Pd-list November 2005

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143 participants
298 discussions

PD OSX packaging redux
by David Plans Casal 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Sorry to multi-thread, but I can't find the original in my pd inbox... A few days ago, there was this thread: "Re: [PD] Pd packaging on osx was: Re: [PD-announce] [osx] pd++0.39-1Beta available" And Frank suggested we might want to go the Fink route for PD packages (for externals or all). I think that's a great idea! Did anyone else agree? Is anyone moving ahead with that? d -- # David Plans Casal problem.each { |day| assert_nil(spoon) }

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Re: [PD] basic DSP stuff
by Chuckk Hubbard 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Not that I don't appreciate the snide commentary, but this is why I'm asking. You can't forget the sin*sin part. i stands for "imaginary". (slowly: i is "imaginary"). Turning the product of sines into the negative product of sines is imaginary. There is no number that, squared, equals -1. There is no number that, squared, equals -1. It's not really there. Date: Mon, 07 Nov 2005 20:58:36 +0100 > From: Piotr Majdak <piotr(a)majdak.com> > Subject: Re: [PD] basic DSP stuff > Cc: Pure Data List <pd-list(a)iem.at> > Message-ID: <436FB1EC.80908(a)majdak.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed > > Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > i*sin(a) and i*sin(b) multiply to -sin(a)sin(b)? > > let's forget the sin*sin and look at the i*i part only: since i = > sqrt(-1) by definition, i*i is -1 (slowly: i*i= sqrt(-1)*sqrt(-1) = > sqrt(-1 * -1) = sqrt((-1)^2) = -1) > > Thus, i*sin(a) * i*sin(b) = -1 * sin(a)*sin(b) > > br, piotr > > > > ------------------------------ >

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Re: [PD] clearing a subpatch on exit?
by Chuckk Hubbard 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Thank you, menuclose is the command I was looking for. Actually, the subpatch I want to clear is not the patch I want to close. I also realized none of this makes any difference if the patch isn't saved after clearing the subpatch. Anyone know a way to save a patch by a command? Would [; pd-JI.pd write JI.pd( work??? This message should do it, if run from another patch: > ____________________ > |; / > |pd-JI.pd clear; | > |pd-JI.pd menuclose\ > > .hc > > On Nov 8, 2005, at 1:18 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > > I still have the same problem with my presets- the subpatch wherein I > > write them saves its contents, which include a 12,000-element array > > per preset, and when I reopen my main patch, PD doesn't read the whole > > thing. It doesn't reach the length I've been told PD patches can be, > > but somehow it doesn't read to the end of the patch, and none of the > > connections on the main page show up, among other things. If I open > > in a text editor and delete all the scalars in that canvas, it works > > fine. > > > > Is it possible to execute a command when a window closes? Say, to > > send ";pd-presetmemory clear" when JI.pd is told to close? > > > > I tried [loadbang]---[;pd-presetmemory clear( but, even though that > > command showed up before the presetmemory canvas in the file, it never > > reaches that point on load. > > > > I have a button for manually clearing pd presetmemory, but I don't > > always hit it before I close. > > > > Thanks. > > -Chuckk > > > > -- > > "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover > > of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." > > -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke > > Zarathustra"_______________________________________________ > > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > "The arc of history bends towards justice." > - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. >

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gui stuff
by Thoralf Schulze 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

hi everyone, doing housekeeping just turned up some installed-once-and-forgotten-about software - in this case AVE visual editor (this is basically a gui wrapper around the avisynth frame server, which in turn is a scripting language for video processing). I was stunned by its user interface - for a screenshot, see http://puredata.info/Members/tfbb/gui/AVE/view . Regarding the canvas, this is probably as effective as graphical programming can be. I would like to keep the pd-like text in the objects, however :-) honestly: I don't know if something like this is possible with tcl/tk (or feasable for pd), it might be a starting point for thinking about possible improvements of pd's ui. the Objects- and Values/Help- boxes are definitely good ideas to make the learning curve less steep for beginners ... with kinf regards, thoralf. with kind regards, thoralf. ___________________________________________________________ How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com

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Gem cursor 0 under os x not working? +
by patrick 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

hi, maybe it's because of the wacom driver, but i cannot turn off the cursor in the gem window. i've ask a friend to try it and it's not working for him either... so is there a way to remove the cursor in gem 0.90 / os X. + a long long time ago i saw a gem patch that did something i'm trying to do : selecting (with the mouse in the gem window) an area and zoom the video by the size of the selection. but sadly, i don't find this patch anywhere. maybe someone know this patch or have a solution? + the wacom driver is really bad in os X. i cannot use HID from hans (http://at.or.at/hans/pd/hid.html). he told me that he saw someone using the wacom in os x as a HID device, so maybe it will be possible for the external to see and use the wacom under this os (it's working perfectly in linux). any input? pat

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.pdrc or org.puredata.pd.plist
by Ed Kelly 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Hi list, Thanks Gunter for the patch, I've just about had it with work (and with Mac) for now, but I'll try that patch... if anyone out there knows how to get PD to remember it's path settings after transferring it from one osx machine to another (I want to zip up everything and have it working when it's unzipped without having to re-configure) then let me know. I tried the org.puredata.pd.plist file, that didn't work! I tried ~/.pdrc, that didn't work. I'll do a workaround in a readme file for now, but there must be a way to do this... Have a great weekend, Ed -> -> --> ---> -----> --------> -------------> r3search + praktik EK5perimenz ___________________________________________________________ To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo! Security Centre. http://uk.security.yahoo.com

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Re: [PD] GUI freeze
by Chuckk Hubbard 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

Usually it seems to happen when there's a lot of stuff happening. It doesn't interfere with anything else. One other thing that's affected is radio buttons. I have it reading the presetmemory when I load a score to see how many presets are there, and updating a radio on the main page with that number so those presets can be allocated to different voices from the main interface. Sometimes it draws the top and bottom boxes, sometimes just the top. The cursor changes when held over where the others should be, and clicking them does what it should, I just can't see which box I'm checking. The reading in of the bank of presets is a relatively large amount of information, about 133 kb per preset, larger than the main program itself. This is the same information that, if I don't clear it before saving the main program, prevents the connections on the main patch from being drawn. -Chuckk Hallo, > Chuckk Hubbard hat gesagt: // Chuckk Hubbard wrote: > > > First off, I apologize if this is a common topic; I couldn't hunt > anything > > down in the archives, but I wasn't sure what search strings to use. > > Often, PD stops drawing numbers for me. I can click on a box and type in > a > > number and see it, but if I scroll, it changes the value without showing > me > > what it is. Once it starts doing this, it won't stop no matter what. It > runs > > across all patches, too, even if I close all patches and reopen it won't > > draw the numbers. It also won't show the numbers for midi input when > this > > happens. > > It does this very frequently, though I can't think of what I did just > before > > it happened last time (a few minutes ago). Scalar drawing instructions > still > > work fine regardless. > > Any ideas? > > The updates for the graphical elements are throttled by Pd, which > could lead to this behaviour. If there is a lot of data passed between > Pd's engine and the GUI, Pd will stop to update some GUI elements so > frequently. I'm not sure, which objects are already throttled, the > number box (Ctl-3) is definitely among them. Do you have a lot of > stuff happening, if this occurs? > > Ciao > -- > Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__ > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 16:30:30 -0500 > From: Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans(a)eds.org> > Subject: Re: [PD] PD OSX packaging redux > To: David Plans Casal <main(a)davidcasal.com> > Cc: pd-list List <pd-list(a)iem.at> > Message-ID: <f95fd921d3aae6dc531d03d4c37d094d(a)eds.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed > > > On Nov 10, 2005, at 5:45 AM, David Plans Casal wrote: > > > Hey > > > > As always in the FLOSS world, by the time you start work on something, > > someone smarter has already done it :-) > > > > On 9 Nov 2005, at 23:12, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: > > > >> Things are mostly already broken down into logical units. Pd, > >> externals, flext, those all have distinct build systems which are > >> just called from packages/darwin_app/Makefile. I have now been > >> sponsored to make this build system cross-platform, and > >> cross-packaging system even. So after this is done, it will be > >> easier to make fink packages, darwinports, RPMs, DEBs, gentoo > >> packages, etc. All with the huge benefit of having the exact same > >> contents in every package across all platforms. > > > > Could you explain what you mean by 'sponsored'? If you mean you're > > getting funded to actively work on PD's build system, this is > > wonderful news! > > Yes, there are currently two sponsors: > > Anders Friberg organized sponsorship for a common Windows build, here's > the official sponsor: "The development was sponsored by the Music > acoustics group, KTH, Stockholm (http://www.speech.kth.se/music/) and > the S2S^2 European coordinating action (http://www.s2s2.org)" > > And Martin Dupras organized sponsorship of a cross-platform build > system from his university, University of West England. > > Thanks much to both of them, they really deserve the praise since they > stepped up and offered and then did the bureaucratic legwork. > Hopefully, this can serve as a model future funding of Pd development. > This just put my lifetime free software earnings above US$2000. Its a > start... > > > I agree with Frank that the point of Fink is upstream libs and > > separation of concerns, which is why I spent hours yesterday looking > > at packaging pd in fink; the result of which is...I can see Hans's > > point: > > > > If we can use the darwin_app/Makefile to produce a Fink package (or > > darwinports, or gentoo, or whatever, especially .deb), then the > > package 'maintainer' job disappears, since all that has to happen is, > > we keep different packages generated from that makefile in > > puredata.info <http://puredata.info>, for people to get, or they get > submitted to fink > > tracker, or whatever. > > > > In any case, generating packages from a unified build system makes > > sense. No? > > Yes indeed, that is the grand plan, I hope to get the foundation > implemented by the end of the month, along with Windows, OSX, and Linux > binaries all from the same source. The further packaging (deb, rpm, > fink, darwinports, etc.) will be up to who ever wants to do it. > > >> If you look at just your particular OS/package preference, you don't > >> see the whole picture. > > > > Point taken. > > > >> As I have said before, I am not going to stop anyone, but all I ask > >> is that we spend our limited resources on other things besides > >> reinventing the build system wheel. Fink or Darwinports packages > >> could be useful, so please at the very least, let's work together to > >> have one system that can work for building. > > > > I think I would really appreciate the ability to rely on fink packages > > so that if I need a lib I'm thinking through fink, not a hand-compiled > > mess. And, I'd like to help achieve that. However, I'm not going to > > get in the way of a sensible idea, like unifying builds and generating > > packages from that. > > > > How does Hans' work relate to James'? Is James just packaging .app s > > outside the remit of Hans' darwin_app? > > Jamie is basically doing a minor development fork of > package/darwin_app/Makefile. I'll be incorporating basically all of > his changes now that he's got it all ironed out. > > > > > Maybe we could coalesce efforts at this point? > > Sounds like a great idea. You could start by looking at > packages/darwin_app/Makefile, and take it from there. But beware, > there will be substantial changes as I make it platform-neutral. > > .hc > > > > > d > > > > -- > > # David Plans Casal > > > > problem.each { |day| > > assert_nil(spoon) > > } > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > ____ > > �El pueblo unido jam�s ser� vencido! > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 17:26:37 -0500 (EST) > From: Mathieu Bouchard <matju(a)artengine.ca> > Subject: Re: [PD] cumulative distribution? > To: Jacob Last <jacoblast(a)gmail.com> > Cc: pd-list <pd-list(a)iem.at>, pete mcpartlan > <petemcpartlan(a)yahoo.co.uk> > Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0511101700280.13211(a)web.artengine.ca> > Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Thu, 10 Nov 2005, Jacob Last wrote: > > In fact I don't think you can compute the cumulative gaussian > > distribution from a closed formula... > > It depends which are the allowed building blocks for the formula. If all > you have is +,-,*,/,pow,exp,log,cos, then you can't. > > then the MacLaurin expansion of integral(exp(-x*x)) is: > > Sum of x(-x*x)^k / (k+1)! for k=0 and upwards > > Which is a bitch to compute, since it needs so many terms to get it > accurate. > > However, <math.h> has a function erf() which computes exactly that, and > it's prolly a good optimisation over computing the series na�vely. > > > i think that a sigmoid function might be better suited than the > > hyperbolic tangent.... > > The hyperbolic tangent *IS* a sigmoid! > > tanh(t) = 1-2*P(-2*t) > > ____________________________________________________________________ > Mathieu Bouchard - t�l:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju > Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montr�al QC Canada > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 23:12:58 +0000 (GMT) > From: Thoralf Schulze <thoralf_schulze(a)yahoo.de> > Subject: [PD] gui stuff > To: pd-list <pd-list(a)iem.at> > Message-ID: <20051110231258.21987.qmail(a)web25108.mail.ukl.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > hi everyone, > > doing housekeeping just turned up some > installed-once-and-forgotten-about software - in this > case AVE visual editor (this is basically a gui > wrapper around the avisynth frame server, which in > turn is a scripting language for video processing). I > was stunned by its user interface - for a screenshot, > see http://puredata.info/Members/tfbb/gui/AVE/view . > Regarding the canvas, this is probably as effective as > graphical programming can be. I would like to keep the > pd-like text in the objects, however :-) > honestly: I don't know if something like this is > possible with tcl/tk (or feasable for pd), it might be > a starting point for thinking about possible > improvements of pd's ui. the Objects- and Values/Help- > boxes are definitely good ideas to make the learning > curve less steep for beginners ... > > with kinf regards, > thoralf. > > > with kind regards, > thoralf. > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > How much free photo storage do you get? Store your holiday > snaps for FREE with Yahoo! Photos http://uk.photos.yahoo.com > > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > PD-list mailing list > PD-list(a)iem.at > to manage your subscription (including un-subscription) see > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > > End of PD-list Digest, Vol 8, Issue 49 > ************************************** > -- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"

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Re: [PD] basic DSP stuff
by Chuckk Hubbard 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

I don't much care, I don't want to define my own math, I just want to know why we mix the real and imaginary parts of a product in one specific case. Z1*Z2=r1r2(cos a + isin a)(cosb + isin b) = r1r2 (cosa*cosb)-(sina*sinb) + i(sina*cosb + cosa*sinb) = r1r2 (cos(a + b) + isin(a + b)) You could indeed say that "entity of your choice = 1/0". But you need a > compelling reason why such a quantity is useful, and various proofs on how > it is derived and used. All math depends on certain assumptions and those > assumptions are different in different circumstances - aka Euclidian > geometry and topology. > > Actually, you can say 1+2 = 12 ... and if you are putting together a > string in a programming language, that makes sense and is useful, it is a > valid operation. Many object oriented programming languages let you > redefine basic symbols such as "+ - * /". But string addition wouldn't be > very helpful for doing audio math calculations. > > So if you want to define your own i, go ahead, but don't you think your > calculations are going to turn out better if you follow the normal math > definitions? > > ~David > > > What I'm getting at is that expressing rotation as complex numbers is no > > different than using cartesian coordinates. Why, when you multiply two > > points, would one of the multiples turn negative? > > I see no reason you couldn't say i = 1/0. Then 4*0*i=4. That makes as > much > > sense. > > > > -- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"

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GEM pix_movie crash
by Phillip Stearns 12 Nov '05

12 Nov '05

I'm using a Windows XP machine with pd 39. I keep crashing PD/GEM .9 whenever I try to open a movie into the pix_movie object after a different movie has already been opened into it. In the example patch on how to use pix_movie this works fine. Maybe it's my movie format (I am using AVI) or something but it doesn't seem to make much sense. I can load a movie, play it, and loop it just fine. When I try to open a different file, PD crashes. My process is to bang the openpanel object to select a file. The outlet of the openpanel is connected to the message [open $1], which is then connected to the pix_movie inlet. It loads once then crashes the second load. Please help! Thanks, Phil __________________________________ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com

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osc~ compilation errors
by Ken 11 Nov '05

11 Nov '05

i'm on fedora core 3, planetccrma. any help: [nunativs@localhost OSCx]$ make cd libOSC ; make make[1]: Entering directory `/home/nunativs/code/pd/externals/OSCx/libOSC' cc -c -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. OSC-client.c OSC-client.c: In function `OSC_writeFloatArg': OSC-client.c:360: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules ar srv libOSC.a OSC-client.o ar: creating libOSC.a a - OSC-client.o rm -f OSC-client.o cc -c -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. OSC-timetag.c ar srv libOSC.a OSC-timetag.o a - OSC-timetag.o rm -f OSC-timetag.o make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/nunativs/code/pd/externals/OSCx/libOSC' cd src ; make make[1]: Entering directory `/home/nunativs/code/pd/externals/OSCx/src' cc -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -c -o sendOSC.o sendOSC.c sendOSC.c:146: warning: no previous prototype for 'sendOSC_openbundle' sendOSC.c:208: warning: no previous prototype for 'sendOSC_disconnect' sendOSC.c:326: warning: no previous prototype for 'sendOSC_send' sendOSC.c:348: warning: no previous prototype for 'sendOSC_setup' sendOSC.c:461: warning: no previous prototype for 'InteractiveMode' sendOSC.c: In function `ParseTimeTag': sendOSC.c:554: warning: long long unsigned int format, OSCTimeTag arg (arg 3) sendOSC.c: In function `CommandLineMode': sendOSC.c:394: warning: 'numArgs' might be used uninitialized in this function sendOSC.c: At top level: sendOSC.c:105: warning: 'exitStatus' defined but not used cc -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -c -o htmsocket.o htmsocket.c cc -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -c -o OSC-system-dependent.o OSC-system-dependent.c OSC-system-dependent.c: In function `fatal_error': OSC-system-dependent.c:65: warning: implicit declaration of function `exit' cc -Wl,-export_dynamic -shared -o sendOSC.pd_linux sendOSC.o htmsocket.o OSC-system-dependent.o -lc -lm ../libOSC/libOSC.a cc -g -O2 -DUNIX -Wall -Wimplicit -Wunused -Wmissing-prototypes -O2 -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -I../libOSC -I../../pd/src -I../../../pd/src -I. -c -o dumpOSC.o dumpOSC.c dumpOSC.c:75:21: s_stuff.h: No such file or directory dumpOSC.c: In function `dumpOSC_new': dumpOSC.c:271: warning: implicit declaration of function `sys_sockerror' dumpOSC.c:283: warning: implicit declaration of function `sys_closesocket' dumpOSC.c:295: warning: implicit declaration of function `sys_addpollfn' dumpOSC.c:295: error: `t_fdpollfn' undeclared (first use in this function) dumpOSC.c:295: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once dumpOSC.c:295: error: for each function it appears in.) dumpOSC.c:295: error: syntax error before "dumpOSC_read" dumpOSC.c: In function `dumpOSC_free': dumpOSC.c:327: warning: implicit declaration of function `sys_rmpollfn' dumpOSC.c: At top level: dumpOSC.c:337: warning: no previous prototype for 'dumpOSC_setup' dumpOSC.c:496: warning: no previous prototype for 'PrintClientAddr' dumpOSC.c: In function `PrintClientAddr': dumpOSC.c:502: warning: unsigned int format, long unsigned int arg (arg 2) dumpOSC.c: In function `dumpOSC_Smessage': dumpOSC.c:695: warning: unused variable `at' dumpOSC.c:698: warning: unused variable `myargc' dumpOSC.c:699: warning: unused variable `mya' dumpOSC.c:700: warning: unused variable `myi' dumpOSC.c: In function `dumpOSC_PrintTypeTaggedArgs': dumpOSC.c:774: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules dumpOSC.c:742: warning: unused variable `myi' dumpOSC.c: In function `dumpOSC_PrintHeuristicallyTypeGuessedArgs': dumpOSC.c:875: warning: dereferencing type-punned pointer will break strict-aliasing rules dumpOSC.c:864: warning: unused variable `myi' dumpOSC.c: At top level: dumpOSC.c:350: warning: 'unixinitudp' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:376: warning: 'initudp' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:428: warning: 'closeudp' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:490: warning: 'catch_sigint' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:164: warning: 'Synthmessage' declared `static' but never defined dumpOSC.c:200: warning: 'dumpOSC_read' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:493: warning: 'sockfd' defined but not used dumpOSC.c:493: warning: 'usockfd' defined but not used make[1]: *** [dumpOSC.o] Error 1 make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/nunativs/code/pd/externals/OSCx/src' make: *** [all] Error 2 [nunativs@localhost OSCx]$

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Pd-list November 2005