I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
*1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.* This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
*2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation* *3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can access, and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).
So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
*I do not think this is fair or right!*
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
- *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only closed-source
tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
- *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a linux
hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
- Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample patches *in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound, SuperCollider*, or *Pure Data*.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
*I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*
*in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. * People like *Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *
*Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,* *Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
Hello
Le 21/01/2016 20:08, William Huston a écrit :
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
Class compliant is a good technical word if I'm not wrong. I will sign your text. Thanks for bringing this topic.
Nicolas
I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every musician I know.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com wrote:
I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
*1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.* This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
*2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation* *3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can access, and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).
So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
*I do not think this is fair or right!*
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
- *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only
closed-source tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
- *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a
linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
- Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample patches *in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound, SuperCollider*, or *Pure Data*.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
*I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*
*in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. * People like *Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *
*Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,* *Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)
I think the plan should be
- Form a small committee to draft the
"*Pledge to Support Open Source Community*" with the target being *manufactures of synthesizers, controllers, and other MIDI devices. *
Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.
A general petition for all others.
If anyone wants to be on the committee to create the first draft, please contact me off-list.
Thanks!!
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones interstar@gmail.com wrote:
I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every musician I know.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com wrote:
I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
*1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.* This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
*2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation* *3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can access, and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).
So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
*I do not think this is fair or right!*
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
- *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only
closed-source tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
- *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a
linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
- Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample patches *in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound, SuperCollider*, or *Pure Data*.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
*I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*
*in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. * People like *Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *
*Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,* *Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
William,
have you thought of trying one of the "make a petition" sites, like https://www.change.org/ , http://www.thepetitionsite.com/media-arts-culture/ , .http://www.avaaz.org/en/ etc?
If one of these platforms were suitable to host it then that would definitely help.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 21:53, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)
I think the plan should be
- Form a small committee to draft the
"*Pledge to Support Open Source Community*" with the target being *manufactures of synthesizers, controllers, and other MIDI devices. *
Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.
A general petition for all others.
If anyone wants to be on the committee to create the first draft, please contact me off-list.
Thanks!!
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones interstar@gmail.com wrote:
I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every musician I know.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com wrote:
I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
*1) Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.* This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
*2) Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation* *3) Using a secret API* which only their *closed source Editor* can access, and which only runs on *Windows or MacOS*. ($$$).
So *if I want a Korg product* (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the perfect application for this!!!), *then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing*. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
*I do not think this is fair or right!*
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a *Pledge to Support Open Source Community*, which we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
- *Publish full MIDI standard. **No hidden APIs *which only
closed-source tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
- *Unbundle the hardware from the optional software*. Don't force a
linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
- Consider including *sample editors *or *performance programs *as
hackable *C programs,* *Perl *or *Python *scripts, and also *sample patches *in popular *open-source music programs *such as *CSound, SuperCollider*, or *Pure Data*.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
*I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people*
*in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing. * People like *Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, *
*Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto,* *Richard Stallman*, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Good Idea William but i always thought things like Pure Data were there SO we could develop said products. And i DO boot windows for Touch Designer but frankly little else. I took the leap and moved to Macintosh when PD was released and have always dual booted linux:Ubuntu on it.
I have also found the proprietary features are rarely "all that" I did recently on a whim buy a KARP Odyssesy but mostly because it had a CVin/out TrigI/O and GateI/O
:-)
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ________________________________ From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@mail.iem.at on behalf of phil jones interstar@gmail.com Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 6:14:15 AM To: William Huston Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open Source
William,
have you thought of trying one of the "make a petition" sites, like https://www.change.org/ , http://www.thepetitionsite.com/media-arts-culture/ , .http://www.avaaz.org/en/ etc?
If one of these platforms were suitable to host it then that would definitely help.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 21:53, William Huston <williamahuston@gmail.commailto:williamahuston@gmail.com> wrote: Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)
I think the plan should be
- Form a small committee to draft the
"Pledge to Support Open Source Community" with the target being manufactures of synthesizers, controllers, and other MIDI devices.
Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.
A general petition for all others.
If anyone wants to be on the committee to create the first draft, please contact me off-list.
Thanks!!
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones <interstar@gmail.commailto:interstar@gmail.com> wrote: I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every musician I know.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston <williamahuston@gmail.commailto:williamahuston@gmail.com> wrote: I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things like:
- Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.
This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation
Using a secret API which only their closed source Editor can access, and which only runs on Windows or MacOS. ($$$).
So if I want a Korg product (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have the perfect application for this!!!), then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
I do not think this is fair or right!
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a Pledge to Support Open Source Community, which we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
Publish full MIDI standard. No hidden APIs which only closed-source tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
Unbundle the hardware from the optional software. Don't force a linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
Consider including sample editors or performance programs as hackable C programs, Perl or Python scripts, and also sample patches in popular open-source music programs such as CSound, SuperCollider, or Pure Data.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing.
People like Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto, Richard Stallman, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
My main point is that manufactures like Korg should not have secret API's.
I have a Microkey-37, and several simple things (like how to change velocity curves, and whether LEDs are locally or remotely set) are not documented in their published MIDI implementation. They probably use SYSEX messages, but why keep it a secret? The only way to access this stuff now is either a) reverse engineer, or b) pay Microsoft/Apple for aa commercial OS and use Korg's closed-source app.
Korg also bundles software for stand-alone or VST instruments, which also only run on proprietary OS'es. So there are two solutions here:
- unbundle the software so I don't have to pay for the same softsynth each
time I purchase a controller--my preferred solution, OR 2) give us a softsynth which is open-source and runs on Linux.
Of course we Pd hackers like to write our own. :)
I'm just saying, if they force us to purchase bundled software, at least make it open source and hackable. That would add some value to me.
On Friday, January 22, 2016, Pagano, Patrick pat@digitalworlds.ufl.edu wrote:
Good Idea William but i always thought things like Pure Data were there
SO we could develop said products. And i DO boot windows for Touch Designer but frankly little else. I took the leap and moved to Macintosh when PD was released and have always dual booted linux:Ubuntu on it.
I have also found the proprietary features are rarely "all that" I did recently on a whim buy a KARP Odyssesy but mostly because it had a
CVin/out TrigI/O and GateI/O
:-)
Patrick Pagano B.S, M.F.A Audio and Projection Design Faculty Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida, USA (352)294-2020 ________________________________ From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@mail.iem.at on behalf of phil jones <
interstar@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, January 22, 2016 6:14:15 AM To: William Huston Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] Slightly OT: Goal for NAMM 2017: Pledge to Support Open
Source
William,
have you thought of trying one of the "make a petition" sites, like
https://www.change.org/ , http://www.thepetitionsite.com/media-arts-culture/ , .http://www.avaaz.org/en/ etc?
If one of these platforms were suitable to host it then that would
definitely help.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 21:53, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com
wrote:
Thanks for all who responded with early feedback :)
I think the plan should be
- Form a small committee to draft the
"Pledge to Support Open Source Community" with the target being manufactures of synthesizers, controllers, and other MIDI devices.
Recruit the Top 10 or 25 big names to sign on to the letter.
A general petition for all others.
If anyone wants to be on the committee to create the first draft, please contact me off-list.
Thanks!!
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 5:10 PM, phil jones interstar@gmail.com wrote:
I will totally sign a petition on this. And forward it to every
musician I know.
Phil
On 21 January 2016 at 17:08, William Huston williamahuston@gmail.com
wrote:
I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
I have been very upset at a certain manufacturer which I have decades
of experience owning their products.
I love their machines! But they are pissing me off by doing things
like:
- Bundle software which only runs on Proprietary Operating Systems.
This is an excuse to increase street price. Linux users who want just
the hardware are forced to pay for something they do not want and cannot use.
Publishing only a partial MIDI implementation
Using a secret API which only their closed source Editor can
access, and which only runs on Windows or MacOS. ($$$).
So if I want a Korg product (like their new Microkey Studio!!! I have
the perfect application for this!!!), then I must also pay Microsoft or Apple, in order to fully use the thing. I must also must pay a premium for software I cannot use and may not want or need.
I do not think this is fair or right!
Here's an idea:
NAMM is going on right now. This is a time when all of the
manufacturers all get together.
I think the Open Source community has a lot of clout now.
My idea is to draft a Pledge to Support Open Source Community, which
we will try to get manufacturers support for by the next 2017 NAMM.
My list so far is this:
- Publish full MIDI standard. No hidden APIs which only closed-source
tools, which only run on Windows or Mac can access.
- Unbundle the hardware from the optional software. Don't force a
linux hardware owner to pay for software he cannot use.
- Consider including sample editors or performance programs as
hackable C programs, Perl or Python scripts, and also sample patches in popular open-source music programs such as CSound, SuperCollider, or Pure Data.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing.
People like Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto, Richard Stallman, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a
campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
On Thu, Jan 21, 2016 at 02:08:23PM -0500, William Huston wrote:
I hope you all consider this an appropriate post for this list.
Does anyone want to be a co-signer on this, or have anything to add?
fundamental. I'm interested.
(better to talk about free software) we can have support from rms for sure.
thanks juan
I think it would be awesome to get the top 10-20 people in Open Source Music world to endorse this first thing.
People like Miller, Onyx Ashanti, Ico, Julius O. Smith, Servando, Katja, Alexandre, Matt, IOhannes, Cheeto, Richard Stallman, ... c'mon people, help me out...
Wow, that would pack a whallop! I think we could have a major impact on hardware manufacturers.
This is a way for me to take my complaint with Korg and make this a campaign which could help users of other H/W vendors stuff as well.
Thoughts? BH
--
May you, and all beings be happy and free from suffering :) -- ancient Buddhist Prayer (Metta)
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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