Pd-list April 2010

pd-list@lists.iem.at

143 participants
284 discussions

second instrument/piece in the silent percussion project...
by Marco Donnarumma 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

I'm always impressed by the sensitivity of your instruments. Brilliant work. MANO looks far more sensitive than the silent drum, or is it just my impression? -- Marco Donnarumma aka TheSAD Independent New Media Arts Professional, Performer, Teacher - Edinburgh, UK PORTFOLIO: http://marcodonnarumma.com LAB: http://www.thesaddj.com | http://cntrl.sourceforge.net | http://www.flxer.net EVENT: http://www.liveperformersmeeting.net

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[PD-announce] GridFlow 9.8 ready-to-use
by Mathieu Bouchard 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

> Thanks for the mac support - nice stuff! :) Thanks to Patrick Boivin for his work on better OSX support, and on making packages for OSX and Ubuntu. For the upcoming version, 9.9, there is another wave of additional OSX support, which is still not going to be as much supported as Ubuntu but... a lot of the gap will have been bridged. Patrick and I have been meeting weekly to work plenty of hours on OSX support (and also plenty of hours on other things). _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801

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externals/template/
by Mathieu Bouchard 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote : > IMHO, the best plan going forward for all these great network objects > would to make them a standalone library based on externals/template. Instead of talking like that, can you just state your agenda about externals/template ? I mean, obviously, What it is that you want to promote here, is externals/template. What is this thing, and what makes it "the best plan going forward" for anything ? When you increase the amount of "boilerplate", what problem does it solve exactly ? What's a "standalone library" ? When anything in the template changes, how do you merge the changes to every folder that is based on the template ? What does it achieve, to rename externals/mrpeach/net to externals/peachnet ? If you are looking for bêta-testers for externals/template, why don't you just say « I am looking for bêta-testers for externals/template » ? _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard, Montréal, Québec. téléphone: +1.514.383.3801

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Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
by Ben Baker-Smith 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

>From: colet.patrice(a)free.fr > >sorry, I might going to be rude, > >but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good. >From: hard.off(a)gmail.com > >just uploaded 2 vanilla workouts. these are not tracks. just me jamming in >the staffroom of the school where i work. not sure if they will change >anyone's mind on anything, but i think they show a bit of dynamic range and >the possibilities offered by vanilla pd and perseverance. > >http://soundcloud.com/vanilla-pd > >there are a lot of samples here, but all were originally created from >scratch in vanilla pd. Seems to me that hardoff is killing it once again (thanks for posting). I guess me and Colet just don't share the same taste in music. -Ben

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Re: [PD] phasor~ and osc~ right inlet: exact timing
by Matteo Sisti Sette 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

> Actually, I think (it's not the first time I say that, I guess), that > all inlets of object classes, which have signal outlets (or all > objects that convert from message domain to signal domain) should > take the exact timing into account. Yeah! No object should be left out! Every single object should take exact timing into accounts, or at the very least, have a "v" counterpart that does (I guess the objects that don't are faster, so when sub-block accuracy is not needed one may actually prefer the "inaccurate" version). By the way, you say all those objects that convert from message to signal domain. Why not the other way round too? I always wished there was a [vthreshold~] for example. Or is it physically impossible? I mean perhaps you get the information one block too late? > Also it is cumbersome to have to know which object > classes support exact timing and which not. Absolutely! thanks m. -- Matteo Sisti Sette matteosistisette(a)gmail.com http://www.matteosistisette.com

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Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
by colet.patrice＠free.fr 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

>> Matteo Sisti Sette a écrit : >>> Frank wrote: >>> > It's not so much the tool, as it is the skills that makes music >>> > sound good. >>> That is true for really good tools. Needless to say that Pd is one of >>> them. sorry, I might going to be rude, but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good. they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound. like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original. The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician, for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry? Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition. pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor.

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Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
by colet.patrice＠free.fr 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

I'm really asking about the use of puredata, what places could it have in the sound process, for the moment it is very good for making some noises or fx processing, and so cool for driving openGl or sdl. But I'd like to put this software at a more important place, like mixing all intruments, soundfiles, and adc~'s together in realtime, or using pd made synth and fx only for playing live. The only solution I know is netpd but it would need improvements for accessing a full control of all the stuff we need, mostly in sequencing which is very limited. I'll try all the r2d2 patches and try netpd again, maybe we could do something with it... hagwe ----- Mail Original ----- De: "Lorenzo" <lsutton(a)libero.it> Cc: "pd-list" <pd-list(a)iem.at> Envoyé: Vendredi 16 Avril 2010 15h23:06 GMT +01:00 Amsterdam / Berlin / Berne / Rome / Stockholm / Vienne Objet: Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd? This (rather pointless) discussion is really clogging the list since ages now, whithout IMHO giving any real suggestion on improvements for Pd... It started IIRC with someone coming to mailing list about software A and sayng "hey software B is much better ("smoother", uh?) than A which sucks".. I wish we could have much more interesting/productive discussions on the list, like the new gui, designs, development in general, how to make patches, learning Pd better, helping each other learn.. I'm not saying critique is not good on the mailing list, but it should be constructive at least... In the end, if people are really dissatisfied with Pd I think they should (esp. mailing-list-wise): - propose/discuss, clear, understandable feature requests, bug reports, ideas, like: "I would like pink glowing shiny buttons in Pd" - Get involved into the development (if they have the skills) and improve what they don't like - Switch to some other greater, uhm.. smother :), software End of Friday rant ;) Best to all, Lorenzo. > >> Oh, wasn't the metaphor clear, really? >> > nope > > > >> well, no problem, here you go then... once more... >> > there you go > > >> We don't care to know if someone says; "Hey, I got a clarinet", we wanna know what he is doing with it, in a sense that it'd make more sense if the person would come and say; "Hey, check out, look what I do>with my clarinet". The point here is to emphasize the instrument as a tool, a media, something that you use to make an idea come true... so the point, in the end, is to present this idea. the media should not>be the interesting thing, but the result! >> > without a good media, we can't get good results, > reverbs sounding like bathrooms were cool when Joe Meek used it fifty years ago, > but now the situation is a bit different. > > >> So maybe you need and want a shitty clarinet to achieve the objective you have, maybe you need a quite expensive one. Nevertheless, the point is what you do with it. >> > > The clarinetist of one chamber orchestra I've wrote for had to use a 'C' clarinette that sounded like shit to play all the notes, > instead of her cool but expensive B flat, the result is that I don't liked the sound she had. > > (If you want to compare I can send you the files) > > > >> As I said, that are things you can only do in Pd... which is basically when you need to program something. If you dont see that, maybe you dont need it! >> > I use Pd for other purpose than trying to convince people I could make music with it, even if I've made several pieces with that it's possible to download. > > > >> And since we need to program it, we are the ones doing the thing, Pd is not doing much for us. And yeah, you build stuff with it. So maybe you should not waste your time building things that are already there,>why reinvent the wheel? If you can do something in Pd, it doesn't mean it has to be done in Pd, or that is easier to do it with it. >> > I use the stuff I've built with pd for show numbers, like modern circus, and I don't tell all the world each time I use a pd patch. > > > >> So, anyway, if you build something in Pd that does not work, it is your fault, not Pd's... if you built a clarinet in it that does not do what you want and need, maybe you should ask a guy who's good at>clarinet building... >> > It's not a problem of 'working' but a problem of 'sounding'. > > >> hope it was clearer now, can't make it clearer than that I guess, by the way... >> > I do appreciate. > > >> take care >> > thank you for your effort in my understanding, but I still remain on the idea that pd is just a tool for learning dsp, > but indeed it can be used for other purposes, > maybe that is where the discussion has evolved, but > > when one knows how dsp works, I guess that person would use real developper tools to make his stuff, like a compiler. > > > cheers > > > > > > 2010/4/15< colet.patrice(a)free.fr> > > > I would care about how the clarinette is sounding, if I or a skilled clarinetist > can't make a melody with it, i would play with noises... > > > Selon Alexandre Porres< porres(a)gmail.com>: > > > > > >>> pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how >>> pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor. >>> >> Is that what you are really expecting pd to be or sound like? Well, indeed, >> I disagree Pd would be a proper tool for that. And you are really wrong to >> assume pd is only a tool to study DSP, although it is in fact really good >> for that as well. >> >> Now, you are missing completely the points of using Pd, and if you can't >> imagine why you would need pd to do things that you can only do in pd, maybe >> pd is not for you... no, it ain't a money maker for the dance floor dj... >> >> I see musicians and artist that see why they need to do something in pd and >> ask for help. It is common to have an artist creating a piece that uses Pd >> without knowing how to program it, but working in conjunction with a >> programmer. >> >> And of course, Pd can be only a minor (but essential) thing on the >> project... you don't need to reinvent the wheel in Pd, or just use Pd if you >> are using it... there is no rule for that... in a sense that I don't see >> there is such a thing called "pd music". >> >> >>> who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry? >>> >> I dont see the point here... Of thousands of people who work with computer >> music/technology, do we only have mostly Pierre Schaeffers out there? Is >> Pierre Henry the Only guy who gets to be a musician? If someone is using pd >> then he can't be Pierre Henry or many other thousands of people I know >> besides him that are actually great musicians? >> >> And yeah, nobody cares if someone comes out and says; "Hey, look what an >> amazing I have here, I got a Clarinet!!! And I built it... or someone who's >> really good built it for me!!!". All we want to know is, what do you do with >> it, right? And we don't really care about the Clarinet. And if you don't >> like it, don't blame it on the clarinet... >> >> cheers >> >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > _______________________________________________ Pd-list(a)iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

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Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd
by Matt Barber 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

>>> Matteo Sisti Sette a ?crit : >>>> Frank wrote: >>>> > It's not so much the tool, as it is the skills that makes music >>>> > sound good. >>>> That is true for really good tools. Needless to say that Pd is one of >>>> them. > > sorry, I might going to be rude, > > but I've never heard some music completely made with PureData that really sound good. > > they are alway little experiments, or false reproductions of things we know and without the sound. > > like last time someone posted something that sounded like 'psychic warriors of gaia', but honnestly i'd prefer the original. > > The skill to make music with pd is about rewriting everything, at the end it's not really the skill of a musician, > > for example in concrete music, who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry? > > Pierre Schaeffer has demonstrated that he is a very skilled music scientist, but he didn't even made a shit that we could hear like a composition. > > pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor. > I might also be rude, here, but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_example http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy_of_the_undistributed_middle (even if your premises were true) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance#Argument_from_personal… Etc. Also, there are plenty of counterexamples to your last premise, if you believe you can do the same things soundwise in Pd that you can in Max/MSP (e.g. plenty of people dance to Radiohead). I think maybe your feelings are more about the musical taste of musicians who use Pd than the technical possibilities of Pd. There are different social contours associated with all the various sound-producing softwares which say very little at all about the softwares themselves. (sorry to continue this thread) Matt

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bin_ambi for linux
by Konstantinos Benardis 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

Hi everyone Is the bin_ambi library available for linux? Does anybody knows where to download it? Thanks

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Re: [PD] nusmuk_audio WAS: Max Smoother Audio than Pd?
by Alexandre Porres 16 Apr '10

16 Apr '10

> pd is just a tool for learning dsp, there is no such project that show how > pd is cool to make people moving on the dance floor. Is that what you are really expecting pd to be or sound like? Well, indeed, I disagree Pd would be a proper tool for that. And you are really wrong to assume pd is only a tool to study DSP, although it is in fact really good for that as well. Now, you are missing completely the points of using Pd, and if you can't imagine why you would need pd to do things that you can only do in pd, maybe pd is not for you... no, it ain't a money maker for the dance floor dj... I see musicians and artist that see why they need to do something in pd and ask for help. It is common to have an artist creating a piece that uses Pd without knowing how to program it, but working in conjunction with a programmer. And of course, Pd can be only a minor (but essential) thing on the project... you don't need to reinvent the wheel in Pd, or just use Pd if you are using it... there is no rule for that... in a sense that I don't see there is such a thing called "pd music". > who is the musician, Pierre Schaeffer, or Pierre Henry? I dont see the point here... Of thousands of people who work with computer music/technology, do we only have mostly Pierre Schaeffers out there? Is Pierre Henry the Only guy who gets to be a musician? If someone is using pd then he can't be Pierre Henry or many other thousands of people I know besides him that are actually great musicians? And yeah, nobody cares if someone comes out and says; "Hey, look what an amazing I have here, I got a Clarinet!!! And I built it... or someone who's really good built it for me!!!". All we want to know is, what do you do with it, right? And we don't really care about the Clarinet. And if you don't like it, don't blame it on the clarinet... cheers

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Pd-list April 2010