Pd-list June 2007

pd-list@lists.iem.at

146 participants
264 discussions

Click-through edit mode
by Luke Iannini (pd) 08 Jun '07

08 Jun '07

Hey all, I remember someone asked about a modifier to interact with GUI elements temporarily without leaving editmode. I hadn't heard of this, so I checked out pd.tk... the modifier on all platforms is control-shift-click, it seems. Works great on OS X here. Just thought I'd pass this along, since I had no idea this existed and it's quite handy! Cheers Luke

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Re: [PD] elitism, software and academia (was GEM FTGL Sadness)
by jared 08 Jun '07

08 Jun '07

Hey Andy. I personally don't believe there is any sort of line that separates composer from programmer, or sound designer, except that at the two extremes of the spectrum some programmers can be obsessive about technical methodology and never explore aesthetics, and some composers can be nonchalent and dismissive about technical rigor and chase aesthetic results at the expense of understanding and repeatability. Well said. Same goes with analogue purists who have not yet embraced the software world. The force of industry is continually to divide programmers from practicioners, to demark roles like "creative sound designer" from "audio programmer" and create neat conservative little pidgeonholes for HR people to fit CVs into. Of course this is nonsense. Any good sound designer or musician is greatly enriched by a knowledge of programming, DSP, physics etc, and at the same time any programmer is greatly enabled by understanding the aesthetics and big picture of a product they work on. I completely agree. I think that a balance between technical and aesthetic disciplines would be a god-send. As for "elitism" I either honestly don't see much or unconsciously choose to rise above it. Yes, as far as forums and lists, 'rising above' is definitely the best policy. My main frustration with elitism (that I've raised in this thread) was rooted in the fact that this elitism has polarized the academic landscape; and that I can't find a curriculum that fits my needs. Higher education is so expensive....I can't justify paying for something that I'm not passionate about....But, don't cry for me Argentina :-) The greater danger imho is the opposite problem, a dumbing down of technology to black boxes, proprietry tools, entrenched conservative thinking, "not invented here" syndrome. This makes any composer/designer/creative a slave to tools and methods they don't understand. It also hurts industries, like film and games, that become entrenched in very conservative production methodologies and softwares like Protools. This saps all the real creativity from the job and acts as an anti-progressive inhibitor of new ideas. Amen! But to attact the kind of people that would go with Max or Reaktor we could do with more people building, sharing and documenting high quality synths and plugins. That's a great point too. I think that the PD community, as a whole, would greatly benefit if 'pure composers' (for a lack of a better term) were using it as much as 'patchers' were using it. By the way, I really love what you're doing with PD. Very useful, indeed. Thanks. What happened to your VST's? I can't seem to find them on your site. Take care, Jared

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Re: [PD] [PD-announce] Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2 released!
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 07 Jun '07

07 Jun '07

Hey, I think we should actually keep this on the list so people can contribute to the thread. libiconv.2.dylib is included in the Pd.app, I think I found part of the problem. The location of the dependencies in the libquicktime plugins aren't being rewritten to reference the embedded libs: /Applications/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/lib/libquicktime/ lqt_videocodec.so: /sw/lib/libquicktime.0.dylib (compatibility version 1.0.0, current version 1.0.0) /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib (compatibility version 7.0.0, current version 7.0.0) I'll have to fix that... .hc On Jun 6, 2007, at 6:38 AM, Tim Boykett wrote: > > Hi Hans, > > I will keep this off the list until I can get it working! > > Okay, > > Vigor145:~ tibo$ /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/pd > tk scaling is 0.999016715831 > Setting LIBQUICKTIME_PLUGIN_DIR: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime > > then just to see what is in that directory: > > Vigor145:~ tibo$ ls /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime > lqt_audiocodec.so lqt_faad2.so > lqt_mjpeg.so lqt_videocodec.so > lqt_dv.so lqt_ffmpeg.so > lqt_png.so lqt_vorbis.so > lqt_faac.so lqt_lame.so lqt_rtjpeg.so > Vigor145:~ tibo$ > > the pdp_qt still does not work. > > As a possible side note, when I start PD this way, the wish shell > is visible > instead of the sexy PD icon and the fonts all look fuzzy. > > When I try to load the movie, I get the horrible stream > of error messages that I include below. Looking at it it seems that > there is a problem > with the libiconv.2.dylib library. I checked fink and it is the > latest version. > > Vigor145:~ tibo$ fink list iconv > Information about 5854 packages read in 7 seconds. > i libiconv 1.10-6 Character set conversion library > i libiconv-bin 1.10-6 Executables for libiconv package > i libiconv-dev 1.10-6 Developer files for libiconv package > > But I also cannot imagine why we need character set conversion > libraries! > > Hmm. Might there be some other fink dependencies in here that I am > not aware of? > > Any further ideas? I cannot even see what thing we need version > 7.0.0 of instead > of version 6.0.0. > > Cheers, > > tim > > > Setting LIBQUICKTIME_PLUGIN_DIR: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime > RCNE SendEventToEventTarget (mous Moved ) failed, -50 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_audiocodec.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_audiocodec.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/ > libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_audiocodec.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_audiocodec.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_dv.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_dv.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_dv.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_dv.so requires version > 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_faac.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_faac.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libfaac.0.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_faac.so > Reason: image not found > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_faad2.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_faad2.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_faad2.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_faad2.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_ffmpeg.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_ffmpeg.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_ffmpeg.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_ffmpeg.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_lame.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_lame.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_lame.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_lame.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_mjpeg.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_mjpeg.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_mjpeg.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_mjpeg.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_png.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_png.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libpng12.0.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_png.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_png.so requires version > 17.0.0 or later, but libpng12.0.dylib provides version 0.1.2 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_rtjpeg.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_rtjpeg.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_rtjpeg.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_rtjpeg.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_videocodec.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_videocodec.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/ > libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_videocodec.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_videocodec.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > load_codec_info_from_plugin: dlopen failed for /Volumes/taten/Apps/ > Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/ > libquicktime/lqt_vorbis.so: dlopen(/Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2- > extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/ > lqt_vorbis.so, 2): Library not loaded: /sw/lib/libiconv.2.dylib > Referenced from: /Volumes/taten/Apps/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/ > Contents/Resources/bin/../../lib/libquicktime/lqt_vorbis.so > Reason: Incompatible library version: lqt_vorbis.so requires > version 7.0.0 or later, but libiconv.2.dylib provides version 6.0.0 > quicktime_decode_audio_stub called > quicktime_decode_video_stub called > quicktime_delete_acodec_stub called > quicktime_delete_vcodec_stub called > > > > > On 05/06/2007, at 4:23 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > >> /Applications/Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2.app/Contents/Resources/bin/pd ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic

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ieee1394
by Tim Boykett 07 Jun '07

07 Jun '07

Hello PDPers, I have seen that the ieee1394 capture objects in PDP are working. So ow the other way: is there some way to have a ieee1394 output object? chrz, tm

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Clickable gop data structures
by Jamie Bullock 07 Jun '07

07 Jun '07

Hi, I'm just starting to get my hands dirty with data structures. In particular GOP data structures. Inspired by Chris Mccormick's wonderful s- abstractions, I'm trying to make a simple GOP transport, with graphical play/stop/pause rewind etc. controls. The main showstopper at the moment is that I don't seem to be able to make the UI elements 'clickable'. Using [tot] I can detect the mouse position when clicking inside the subpatch, but when the graph is on parent, this doesn't work. Of course, I don't want to use [tot] in the parent, because the GOP subpatch might well move. Is there some other way to make a clickable element? Chris's s-env abstraction seems to detect ctrl-click, but It isn't obvious to me how this is achieved... Jamie

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denormals
by Matteo Sisti Sette 07 Jun '07

07 Jun '07

Hi, I may be missing something, but... I don't think it should be any surprise that intels and other processors "still" have the denormal problem. AFAIU, a processor may handle denormals in a more or less efficient way, but it will always be quite much slower when handling denormals than when handling normal numbers, and it can't be expected to avoid or eliminate them, since in applications other than DSP they may be useful (otherwise they wouldn't exsist at all). We shouldn't wait for the cpu manufacturers to "solve" this problem: it is the DSP application's responsibility to avoid denormals (as other dsp applications do), by using some technique such as those described in the references you have already quoted. And when I say "the DSP application", I mean in this case PD, since I think it is a low-level issue that shouldn't be addressed at the patch level. By browsing the archives I saw that some general solutions were proposed years ago which allowed to make PD denormal-safe. I don't have the knowledge to understand them or their related problems in depth, so forgive me if I ask a stupid question: Why didn't those lines of code become part of PD?? Didn't they really solve the problem? Or was there any drawback? Or is there any good reason for not getting rid of denormals? Thanks m. -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Non perderti nella giungla di facili promesse, Logos ti da credito sempre! * Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=6559&d=7-6

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binweise delay
by Mirko Maier 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

hi list, is there a possibility for binwise spectral delay with fft? i tried to write the analysis in buffers and read it time-variably out before re-synthesizing, but that didn't work (in fact buffer writing / reading the analysis did not work at all). mirko -- Psssst! Schon vom neuen GMX MultiMessenger gehÃ¶rt? Der kanns mit allen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/multimessenger

3 6

gem+ati
by Nikola Jeremic 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

hi list have pd+gem running on my ubuntustudio box with ati9200 radeon. Gem is working nice except the fact that it is craching PD every time i try to destoy/close the gemwin with "segmentation fault" message. same thing was happening on other distros, so i belive it is the problem with ati drivers. anybody knows a solution? thx n.

4 4

[ann]: compilation problems
by Roman Haefeli 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

hello d.morelli and IOhannes i just compiled fann-2.1.0 and the ann externals from cvs. i had no problems to compile the externals, but when i load [ann_td], i get: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/ann_td.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/ann_td.pd_linux: undefined symbol: fann_create ann_td ... couldn't create and for [ann_mlp]: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/ann_mlp.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/ann_mlp.pd_linux: undefined symbol: fann_create_array ann_mlp ... couldn't create shall i try with an older version of fann? thanks in advance roman ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

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Re: [PD] Pd linking to Openoffice
by ruth mccracken 06 Jun '07

06 Jun '07

HI Frank, Thanks for taking the time to look at this! a/ Some more information that might help: after I uninstalled pd-extended 0.38, I reinstalled the OS (ubuntu feisty 7.04). So the autobuild was installed on a fresh OS. b/ I am still not succeeding with the pd install. Following your instructions, and performing configure && make in ../pd/src, i received the message below: >>Assembler messages: Fatal error: can't create ../obj/g_canvas.o: Permission denied make: *** [g_canvas.o] Error 1<< and, of course, pd would not start. please, any more instructions???? thankyou very much for your help, Ruth >So I guess there's something wrong on Ruth's machine. But what could it be?< --------------------------------- Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user panel and lay it on us.

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Pd-list June 2007