Pd-list June 2007

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146 participants
264 discussions

[PD-announce] OPEN technologies workshop, Zaragoza, Spain, June 26th - July 1st
by Hans-Christoph Steiner 05 Jun '07

05 Jun '07

OPEN technologies workshop, Zaragoza, Spain, June 26th - July 1st http://www.0j0.org/pmwiki/index.php/Events/GohanDevelopmentJun07 ******* FREE WORKSHOP ANNOUNCEMENT ******* Arduino, Pd, and Processing are becoming more and more intertwined. Sensors controlling software synthesis, robots controlled by video tracking, custom musical instruments, and more. We are a collection of developers working with these free software tools. Join us to work on projects of these combinations, or help us create new possibilities by bringing these tools ever more intertwined. This event is a combination of a hacklab and a barcamp. We are following the ad hoc, participant-driven nature of the barcamp in combination with the collaborative work studio environment of a hacklab. If you have not been to a hacklab, barcamp, and/or unconference before, here are a couple of good references to get an idea of the way it is done: BarCamp on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BarCamp There will be workshops and talks, and plenty of time to work. We will all be working together to create projects which will then be exhibited in Zaragoza. Bring one or more of the following: ideas, projects, a desire to learn, a desire to teach. Come everyday to pick up skills and finish your project. Come whenever you can to learn new bits and pieces, and help build compelling things to exhibit! Dates & Location: June 26th (Tuesday) - July 1st (Sunday) Centro de Historia Pl. San Agustín 2 50002 Zaragoza - Spain http://www.zaragoza.es/centrodehistoria/ Team - Guest developers: * Hans-Christoph Steiner, Pd, Polytechnic University, community management * Emanuele Roman, Processing, visual representation[visio imaginorum sonus est] * XÄ, Pd, electronic music Team - Resident developers: * David Cuartielles from Arduino * Marcos Yarza from Libelium, physical interfaces Join us! Just sign up on the register page! http://www.0j0.org/pmwiki/index.php/Jun07/Register If you live near Zaragoza and are willing to host people, please mark that on the registration page. If you want to come and need a place to stay, contact people on the registration page who marked themselves as hosts. .hc ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ---- You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie _______________________________________________ PD-announce mailing list PD-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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puredata evolution
by Mathieu Bouchard 05 Jun '07

05 Jun '07

> PD is often said to be meant to be a tool for just prototyping. Who says that? > I'm curious: how many of you really re-code their pd patches into > something else when you're finished experimenting and you've reached a > reasonably "final" version of what you're patching? I don't. I believe it rarely ever happens and that whoever tells you that is a fan of C++ who is snobbing pd in the same way that he'd snob all interpreted languages. > I think pd-vanilla is the data-flow, audio-oriented analoguous of an > interpreted programming language. I've called pd an interpreted programming language for years. I encourage people to say a pd program instead of a pd patch. > Ok, an interpreted language is 1000 times slower than a compiled one, Usually not, it depends on the primitives of the language, whether they are big operations or small operations. Because with default block size one pass of [+~] does 64 things in a loop, it's a lot faster than doing 64 times [+]. Likewise, GridFlow's [# +] often does more than 100000 equivalents of [# +] and because of that it's rather close to C speeds (though it could get a notch closer... and will). GridFlow was a lot about making a library that allows to write a fast program in a slow interpreter. Then, nowadays there are several kinds of intermediate languages that are used to accelerate interpretation. There's hardly any major scripting language interpreter that would reparse commands at every execution (ok, Bash does; what else?). Others either use various kinds of bytecode or abstract syntax trees. _ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada

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nested boxes
by adam armfield 05 Jun '07

05 Jun '07

someone's experiment with representing lisp expressions graphically: http://www.32768.com/bill/weblog/2004/11/04/someone-threw-up-some-lisp/ all the best adam ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Mail is the world's favourite email. Don't settle for less, sign up for your free account today http://uk.rd.yahoo.com/evt=44106/*http://uk.docs.yahoo.com/mail/winter07.ht…

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Re: [PD] puredata evolution
by Matteo Sisti Sette 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

Hi, PD is often said to be meant to be a tool for just prototyping. It certainly had to be so when it was born but hey, nowadays, with the available cpu power of average machines... don't you think that it is no more necessarily so? I'm curious: how many of you really re-code their pd patches into something else when you're finished experimenting and you've reached a reasonably "final" version of what you're patching? I don't. I put this under the thread of "pd evolution" because in my opinion, in my wishes, in my personal vision of pd's future, one really important step would be to assume it is no more a tool for prototyping but an environment for developing final applications. I think pd-vanilla is the data-flow, audio-oriented analoguous of an interpreted programming language. Ok, an interpreted language is 1000 times slower than a compiled one, so, in the case of applications requiring 100% state-of-the-art cpu power, it can only be used for prototyping; however, for applications that require much less computing power than is available, a lot of interpreted languages are used for developing real-life applications. IMHO there are just a couple of crucial things that need to be solved in order to make that step in PD. One is a few bugs that make your life impossible when you're developing a somewhat "large" application (i.e. many abstraction, reused many times, and nested, as is needed when designing a complex system either top-down or bottom-up or mixed). Every time you hit CTRL+S, you're likely to be obliged to close PD and restart it. And the second is the GUI is tremendously slow. I don't mind it may be somewhat limited if one wants to build arbitrary interfaces. I just accept (and eventually love) pd's gui, with its bangs, toggles, sliders, and the way they work; with appropriate programming (i.e. patching) they are powerful (you can use them as display avoiding manual changes, you can obtain multiple controllers of the same value that don't loose their coherence etc etc). I just take them as they are and as they work... but the problem is: it's all so slow. I can't believe it can't be faster and less cpu-expensive. Reimplementing the CURRENT guy mechanism, without any change in its "specifications", in a faster way would be imho an enormous benefit to those who use PD as a developing environment. Because it would encourage rather than discourage such practices as nesting GOP-enabled abstractions to mantain complex interfaces manageable. I don't know whether some of the aspects I describe are specific to the Windows version, as I only use PD under Windows. However, coherently with the idea of a reliable developing environment, if this environment is supposed to be platform-independent, platform-specific issues should be solved. I'd love to hear other opinions about all this. Bye m. -- Email.it, the professional e-mail, gratis per te: http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: In REGALO 'All the Good Thing' di NELLY FURTADO Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=6617&d=4-6

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PD i education
by Eirik Arthur Blekesaune 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

Can anybody help me point out who uses PD to teach electronic music? .. (Algoritmic) Composistion Synthesis DSP-theory real-time performance What are the pros and cons for using it to teach DSP-theory? Best, Eirik Blekesaune

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puredata Arduino and Ping
by Marko Timlin 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

I am working with several ultra sound sensors called Ping from Parallax wired to an Arduino board that is connected to puredata. currently I am working with 3 sensors and it works fine. now I want to work with 5 sensors and the following problem occurs: - I get "phantom" values on sensors that are not modified: if, for example, I change the value of sensor B, sensor C also changes its values, not exactely syncronized but it jumps to a simlar value range. very annoying indeed. is that a problem of my script for arduino or a problem of pd? does anybody already have experience with such a configuration? I am using Pd version 0.39.2-extended-RC1 on windows xp. attached you find the arduino and pd patch for that idea. thanks, marko

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gem based multi headed "media player"
by Tim Boykett 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

hi, has anyone had any experience using (multiple) gem(s) to output several videos simultaneously on a multiheaded (linux) box? the questions that arise as we ponder this is how much CPU gets used to decode the video, how much to render, how much the graphics cards can take away effort from the CPU, what sort of idea of harddisks can make the data transfer more efficent, etc. any experiences? any suggestions? cheers, tim

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Latest Pd-extended experiences (zexy)
by David Powers 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

Hi, So I finally downloaded and installed the latest Pd extended. First impressions are good - looks MUCH better on windows than the previous version. I can actually show this to people, and perhaps have them believe it is professional software now. Gem is also recent, which was an issue for me with past releases. So, my first test is loading up my monster VJ patch. Here, I see there are some problems. First, I thought that zexy wasn't loading right, but finally I realized that what happened is the [demux] shortcut is gone, and I had to type out demultiplex instead. A little inconvenient, since there are 25 abstractions at least besides the master patch, but not impossible to fix. Second issue, which to me is perhaps a bigger problem: the utility externals seem to have disappeared from Gem with no warning. I use randomF a lot, and it's just gone! This forces a rather tedious process of searching for instances in my patch, and replacing with some abstraction that takes an integer and divides it to get a random float. For that matter, wouldn't it be reasonable to have a built in ability to get random floats? In most any programming language I have ever seen, random numbers are normally integers that get converted to floats, and I find it odd that PD has built in random integers only... So, bottom line: for now my VJ patch is broken, but I believe it requires only minor fixes. I will report back on whether I am able to get it up and running, and how much time it takes to do so. ~David

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Re: [PD] PD-list Digest, Vol 27, Issue 15
by ruth mccracken 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

Hi, I have installed pd-extended 0.38.4 on ubuntu feisty. When I tried to open it, it asked for several libraries. So I made several symbolic links to libraries it has asked for, and they appear to be working OK. But libvos3gcc3.so has got me stumped. When I try to open pd I get the following error message: /usr/local/lib/pd/bin/pd-gui: error while loading shared libraries: libvos3gcc3.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory I have libvos3gcc3.so in /usr/lib/openoffice/program. I have tried: a/ making a symbolic link from /usr/local/lib/pd/bin to /usr/lib/openoffice/program/libvos3gcc3.so b/ copying libvos3gcc3.so to /usr/local/lib/pd/bin Neither worked! *@#%$%!! Does anyone have any advice on what I can do here? Thankyou! pd-list-request(a)iem.at wrote: Send PD-list mailing list submissions to pd-list(a)iem.at To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pd-list-request(a)iem.at You can reach the person managing the list at pd-list-owner(a)iem.at When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of PD-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Re: Latest Pd-extended experiences (IOhannes m zmoelnig) 2. function-to-block dictionary in pd-extended [was: Re: PD i education] (Anders Friberg) 3. Re: Try my Digital Waveguide Synthesis patches! (Frank Barknecht) 4. Re: Try my Digital Waveguide Synthesis patches! (Frank Barknecht) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:32:55 +0200 From: IOhannes m zmoelnig Subject: Re: [PD] Latest Pd-extended experiences To: David Powers Cc: pd-list Message-ID: <4663C027.1060509(a)iem.at> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15 hi. i stripped the "zexy" from the subject-line. David Powers wrote: > Bad news: > > BUT - there are some SERIOUS problems with Gem, and the entire patch > is now broken!!! I'm trying to understand more of the problems, but > what I see right now, is something wrong with pix_buffer, and > pix_freeframe, and something with the fonts, in particular. There's an > error with rotateXYZ but I don't think that's important. Any > suggestions??? This is on WinXp, pd-extended RC 1. let's have a look. > > Here is the output when I first load my patch: > > [tabdump] part of zexy-2.1 (compiled: Apr 14 2007) > Copyright (l) 1999-2006 IOhannes m zm?lnig, forum::f?r::uml?ute & IEM > expr, expr~, fexpr~ version 0.4 under GNU General Public License > MAN::resetState entered > GEM: loaded image: C:/vid/gem-vj/crab.jpg > [tabset] part of zexy-2.1 (compiled: Apr 14 2007) > Copyright (l) 1999-2006 IOhannes m zm?lnig, forum::f?r::uml?ute & IEM > pix_film:: directshow support > handle 0 AAF0D98 > filmQT created > pix_film:: quicktime support > handle 1 AAF0F48 > handle 2 12FCA98 > handle 3 12FCB38 > handle 4 12FCBD0 > handle 5 12FCC70 > handle 6 12FCD18 > pix_buffer_read: couldn't find pix_buffer '1115-buff' [pix_buffer]: there is a minor annoyance, where [pix_buffer_read] (and [pix_buffer_write]) do a check for an existing [pix_buffer] at creation time (which is a bad time to check, since the corresponding [pix_buffer] might be yet non-existant). usually you can safely ignore this warning. (however, i was not able to detect any other problems from your error logs, which does not mean that there are none). > GEM: loaded images: C:/vid/gem-vj/img/aliens1/ .jpg from 0 to 18 skipping 1 > [urn] part of zexy-2.1 (compiled: Apr 14 2007) > Copyright (l) 1999-2006 IOhannes m zm?lnig, forum::f?r::uml?ute & IEM > img-loadhack > ... couldn't create > handle 0 12FE8F0 > filmQT created > handle 1 12FE9E8 > handle 2 12FEAA0 > handle 3 12FEB40 > handle 4 12FEBD8 > handle 5 12FEC78 > handle 6 12FED20 > pix_buffer_read: couldn't find pix_buffer '1121-buff' > GEM: loaded images: C:/vid/gem-vj/img/mad/ .jpg from 0 to 13 skipping 1 > trying to load C:/vid/gem-vj/freeframe/PeteSlide > C:\\vid\\gem-vj\\freeframe\\PeteSlide: couldn't load > error: GemException: couldn't load FreeFrame-plugin > pix_freeframe freeframe/PeteSlide > ... couldn't create just to make sure: you DO have a PeteSlide.dll in C:/vid/gem-vj/freeframe/? and Gem has been able to load this dll in previous incarnations? afaik, Gem for w32 is still just directly pulled from gem.iem.at (instead of compiled on the autobuild farm); this might still be a problem with compiler versions and the like... > trying to load C:/vid/gem-vj/freeframe/PeteGaussianBlur > C:\\vid\\gem-vj\\freeframe\\PeteGaussianBlur: couldn't load > error: GemException: couldn't load FreeFrame-plugin > pix_freeframe freeframe/PeteGaussianBlur > ... couldn't create > handle 0 12FC708 > filmQT created > handle 1 12FC800 > handle 2 12FC8B8 > handle 3 12FC958 > handle 4 12FA350 > handle 5 12FA3F0 > handle 6 12FA498 > pix_buffer_read: couldn't find pix_buffer '1141-buff' > GEM: loaded images: C:/vid/gem-vj/img/fly/ .jpg from 0 to 14 skipping 1 > GEM: loaded images: C:/vid/gem-vj/img/universe/ .jpg from 0 to 12 > skipping 1 > error: GEM: rotateXYZ: needs 0 or 3 arguments > error: GEM: rotateXYZ: needs 0 or 3 arguments > error: GEM: rotateXYZ: needs 0 or 3 arguments > error: GEM: rotateXYZ: needs 0 or 3 arguments this has always been like this: [rotateXYZ] either needs no or exactly 3 arguments; try to find out why your patch gives another number of arguments to this object. > [demultiplex] part of zexy-2.1 (compiled: Apr 14 2007) > Copyright (l) 1999-2006 IOhannes m zm?lnig, forum::f?r::uml?ute & IEM > error: GEMtext: unable to open font C:/vid/gem-vj/over/vera.ttf Gem's default font has changed from arial.ttf to vera.ttf for legal reasons. just copy your old C:/vid/gem-vj/over/arial.ttf to C:/vid/gem-vj/over/vera.ttf.... mfga.sdr IOhannes ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 04 Jun 2007 09:52:48 +0200 From: Anders Friberg Subject: [PD] function-to-block dictionary in pd-extended [was: Re: PD i education] To: marius schebella , Hans-Christoph Steiner , pd-list(a)iem.at Cc: afriberg(a)csc.kth.se Message-ID: <4663C4D0.3050100(a)speech.kth.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Sounds great! I started to think about how it could be done. One simple start would be to include the list of objects according to function that is found in core-pd. However, I think it would be better to put in in the help menu rather than then right-clicking on the canvas. This would encourage newbies to use the standard pd blocks to start with. A general function-to-block dictionary is more complicated since there seems to be something like 1000 help files in the doc section... One possibility could be to put a text label in each help file, for example: ;;;pd-extended classification;;;category: audio;function: filter, subfunction: bandpass;;; This is just an example. It could be done in a number of ways e.g. just give keywords. The audio/control classification is of course already evident from the tilde sign.This could be complemented with a short "one-liner": ;;;description: A 2-pole bandpass filter;;; Then this would be divided in thee tasks: 1. agree on the list of categories and functions 2. label the help files ( I guess that it would be easy for everyone to do in the CVS?) 3. Implement sorting according to function in the browser. (If the browser search the doc section a new lib would be included automatically.) The first step can be done on this list or in the pd doc group. The second step can easily be distributed. I could spend some time with it and I think I could mobilize more people at the department as well. The last step depends mostly on hans so it would be great to hear your opinion about it. /Anders marius schebella wrote: > Three, I would like to help build such a database. > marius. > > Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: >> >> I sometimes forget even the names of the objects that I have written, >> so I would use the dictionary for sure. So you are not alone in the >> desire for a dictionary, there is at least two of us ;) >> >> .hc >> >> On May 30, 2007, at 7:51 AM, Anders Friberg wrote: >> >>> This is a quite extreme viewpoint. Translate that to language >>> learning, for example a German learning English. It implies that >>> using a dictionary from German to English is forbidden and the only >>> available dictionary is from English to German. Then assume that the >>> German guy have some basic understanding of the English language but >>> forgot one word... This is exactly my own case. Maybe I am away from >>> pd for a year (God forbid!). Then most of my fluency will fade away >>> and a dictionary would be extremely helpful. I tend to remember >>> functionality but not the exact block name. Am I alone? >>> We also try to avoid any fancy stuff in the basic tutorials but we >>> use pd-extended ourselfs and we provide ready-made patches using >>> pd-extended that the students can interface to. >>> /Anders -- --------------------- Anders Friberg Associate Professor Speech, Music and Hearing, KTH Lindstedtsv?gen 24 S-100 44 Stockholm http://www.speech.kth.se/~andersfr/ work: +46 8 7907876 mobile: +46 70 7746287 ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:42:36 +0200 From: Frank Barknecht Subject: Re: [PD] Try my Digital Waveguide Synthesis patches! To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <20070604084236.GV12992(a)fliwatut.scifi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hallo, Kim Taylor hat gesagt: // Kim Taylor wrote: > I've found this board very useful while doing my university project, I > thought I'd show you what I've done with Pd. Any feedback at all would > be really useful at this stage in the project. It'd also be nice to > get some comments from you Pd guru's on how I've put it together. Just had a quick look, impressive work you did there. More comments later, but there is one big technical problem for everyone not on Windows as you: Your abstractions are named with mixed upper/lowercase letters and in your patches you even use different spelling for the same patch sometimes, like [dline-term] and [dline-Term] while the actual object is called "dline-TERM.pd". Pd *is* case-sensitive so you should decide what names to use. I would recommend to stick with all lowercase names. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Mon, 4 Jun 2007 10:58:29 +0200 From: Frank Barknecht Subject: Re: [PD] Try my Digital Waveguide Synthesis patches! To: pd-list(a)iem.at Message-ID: <20070604085828.GW12992(a)fliwatut.scifi> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hallo, Kim Taylor hat gesagt: // Kim Taylor wrote: > I've found this board very useful while doing my university project, I > thought I'd show you what I've done with Pd. Any feedback at all would > be really useful at this stage in the project. It'd also be nice to > get some comments from you Pd guru's on how I've put it together. > > See attachment, or failing that > http://www-users.york.ac.uk/~kt503/3yp/KimsWaveguides.zip Another thing: Something really strange is happening in excitation.pd: Opening it, even with -noloadbang, completely freaks out my Pd and makes it grind to a complete halt for like 20 seconds. The scollbar to the right is showing a huge patch area, but there doesn't seem to be anything outside the visible area. Ciao -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ ------------------------------ _______________________________________________ PD-list mailing list PD-list(a)iem.at to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list End of PD-list Digest, Vol 27, Issue 15 *************************************** --------------------------------- Got a little couch potato? Check out fun summer activities for kids.

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[PD-announce] Call for Papers: FLOSS+Art
by propaganda＠goto10.org 04 Jun '07

04 Jun '07

sorry for >< please >> -- FLOSS+Art Call for Papers Deadline: September 15th 2007 people.makeart is a new project by GOTO10. It is a repository of articles and lecture materials focused on the relationship between FLOSS (Free/Libre/Open Source Software) and digital arts, as well as a database of free digital art projects. The selected papers will be published on the people.makeart website and will be printed in the FLOSS+Art book, scheduled for spring 2008, using OpenMute's POD publishing service. GOTO10 is now accepting new, old and recycled papers on the following issues: - opening digital art's practice, code and culture - FLOSS communities VS. art collectives - digital art licensing, copying and distributing, using open content models - role of the artist in FLOSS development - influence of FLOSS on digital art practices - free software to produce art and the art of producing free software - economy of an open digital artwork - FLOSS as an embedded political message in digital art - paradox and limitations of open licenses for digital art - FLOSS as a way to quote and embed other artworks in a new one - digital artist as a FLOSS developer/user and vice-versa - definitions and manifestos for a free software art - branching and forking of an open digital artwork - opening digital art to ensure future maintainance and porting Submission Procedures: - Submit your final paper to pmafloss-at-goto10-dot-org no later than September 15th, 2007. Include the text "FLOSS+Art" followed by your paper's title in your e-mail subject line. - Submit as many papers as you want, one mail submission for each. - Accepted formats : plaintext, LaTeX, OpenDocument No other file format will be accepted. - The paper must be attached to the mail, do not send us links - The submitted paper must be written in English - Paper must be 1500 words minimum More information: http://people.makeart.goto10.org/ :* The FLOSS+Art POD publishing is a collaboration between GOTO10 and the Digital Research Unit of the University of Huddersfield, with commissions and contributions from various organisations and institutions. _______________________________________________ PD-announce mailing list PD-announce(a)iem.at http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-announce

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Pd-list June 2007