Pd-list November 2005

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143 participants
298 discussions

old process still running
by Ed Kelly 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

Hi list, I'm still having problems with the shell object, the right outlet is supposed to bang when the shell has achieved it's task, but every time I use that to initiate another task (with a [bang( -- [del 100] in between) I get "old process still running" and the task remains undone. All I want to do is create a series of folders within a folder! Ed PS, I'm still having problems with my email...apologies to the list, but every time I forward one from the list, to myself, it's going to the list instead! Yahoo! - ya boo. I'll copy and paste in future! -> -> --> ---> -----> --------> -------------> r3search + praktik EK5perimenz ___________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Model Search 2005 - Find the next catwalk superstars - http://uk.news.yahoo.com/hot/model-search/

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Gem : Fullscreen on a MINI in OSX
by timon 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

Hi, Im wondering if there is any known bugs with doing Gem full screen (1024x768) on a mini in OSX 10.4-latest. Im using HC. PD 39.02 test installer - with Gem vs. 0.90 dated April 2005. What happens is the screen gets clotted with fragmented pd windows and desktop noise. I know there was an internal OSX 10.4 problem where the mini wouldnt play even dvd's at full screen. But that seems to be gone a few updates before. The noise was similar to that of the Gem prob. Any ideas? Thanks, Timon.

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Fwd: [PD] basic DSP stuff
by Charles Henry 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

I apologize to chuckk, for not sending these posts to the right place. About frequency analysis...... It gets hard to explain how we use complex numbers in frequency analysis without going to higher mathematics. Simply shifting the signal by a constant does not get rid of complex numbers! The complex numbers do not necessarily come from "conservation of energy": the complex numbers are the eigenvalues of your basic oscillator x'' + w^2 * x = 0 w is the angular frequency of oscillation, and the eigen values of the solution are i*w and -i*w (the eigenfunctions of this equation are e^iwx and e^-iwx, there is another type (the damped harmonic oscillator, which has complex rather than imaginary eigenvalues)) When we perform frequency analysis we partition up the energy in the signal into waves (with very specific phases), with distinct eigenvalues (the frequencies). The energy is directly related to the square of the magnitude of each coefficient, and the square of w. Shifting by a constant only adds more energy to the "constant" signal (w=0). The Fourier transform is at the heart of DSP for a specific reason. Any signal can be *exactly* represented through a change of basis (change of basis here means a transformation from one set of numbers to another through a one-to-one function that preserves energy (the metric)) R= set of real numbers C= set of complex numbers R2= a two-dimensional set of real numbers Everybody knows what R2 is, the x-y plane, so it's a good starting point. A distance between the origin and (x,y) is sqrt(x^2 + y^2). This is called a metric, a measure of distance. Okay, so suppose we have sqrt(x) where x is R. (I'll use "is" to denote "belongs to") For each x in R, we get back a number, which means it belongs to a "set." sqrt(x) is (0,inf), when x is (0,inf) , I'll abbrev. inf for infinity The result which produces the complex numbers is analytic continuation. When x is R, the result may or may not belong to R, but is definitely a number. When x is negative, we have a sqrt(negative number in R), which is defined as an imaginary number (just a name, still a number). again, analytic continuation: So, then we can have the sqrt(x) when x is imaginary! And the result is a number halfway inbetween the imaginary numbers and R. It is not one or the other!!! If you work this out, you can show, simply by definitions, that it is the sum of an imaginary number and a real number. Therefore, we can define the complex numbers as the sum of real and imaginary numbers. R2 is a 2-dimensional vector space, meaning that it takes two linearly independent (not the same line) vectors to span the entire space with linear combinations a*w+b*z, where w and z are vectors. Now, to make things useful, we define an inner product on R2, <w,z>= w1*z1+w2*z2 the metric, or norm, is sqrt(<w,w>) = sqrt(a^2 + b^2) A very similar thing happens when we define an inner product and a metric on C for A and B in C, <A,B>=A*(conj(B)) (conj(B) stands for conjugate of B) and the norm, or metric, is |A| = sqrt( <A, conj(A)> ) |A| = sqrt( A1^2 - i^2 * A2^2)=sqrt( A1^2 + A2^2) meaning the definition of a metric space on C is isometric (has the same norm) as the metric space defined on R2. Notice that the two spaces have different inner products, but the same norm? In R2, the inner product of two vectors (w,x) and (y,z) is <(w,x),(y,z)>= w*y + x*z In C, the inner product of w+ix and y+iz is <w+ix,y+iz>= (w+ix)*(y-iz) = (w*y + x*z) + i*(x*y - w*z) The difference between the two is: Over the set of R2, we can have perpedicular vectors which cover the space, but in C, none of the vectors are "orthogonal" to one another unless one of them is identically zero. (This result is not very interesting I think, but it includes why the product of two complex numbers is a "rotation"). The *real* result that we want comes from the analytic continuation of e^x, where x is R. e^x : x |-> (0,inf) when x is R *but* e^x : x |-> C when x is C Also, many important properties are present: z=e^x, then conj(z)=e^conj(x), for x is C cosh(x)=(e^x + e^-x)/2 cosh(ix)=cos(x) and cos(ix)=cosh(x) for x is R e^ix = cos(x) + i*sin(x), for x is R So, any number in R can be represented by e^x when x is C, and any sinusoid with any phase shift can be represented by a sum of z*e^ix + conj(z)*e^-ix To show why a signal can be exactly represented by its transform is even more tricky, and requires the definition of Hilbert spaces, the set of continuous functions C0, the polynomials, trigonometric identities on cos(n*x), and the Lebesgue integral.....I don't want to go through all the details, right now. It really is a *long* explanation. The result is: The Fourier transform is an isometry (metric preserving transform) between C^N (N complex numbers in a vector space) and C^N, where the coefficients of the transform are the relative phases of e^inx terms. The real numbers are a special case, where the first N/2 coefficents in C^N represent the phases and amplitudes, and the other ones are just complex conjugates of the first N/2. When you analyze a signal (real-valued), the complex numbers don't exist as parts of the signal or placeholders for missing energy! They are only indicators of phases of sinusoids in the frequency domain. The real place where complex values are: the eigenvalues of harmonic oscillators. -- Charles Zachary Henry anti.dazed.med Med student who needs a Mickey's

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Re: [PD] rradical
by Frank Barknecht 14 Nov '05

14 Nov '05

Hallo, hm, that gdb output somehow looks similar to a crash, people were experiencing with loading xsample and pool at the same time. You could try to move fluid~.pd_linux somewhere, where Pd cannot see it and check, if it still crashes. Ciao -- Frank Ken hat gesagt: // Ken wrote: > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > > >Oops. Hm, hard to say what's happending here or where it crashes. > >Could you try to run Pd with a debugger? It's easy: > > > >$ gdb /usr/bin/pd > >(gdb) run > > > >< do stuff until it crashes > > > > >(gdb) backtrace > >< or just "bt" > > > > >(gdb) quit > >The program is running. Exit anyway? (y or n) y > > > > > >It should give a hint on what could be wrong. > > > >Ciao > > > > > ok here's the output from the debugger starting at the point where i > loaded "rrad.tpl.pd". thanks again for the newbie coaching. > > > [New Thread -1250284624 (LWP 23349)] > OSCroute object version 1.05 by Matt Wright. pd: jdl Win32 raf. > OSCroute Copyright Â© 1999 Regents of the Univ. of California. All Rights > Reserved. > * OSC-route: float arguments are not OK. > OSCroute $1 > ... couldn't create > *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x082cae18 *** > > Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted. > [Switching to Thread -1208121664 (LWP 23342)] > 0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall () > (gdb) bt > #0 0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall () > #1 0x00b5f7d5 in raise () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #2 0x00b61149 in abort () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #3 0x00b9327a in __libc_message () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #4 0x00b9a49c in _int_malloc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #5 0x00b9bc76 in calloc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #6 0x0809f77e in getbytes () > #7 0x00000001 in ?? () > #8 0x00000034 in ?? () > #9 0xb71cad56 in flext_root_single::operator new () > from /usr/lib/pd/extra/fluid~.pd_linux > #10 0xb4f8d8f4 in flext_base_single::ItemCont::Resize () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #11 0xb4f8d9f5 in flext_base_single::ItemCont::Add () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #12 0xb4f8e250 in flext_base_single::AddMethod () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #13 0xb4f867be in flext_base_single::Setup () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #14 0xb4f7fafa in pool::__setup__ () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #15 0xb4f88151 in flext_obj_single::obj_add () > from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #16 0xb4f795ca in pool_setup () from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #17 0x080ac39e in sys_load_lib () > #18 0xbfffb8fc in ?? () > #19 0x000003e8 in ?? () > #20 0x00000001 in ?? () > #21 0x00c5f800 in __malloc_initialize_hook () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #22 0xbfffb944 in ?? () > #23 0x00c523e1 in __libc_ptyname1 () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #24 0x00000000 in ?? () > (gdb) > -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

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Re: fluid~ (and footils in general)
by Jason Plumb 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

> The "real" release is the source on Sourceforge. I don't provide > binaries or source archives anymore, those are part of the various > external packages. Yeah, I was using the CVS source before....but apparently wasn't building properly (even though things compiled ok). > I now updated the README with some more instructions: To build fluid~ > you should use the flext build system. If you have built flext from > CVS with that, it should be as simple as > > $ cd externals/footils/fluid > $ sh ../../grill/flext/build.sh pd gcc > $ sh ../../grill/flext/build.sh pd gcc install Sure enough, that worked perfectly...on the first try! I didn't see the changes reflected in the readme, though. Did you get that committed? Thanks again...fluid~ is a destroyer! Keep up the good work! -jason

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Re: [PD] rradical
by Frank Barknecht 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

Hallo Ken, (you should also keep the Pd mailing list in your CC, as this is a problem, others on the list might solve better than I can. ) Your problem now also happens in other flext externals. This could be the flext-problem, some others experienced as well. However it also could be a messed up Pd install. You write, that you use the pd-0.37 from PlanetCCRMA. I strongly recommend to ditch this and build your own, directly from CVS. 0.37 is way old, 0.39 is much better and you get the best upgrade ever for free: the [list] object. You also use two different Pd directories, one in /usr/local/lib/pd, the other in /usr/lib/pd It's better to decide to use only one directory, so you always know which is which. If you install Pd from CVS, you should also recompile the externals. You *must* recompile flext and all flext externals for this version, IIRC. Building Pd is simple, however if you check out CVS, you first have to run "autoconf" to generate the configure script, then do the usual ./configure && make && make install (Do "./configure --prefix=/usr" or "./configure --prefix=/usr/local" and always keep that same prefix for the externals. Ciao, Frank Ken hat gesagt: // Ken wrote: > Frank Barknecht wrote: > > >Hallo, > > > >hm, that gdb output somehow looks similar to a crash, people were > >experiencing with loading xsample and pool at the same time. You could > >try to move fluid~.pd_linux somewhere, where Pd cannot see it and > >check, if it still crashes. > > > >Ciao > > > > > here's what i get now removing fluid~ : > > [New Thread -1250047056 (LWP 27091)] > OSCroute object version 1.05 by Matt Wright. pd: jdl Win32 raf. > OSCroute Copyright Â© 1999 Regents of the Univ. of California. All Rights > Reserved. > * OSC-route: float arguments are not OK. > OSCroute $1 > ... couldn't create > *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x082693e8 *** > > Program received signal SIGABRT, Aborted. > [Switching to Thread -1208121664 (LWP 27084)] > 0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall () > (gdb) bt > #0 0xffffe410 in __kernel_vsyscall () > #1 0x00b5f7d5 in raise () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #2 0x00b61149 in abort () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #3 0x00b9327a in __libc_message () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #4 0x00b9a49c in _int_malloc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #5 0x00b9bc76 in calloc () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #6 0x0809f77e in getbytes () > #7 0x00000001 in ?? () > #8 0x00000034 in ?? () > #9 0xb60fbc46 in flext_root_single::operator new () from > /usr/lib/pd/extra/idelay~.pd_linux > #10 0xb4fc78f4 in flext_base_single::ItemCont::Resize () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #11 0xb4fc79f5 in flext_base_single::ItemCont::Add () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #12 0xb4fc8250 in flext_base_single::AddMethod () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #13 0xb4fc07be in flext_base_single::Setup () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #14 0xb4fb9afa in pool::__setup__ () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #15 0xb4fc2151 in flext_obj_single::obj_add () from > /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #16 0xb4fb35ca in pool_setup () from /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/pool.pd_linux > #17 0x080ac39e in sys_load_lib () > #18 0xbfffb8dc in ?? () > #19 0x000003e8 in ?? () > #20 0x00000001 in ?? () > #21 0x00c5f800 in __malloc_initialize_hook () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #22 0xbfffb924 in ?? () > #23 0x00c523e1 in __libc_ptyname1 () from /lib/tls/libc.so.6 > #24 0x00000000 in ?? () > > should i build a newer pd? i'm using planetccrma version: 0.37.1.devel > -- Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__

1 0

HTTP query
by Alexandre Quessy 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

Hi list, I was just wondering what is the most efficient way of doing a HTTP query from PD. It should look like this: GET /puredata/index.php?foo=bar HTTP/1.1 Host: www.sourcelibre.com I tried with wget and curl and it's all right, but [shell] seems to make some processes last longer than it should be... and then I cannot make many queries per minute as I would like to. I kind of remember there was an external for this, but I would prefer use builtin objects. Otherwise, I searched the list and the web, but you would agree that it's not easy to do a search about "HTTP" when all the URL on the web start with that... :-) Thanks ! aalex

5 5

fluid~ (and footils in general)
by Jason Plumb 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

So I'm trying to get fluid~ working on 0.38-4. Apparently it's part of footils, which is part of the main externals module now. I checked out externals from cvs since the "real" realeases of externals seem to be from March 2003 (is this really right???) In any case, in order to compile fluid~, I had to install flext (I tried version 0.5.0 downloaded from the website, but also tried the version in the externals/grill/flext dir) and then had to muck around with the fluid~ makefile and config file. Once I got fluid~ built and installed, pd barfs when trying to instantiate it: tried /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fluid~.pd_linux and succeeded /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fluid~.pd_linux: /usr/local/lib/pd/extra/fluid~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: _ZN16flext_obj_single7obj_addEbbbPKcS1_PFvP11flext_classEPFPS_iP5_atomEPFvP9flext_hdrEiz Any ideas? I'm using fluidsynth/libfluidsynth1/libfluidsynth-dev 1.0.6-3 via apt on Debian unstable. Thanks in advance, -jason

2 1

rradical
by Ken 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

so i installed all the externals i need, i think, having all the projects in cvs is really nice. trying to open any rradical patch even the template is giving me this error, frank? OSCroute object version 1.05 by Matt Wright. pd: jdl Win32 raf. OSCroute Copyright Â© 1999 Regents of the Univ. of California. All Rights Reserved. *** glibc detected *** malloc(): memory corruption: 0x082d7cd0 *** Pd: signal 6 pd_gui: pd process exited Aborted [nunativs@localhost ~]$

2 1

another pd question
by Ken 13 Nov '05

13 Nov '05

i'm on linux, fedora core 3, planet ccrma, which comes with *some* externals. does the pd-extended package compile on linux, or do i have to download install all the other externals i want/need by hand? (trying to run rradical at the moment). ken

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Pd-list November 2005