono, then I installed Extended and it was using DejaVu, so I reopen Vanilla and now it finds it.*
Yes, you could also have installed just the font instead of installing extended.
*>This to me makes it seem it's totally possible for Pd to ship and load fonts accordingly, but that's not all…*
Yes, if you use an installer. (at least on mswindows)
*>In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up*
*>here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux…*
Retry using dejavu but with “-font-weight normal” on Pd`s startupflags. And resize font to 10. I cant remember which was extended default font size.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
2017-02-11 22:38 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 on win xp.
sure, and I'm trying to point that there are ways here to make a pd vanilla install that takes care of all this. I might be stating the obvious, but I'm also just keeping a focus to this discussion.
obviously there's a way to make pd install in any platform and take care of such things so they all end up using the same font and looking the same way and that's all I wanna raise.
Of course I'm also happy to investigate and make a detailed report of what the current situation is right now for every platform. I guess we also learned that Pd Vanilla has an issue/bug loading some fonts in Mac OS! Great...
cheers
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
Did you changed the font size?
Drag&drop the coll-help.pd to a new tab on chrome.
The first line ends with the font size for that patch , e.g:
#N canvas 258 200 450 300 10; #X obj 146 102 dac~;
in this case font size is 10.
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
– It will ease a lot solving the issue if the name of the font somehow loses the spaces in its name.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 1:41 AM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
2017-02-11 22:38 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>: Yes, C`mon Alex. The font was installed via the installer. I used it since 2006 on win xp.
sure, and I'm trying to point that there are ways here to make a pd vanilla install that takes care of all this. I might be stating the obvious, but I'm also just keeping a focus to this discussion.
obviously there's a way to make pd install in any platform and take care of such things so they all end up using the same font and looking the same way and that's all I wanna raise.
Of course I'm also happy to investigate and make a detailed report of what the current situation is right now for every platform. I guess we also learned that Pd Vanilla has an issue/bug loading some fonts in Mac OS! Great...
cheers
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
Yes you’re right.
I just use coll-help from your git.
My confusion comes cuz I’m used to ”Consolas” font, and this seems to behave better.
Also switching back to Courier is better than dejavu.
Both Consolas and Courier behave better than Dejavu.
Can you switch to Courier on your Mac and send a screen-shot?
It could be that Courier might be the best cross-platform font, as is historically one of the first monospace fonts (typewriter era).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:31 AM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>: funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
weirdly enough, courier in mac os looks exactly like dejavu sans on windows... see attachment.
I dont think this is a fonts issue, seems like a pd vanilla issue, cause, like I've shown, extended in windows with dejavu sans looks "better", actually looks just like Monaco in Mac OS, and also the same as Purr Data. More importantly, it looks much bettern than in vanilla in windows with the same font...
And now vanilla on a mac with courier looks all crazy and different than in windows... I just suspect vanilla is not handling stuff well, but I'm too ignorant on the subject to discuss it or take a real guess. I'm just trying to point the issue.
cheers
2017-02-12 1:59 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes you’re right.
I just use coll-help from your git.
My confusion comes cuz I’m used to ”Consolas” font, and this seems to behave better.
Also switching back to Courier is better than dejavu.
Both Consolas and Courier behave better than Dejavu.
Can you switch to Courier on your Mac and send a screen-shot?
It could be that Courier might be the best cross-platform font, as is historically one of the first monospace fonts (typewriter era).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:31 AM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
and here's good old pd extended 0.42-5 in my mac loading courier without anything looking funny... see? not a fonts issue
extended does load courier and it looks quite similar to vanilla in windows with courier...
2017-02-12 2:51 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
weirdly enough, courier in mac os looks exactly like dejavu sans on windows... see attachment.
I dont think this is a fonts issue, seems like a pd vanilla issue, cause, like I've shown, extended in windows with dejavu sans looks "better", actually looks just like Monaco in Mac OS, and also the same as Purr Data. More importantly, it looks much bettern than in vanilla in windows with the same font...
And now vanilla on a mac with courier looks all crazy and different than in windows... I just suspect vanilla is not handling stuff well, but I'm too ignorant on the subject to discuss it or take a real guess. I'm just trying to point the issue.
cheers
2017-02-12 1:59 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes you’re right.
I just use coll-help from your git.
My confusion comes cuz I’m used to ”Consolas” font, and this seems to behave better.
Also switching back to Courier is better than dejavu.
Both Consolas and Courier behave better than Dejavu.
Can you switch to Courier on your Mac and send a screen-shot?
It could be that Courier might be the best cross-platform font, as is historically one of the first monospace fonts (typewriter era).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:31 AM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
well, I didnt send the attachment, there you go
2017-02-12 2:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
and here's good old pd extended 0.42-5 in my mac loading courier without anything looking funny... see? not a fonts issue
extended does load courier and it looks quite similar to vanilla in windows with courier...
2017-02-12 2:51 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
weirdly enough, courier in mac os looks exactly like dejavu sans on windows... see attachment.
I dont think this is a fonts issue, seems like a pd vanilla issue, cause, like I've shown, extended in windows with dejavu sans looks "better", actually looks just like Monaco in Mac OS, and also the same as Purr Data. More importantly, it looks much bettern than in vanilla in windows with the same font...
And now vanilla on a mac with courier looks all crazy and different than in windows... I just suspect vanilla is not handling stuff well, but I'm too ignorant on the subject to discuss it or take a real guess. I'm just trying to point the issue.
cheers
2017-02-12 1:59 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes you’re right.
I just use coll-help from your git.
My confusion comes cuz I’m used to ”Consolas” font, and this seems to behave better.
Also switching back to Courier is better than dejavu.
Both Consolas and Courier behave better than Dejavu.
Can you switch to Courier on your Mac and send a screen-shot?
It could be that Courier might be the best cross-platform font, as is historically one of the first monospace fonts (typewriter era).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:31 AM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Sure, I’m also happy.
I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks better on my pc.
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac.
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
please let me reinforce something, cause I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot... maybe I'm not making myself clear, maybe I'm a very confusing guy and troubled mind, but it's been over 30 messages and all I'm really saying (all along, from the very first message) is this:
hey: 1- Purr Data and Extended look like and consistent... they give you fonts you need, and all patches look nice in cross platforms. 2- vanilla doesn't give you fonts you need and when you get them, it looks bad, inconsistent in between different platforms and even different than in Extended/Purr Data with the same fonts...
and all I have is a request: - please lets fix this vanilla issue
sorry, dont get me wrong, I love that you're with me here and I'm also willing to help and investigate this, but it's just that it seems we're not making much progress and that I'm not making my point clear.
cheers
2017-02-12 2:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
well, I didnt send the attachment, there you go
2017-02-12 2:55 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
and here's good old pd extended 0.42-5 in my mac loading courier without anything looking funny... see? not a fonts issue
extended does load courier and it looks quite similar to vanilla in windows with courier...
2017-02-12 2:51 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
weirdly enough, courier in mac os looks exactly like dejavu sans on windows... see attachment.
I dont think this is a fonts issue, seems like a pd vanilla issue, cause, like I've shown, extended in windows with dejavu sans looks "better", actually looks just like Monaco in Mac OS, and also the same as Purr Data. More importantly, it looks much bettern than in vanilla in windows with the same font...
And now vanilla on a mac with courier looks all crazy and different than in windows... I just suspect vanilla is not handling stuff well, but I'm too ignorant on the subject to discuss it or take a real guess. I'm just trying to point the issue.
cheers
2017-02-12 1:59 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Yes you’re right.
I just use coll-help from your git.
My confusion comes cuz I’m used to ”Consolas” font, and this seems to behave better.
Also switching back to Courier is better than dejavu.
Both Consolas and Courier behave better than Dejavu.
Can you switch to Courier on your Mac and send a screen-shot?
It could be that Courier might be the best cross-platform font, as is historically one of the first monospace fonts (typewriter era).
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Sunday, February 12, 2017 2:31 AM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
ok, dont know how I managed to screw up that badly, but now the -font-weight normal" flag works! It doesn't look "bold" anymore, but it still takes a lot of space outside the patch area... whereas in Extended that doesn't happen (intriguing).
and it's funny how vanilla is using "bold" by default
[image: Imagem inline 1]
2017-02-12 0:25 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
funny how I see no difference with -font-weight normal or bold in vanilla, just looks the same (and bad)
2017-02-12 0:22 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-12 0:11 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
> Sure, I’m also happy. > > I`m not on my computer atm, but if iirc the coll-help you did looks > better on my pc. >
cool, i've been working on it since we put cyclone 0.3 pre-alpha 4 or something, but it's still the same font size and averything
#N canvas 553 23 558 592 10;
check if its the same file both on Windows & Mac. >
it's the same file, from git, can't go wrong, same one, same size
So, what really intrigues me is why it looks "ok" in extended, but "weird" in vanilla, if it is the same font and all... guess we need to understand that
cheers
Your point is clear to me.
Careful with your assumptions, we are comparing things that were done with ¨Monaco¨ in the first place.
I understand your point and I agree that we should find find the best option.
Your latest screenshots looks like courier on Windows.
Attached image.
We must do a patch on Courier and test if it renders the same across Oss.
I’m not with my pc so I leave that to you. Anyway @home I have a VM with OSX snow leopard or something old to do such test, I think you have a better Test envrioment.
Salutti, Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2017 5:07 AM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
please let me reinforce something, cause I feel like I'm repeating myself a lot... maybe I'm not making myself clear, maybe I'm a very confusing guy and troubled mind, but it's been over 30 messages and all I'm really saying (all along, from the very first message) is this:
hey: 1- Purr Data and Extended look like and consistent... they give you fonts you need, and all patches look nice in cross platforms. 2- vanilla doesn't give you fonts you need and when you get them, it looks bad, inconsistent in between different platforms and even different than in Extended/Purr Data with the same fonts...
and all I have is a request: - please lets fix this vanilla issue
sorry, dont get me wrong, I love that you're with me here and I'm also willing to help and investigate this, but it's just that it seems we're not making much progress and that I'm not making my point clear.
cheers
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my *Last Ditch Effort* in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in
Windows 3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... *things do not look the same in vanilla and the others* *even with the same fonts!*
cheers
I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my *Last Ditch Effort* in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in
Windows 3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... *things do not look the same in vanilla and the others* *even with the same fonts!*
cheers
Ok Alex,
I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.
You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.
The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # fontsize width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_fixed_metrics { 8 5 11 9 6 12 10 6 13 12 7 16 14 8 17 16 10 19 18 11 22 24 14 29 30 18 37 36 22 44 }
And vanilla has these:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_metrics { 6 10 7 13 9 16 10 21 15 25 25 45 }
Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with these values:
set font_metrics { 5 11 6 13 7 16 8 17 15 25 25 45
We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14 should be 16 btw).
Please test it on all Oss.
I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your git.
Salutti, Lucarda
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>: well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my Last Ditch Effort in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in Windows
- Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... things do not look the same in vanilla and the others even with the same fonts!
cheers
Attached Screen-shot,
Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:43 PM To: Alexandre Torres Porres Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
Ok Alex,
I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.
You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.
The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # fontsize width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_fixed_metrics { 8 5 11 9 6 12 10 6 13 12 7 16 14 8 17 16 10 19 18 11 22 24 14 29 30 18 37 36 22 44 }
And vanilla has these:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_metrics { 6 10 7 13 9 16 10 21 15 25 25 45 }
Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with these values:
set font_metrics { 5 11 6 13 7 16 8 17 15 25 25 45
We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14 should be 16 btw).
Please test it on all Oss.
I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your git.
Salutti, Lucarda
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>: well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my Last Ditch Effort in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in Windows
- Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... things do not look the same in vanilla and the others even with the same fonts!
cheers
what is the bottom left one?
2017-02-14 18:36 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Attached Screen-shot,
Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:43 PM *To:* Alexandre Torres Porres
*Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
Ok Alex,
I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.
You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.
The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # fontsize width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_fixed_metrics { 8 5 11 9 6 12 10 6 13 12 7 16 14 8 17 16 10 19 18 11 22 24 14 29 30 18 37 36 22 44 }
And vanilla has these:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_metrics { 6 10 7 13 9 16 10 21 15 25 25 45 }
Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with these values:
set font_metrics { 5 11 6 13 7 16 8 17 15 25 25 45
We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14 should be 16 btw).
Please test it on all Oss.
I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your git.
Salutti, Lucarda
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my *Last Ditch Effort* in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in
MacOs! 2) Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in Windows 3) Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... *things do not look the same in vanilla and the others* *even with the same fonts!*
cheers
Did you read my messages?
I need your results on All OS.
Download:
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-gui.zip
extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.
Backup the originals or rename them to “ORIGINAL-pd-gui.tcl” before overwriting.
Restart Pd.
Give us screen-shots on All Oss.
Salutti, Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:29 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
what is the bottom left one?
2017-02-14 18:36 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Attached Screen-shot,
Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list <pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:43 PM To: Alexandre Torres Porres
Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
Ok Alex,
I got some good news to you, but not to everybody.
You can make vanilla look-like extended. You have to tweek “pd-gui.tcl”.
The .tcl from “extended” had these lines:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # fontsize width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_fixed_metrics { 8 5 11 9 6 12 10 6 13 12 7 16 14 8 17 16 10 19 18 11 22 24 14 29 30 18 37 36 22 44 }
And vanilla has these:
# sizes of chars for each of the Pd fixed font sizes: # width(pixels) height(pixels) set font_metrics { 6 10 7 13 9 16 10 21 15 25 25 45 }
Backup your “pd-gui.tcl” somewhere & then edit the one you are using with these values:
set font_metrics { 5 11 6 13 7 16 8 17 15 25 25 45
We are modifying just the first four from extended, 8, 10 12 & 14 (14 should be 16 btw).
Please test it on all Oss.
I have tested it on mswindows with dejavu bold with coll-help from your git.
Salutti, Lucarda
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 7:39 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
I also opened an issue in Purr Data about this https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues/258
2017-02-14 17:21 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-02-11 21:40 GMT-02:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>: well... not sure if something important was clear enough, let me say again, in windows, Pd Extended came and loaded DejaVu Sans Mono!
well, I'm referring to this message when I tried to point out for the second time about this issue with print screens - I got an answer as if I was stating the obvious and making several pointless remarks, but then I also had tried a third time to make this clear and then a fourth attempt on a different thread... this has been a fifth time, and, well, this is my Last Ditch Effort in raising this issue...
In Extended, the font still looks ok and nice, it doesn't corrupt the visuals in the patch, it's only in vanilla that things get screwed up
see?
here, let me show you 2 print screens, a patch in Extended that looks a lot like the Mac Os version with Monaco, that looks also reasonably the same as Purr Data in every platform, and how vanilla in windows with dejavu sans got screwy... in the same way as in linux...
ok? clear now? I'm sending those print screens again, and I'm including a third print from Purr Data and a fourth with vanilla on Mac Os with Monaco, hope it is clear now...
so, again, this is:
- vanilla with DejaVu in windows;
- Extended with DejaVu in windows;
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os
- Vanilla with Monaco in Mac Os
What are we seeing here?
- Purr Data in Mac Os with DejaVu lloks like Vanilla with Monaco in MacOs!
- Purr Data with DejaVu in Mac Os looks like Extended with DejaVu in Windows
- Vanilla in Windows with DejaVu looks like something else...
My point, once again, is that there's a consistency between Pd-Extended and Purr Data, but things get complicated when Pd Vanilla comes in... things do not look the same in vanilla and the others even with the same fonts!
cheers
Remember to force OSX to use DejaVU!!!
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:46 PM To: Alexandre Torres Porres Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
Did you read my messages?
I need your results on All OS.
Download:
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-gui.zip
extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.
Backup the originals or rename them to “ORIGINAL-pd-gui.tcl” before overwriting.
Restart Pd.
Give us screen-shots on All Oss.
Salutti, Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2017 10:29 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
what is the bottom left one?
2017-02-14 18:36 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Attached Screen-shot,
Note that the modified .tcl is using bold font, but you can imagine the normal font.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Hey all
I'm happy that so many people are trying to tackling the font / box size issue in vanilla now. From what I can tell, box sizes aren't even consistent within the same Linux distribution. When I switched from Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04, boxes grew horizontally by one pixel per character for patches with fontsize=10. From what I can tell, other font sizes haven't been affected (no change). Unfortunately, font size 10 is the one that I usually use for my patches.
And it's not only a visual defect. Symbolboxes suddenly don't fit into the GOP area anymore and thus are not displayed at all on the parent. Functionality of patches is truly harmed by this issue.
I never managed to get a deeper understanding of the problem and I decided as a temporary work-around to manually fix the line for font size 10 in font metrics in pd-gui.tcl whenever I update Pd. Somehow I concluded back then that this is not a definitive solution, since my modification failed to make box sizes consistent between Linux and Windows.
On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +0000, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
Did you read my messages?
Yes, but I can't keep track of all of them.
I need your results on All OS.
Download:
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-gui.zip
extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.
Done.
Give us screen-shots on All Oss.
Of what? Is there a test patch to use for the screenshot? I guess it would make the most sense if all participants in this survey would use the same patch.
I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct" width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height is 2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I currently have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in Windows).
I'd be really glad if this is going to be fixed.
Roman
On Mit, 2017-02-15 at 11:05 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +0000, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.
Done. I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct" width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height is 2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I currently have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in Windows).
Report for Windows 10: It doesn't change anything, boxes still have the same height and width for fontsize 10.
Conclusion: Your pd-gui.tcl fixes fontsize=10 on Ubuntu 16.04 without negative effect on Windows. Already a huge improvement.
Roman
Hi Roman,
Cool.
Y put a pkg here :
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/pd-test-metrics.zip
with a test patch, feel free to add some GOP for your tests.
I ship the fonts and [ggee/image]. For Windows Install the .ttf, just double-click on them.
You can also use “-font-weight normal” without the quotes at pd`s startup flag.
The overall target is that patches that were done with extended displays correctly on vanilla
Also include in the pkg the .tcl. that goes in the tcl folder.(backup the original)
Please report if there are problems with [ggee/image].
Give us some screenshots please, specialy on Linux
Salutti, Lucarda.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2017 10:28 AM To: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
On Mit, 2017-02-15 at 11:05 +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Die, 2017-02-14 at 22:46 +0000, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
extract “pd-gui.tcl” and overwrite your existing one on the Tcl folder.
Done.
I can tell so much yet: Your pd-gui.tcl makes boxes use the "correct" width (no overlapping in GOP) with fontsize=10. However, box height is 2px smaller compared to what I had in Ubuntu 14.04 and what I currently have in Windows 10 (this is without DVSM, but with Courier in Windows).
Report for Windows 10: It doesn't change anything, boxes still have the same height and width for fontsize 10.
Conclusion: Your pd-gui.tcl fixes fontsize=10 on Ubuntu 16.04 without negative effect on Windows. Already a huge improvement.
Roman
Hey all
I'm happy that so many people are trying to tackling the font / box
size issue in vanilla now. From what I can tell, box sizes aren't even consistent within the same Linux distribution. A program can essentially either resize fonts to fit hard-coded box sizes, or it can resize boxes to fit the fonts. Pd Vanilla does the latter.
When I switched fromUbuntu 14.04 to 16.04, boxes grew horizontally by one pixel per
character for patches with fontsize=10. When you switched to 16.04, you started using an updated font engine to render the fonts. As far as I can tell there is no set of rules or constraints on the font stack developers to keep font sizing algos consistent across time. I do know that Windows, OSX, and the old Gnu font stack sizing algo (i.e., 14.04) were within a pixel of each other when measuring the width of a 31-characterfor string of DejaVu Sans Mono at a particular pixel size. The newer Gnu font stack rendered a string that was seven pixels wider at the same pixel size.
The metrics can vary widely or not at all for a particular font.
-Jonathan
2017-02-15 12:27 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list <pd-list@lists.iem.at
:
A program can essentially either resize fonts to fit hard-coded box sizes, or it can resize boxes to fit the fonts. Pd Vanilla does the latter.
And Purr Data does the former, right?
I think the first option is obviously safer. This issue is important in Pd as it is a visual programming language, it needs to be consistent in my opinion, what are the challenges involved in making this change?
cheers
Some screenshots with .tcl modifided as extended.
Windows, Linux & Mac:
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/t-metrics-screen-03.jpg
http://lucarda.com.ar/x/macosx.jpg
This last one is especially for Alex.
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2017-02-15 12:27 GMT-02:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list pd-list@lists.iem.at:
A program can essentially either resize fonts to fit hard-coded box sizes, or it can resize boxes to fit the fonts. Pd Vanilla does the latter.
And Purr Data does the former, right?
For DejaVu Sans Mono, yes. But that's because I hard-coded font-size scaling factors known to work with the four font stacks: Windows, OSX, old-school sane Gnu, and new-school outlier Gnu. I'm currently checking for the new-school Gnu fonts by measuring a test-case at startup. That can be revised to find the best fit for an arbitrary font per box size, but it hasn't been done (or tested) yet.
I think the first option is obviously safer. This issue is important in Pd as it is a visual programming language, it needs to be consistent
in my opinion, what are the challenges involved in making this change? The challenge is figuring out if fit_font_into_metrics from pd-gui.tcl is broken. If not, then figuring out why it isn't decipherable by human beings. -Jonathan
cheers
2017-02-14 17:43 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Please test it on all Oss.
sure, when I get the chance, it might take a while...
You can open Pd from the command line in mac:
cd to the bin directory of the application folder, e.g.:
/Applications/Pd-0.47-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin
(or the 64-bit equivalent).
Run ./pd -help to get list of startup flags
./pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono" to open Pd with dejavu font.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
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*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
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awesome, this is what I got, similar to windows and linux
2017-02-12 4:42 GMT-02:00 Matt Barber brbrofsvl@gmail.com:
You can open Pd from the command line in mac:
cd to the bin directory of the application folder, e.g.:
/Applications/Pd-0.47-1.app/Contents/Resources/bin
(or the 64-bit equivalent).
Run ./pd -help to get list of startup flags
./pd -font-face "DejaVu Sans Mono" to open Pd with dejavu font.
On Sat, Feb 11, 2017 at 3:55 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com
wrote:
open: unrecognized option `--help'
2017-02-11 18:54 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
We know the problem.
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app --help
note the “--”
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com *Sent:* Saturday, February 11, 2017 8:45 PM *To:* Lucas Cordiviola *Cc:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] cross platforms issues with displaying fonts in vanilla but not in Purr Data
got the same error, starting now with
" open: invalid option -- l "
2017-02-11 18:21 GMT-02:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Try:
open -a /Applications/Pd-0.47-1-64bit.app -help
this should return all possible startup flags to your terminal.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li stinfo/pd-list
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Jonathan Wilkes -
Lucas Cordiviola -
Matt Barber -
Roman Haefeli