Hello,
I have a patch I'd like to run in webpd that utilises [cos~].
Could someone share the maths required to replace [cos~] as it's not currently part of webpd?
Can't get my head around it...
Many thanks,
Julian
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there. Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd? -Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas <hard.off@gmail.com> wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work? _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Replacement with Vanilla please.
Will work my up to porting...
Cheers Jonathan
On 22 August 2015 at 16:50, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there.
Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work?
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Does webpd have [table] and the cosinesum method for garrays? -Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:44 PM, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com> wrote:
Replacement with Vanilla please. Will work my up to porting... Cheers Jonathan On 22 August 2015 at 16:50, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there. Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd? -Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas <hard.off@gmail.com> wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work? _______________________________________________ Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
[table] yes (object list here: https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/OBJECTLIST.md )
not sure about cosinesum message (nice call hadn't thought of that) - will check later when back at it.
I'm presuming that there's solid reasoning on Seb's part why certain objects haven't yet been ported yet (ie they're tricky).
On 22 August 2015 at 19:31, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Does webpd have [table] and the cosinesum method for garrays?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:44 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Replacement with Vanilla please.
Will work my up to porting...
Cheers Jonathan
On 22 August 2015 at 16:50, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there.
Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work?
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
... [env~] being another
On 23 August 2015 at 10:14, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
[table] yes (object list here: https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/OBJECTLIST.md )
not sure about cosinesum message (nice call hadn't thought of that) - will check later when back at it.
I'm presuming that there's solid reasoning on Seb's part why certain objects haven't yet been ported yet (ie they're tricky).
On 22 August 2015 at 19:31, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Does webpd have [table] and the cosinesum method for garrays?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:44 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Replacement with Vanilla please.
Will work my up to porting...
Cheers Jonathan
On 22 August 2015 at 16:50, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there.
Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work?
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
2015-08-23 6:14 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
[table] yes (object list here: https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/OBJECTLIST.md )
not sure about cosinesum message (nice call hadn't thought of that) - will check later when back at it.
I'm presuming that there's solid reasoning on Seb's part why certain objects haven't yet been ported yet (ie they're tricky).
On 22 August 2015 at 19:31, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Does webpd have [table] and the cosinesum method for garrays?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 1:44 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Replacement with Vanilla please.
Will work my up to porting...
Cheers Jonathan
On 22 August 2015 at 16:50, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Webpd doesn't include every vanilla class. So I guess from Julian's question that [cos~] isn't there.
Julian-- are you looking to replace it with other vanilla objects, or are you trying to figure out how to port it to webpd?
-Jonathan
On Saturday, August 22, 2015 11:44 AM, i go bananas hard.off@gmail.com wrote:
Cos~ is vanilla pd. How does it not work?
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com
wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Can't seem to get 'cosinesum message' working with webpd
On 23 August 2015 at 21:35, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com
wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
> you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] > > just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle > input (from 0 to 1). > But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Some good stuff here, thanks people.
[osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out. I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound. Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos]. Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~].
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
Thanks all for suggestions so far,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
> > > On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < > porres@gmail.com> wrote: > >> you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] >> >> just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the >> angle input (from 0 to 1). >> > But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes > signals.. > >
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people.
[osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out. I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound. Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos]. Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~].
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
Thanks all for suggestions so far,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com > wrote:
> i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may > work... :) > > 2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com: > >> >> >> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] >>> >>> just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the >>> angle input (from 0 to 1). >>> >> But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes >> signals.. >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> > http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > >
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Hey Seb,
Good to hear from you...
Does [osc~] take arguments? In my test when I gave the patch an [osc~ 0] I got an error in the console saying '0' not understood and I presumed that was my argument being spat back.
I can't really explain why it doesn't sound right to be honest, this is why I'm here asking:).
I need to do some more coding and get back to you on that one.
Regards,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 15:10, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people.
[osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out. I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound. Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos]. Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~].
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
Thanks all for suggestions so far,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
> Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
> Alexandre & Alexandros, > > Cheers for pitching in. > > It's for a random bleepy patch. > Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good > idea though. > > On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres < > porres@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may >> work... :) >> >> 2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com >> : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] >>>> >>>> just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the >>>> angle input (from 0 to 1). >>>> >>> But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes >>> signals.. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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--
*Sébastien Piquemal*
-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
From what I recall
[osc~] is the same as [phasor~]|[cos~] So while there may be some trivial instances where you can substitute one for the other, generally you can't. For example-- imagine having some more tilde objects between the [phasor~] and the [cos~] above. In that case you cannot get the same signal using [osc~]. (Or at least it's not obvious to me how one would do that.) Furthermore, the right inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, while the inlet for [cos~] is a signal inlet. Most of this info should be in the help patches. (At least the ones I made for Pd Extended.)
-Jonathan
On Monday, August 24, 2015 10:19 AM, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Seb, Good to hear from you... Does [osc~] take arguments? In my test when I gave the patch an [osc~ 0] I got an error in the console saying '0' not understood and I presumed that was my argument being spat back. I can't really explain why it doesn't sound right to be honest, this is why I'm here asking:). I need to do some more coding and get back to you on that one. Regards, Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 15:10, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people. [osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out.I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound.Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos].Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~]. What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting. Thanks all for suggestions so far, Julian On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian, I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~]. Cheers,Joe On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]... 2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that? 2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros, Cheers for pitching in. It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though. On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :) 2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1). But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
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Clarification: when I say you can't substitute "one" for the other, I mean trying to substitute [osc~] for [cos~].
On Monday, August 24, 2015 10:29 AM, Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com> wrote:
From what I recall [osc~] is the same as [phasor~]|[cos~] So while there may be some trivial instances where you can substitute one for the other, generally you can't. For example-- imagine having some more tilde objects between the [phasor~] and the [cos~] above. In that case you cannot get the same signal using [osc~]. (Or at least it's not obvious to me how one would do that.) Furthermore, the right inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, while the inlet for [cos~] is a signal inlet. Most of this info should be in the help patches. (At least the ones I made for Pd Extended.)
-Jonathan
On Monday, August 24, 2015 10:19 AM, Julian Brooks <jbeezez@gmail.com> wrote:
Hey Seb, Good to hear from you... Does [osc~] take arguments? In my test when I gave the patch an [osc~ 0] I got an error in the console saying '0' not understood and I presumed that was my argument being spat back. I can't really explain why it doesn't sound right to be honest, this is why I'm here asking:). I need to do some more coding and get back to you on that one. Regards, Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 15:10, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people. [osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out.I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound.Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos].Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~]. What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting. Thanks all for suggestions so far, Julian On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian, I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~]. Cheers,Joe On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]... 2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that? 2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros, Cheers for pitching in. It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though. On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :) 2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1). But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
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Jonathan's right,
In Pd (vanilla 0.46-4 at least) both [cos~] and [osc~] use the same cos lookup table. Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'. Therefore there shouldn't be any difference between [phasor~] -> [cos~] and [osc~] if the phase is equal.
Check the attached patch, I can't hear any difference when toggling between the two.
@Seb, would it be possible for you to implement [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 15:32, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list < pd-list@lists.iem.at> wrote:
Clarification: when I say you can't substitute "one" for the other, I mean trying to substitute [osc~] for [cos~].
On Monday, August 24, 2015 10:29 AM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
From what I recall
[osc~]
is the same as
[phasor~] | [cos~]
So while there may be some trivial instances where you can substitute one for the other, generally you can't. For example-- imagine having some more tilde objects between the [phasor~] and the [cos~] above. In that case you cannot get the same signal using [osc~]. (Or at least it's not obvious to me how one would do that.)
Furthermore, the right inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, while the inlet for [cos~] is a signal inlet.
Most of this info should be in the help patches. (At least the ones I made for Pd Extended.)
-Jonathan
On Monday, August 24, 2015 10:19 AM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hey Seb,
Good to hear from you...
Does [osc~] take arguments? In my test when I gave the patch an [osc~ 0] I got an error in the console saying '0' not understood and I presumed that was my argument being spat back.
I can't really explain why it doesn't sound right to be honest, this is why I'm here asking:).
I need to do some more coding and get back to you on that one.
Regards,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 15:10, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people.
[osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out. I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound. Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos]. Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~].
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
Thanks all for suggestions so far,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com
wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
Alexandre & Alexandros,
Cheers for pitching in.
It's for a random bleepy patch. Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good idea though.
On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com wrote:
i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may work... :)
2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com:
On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com
wrote:
you can treat [osc~] as [cos~]
just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the angle input (from 0 to 1).
But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes signals..
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On 08/24/2015 05:30 PM, Joe White wrote:
In Pd (vanilla 0.46-4 at least) both [cos~] and [osc~] use the same cos lookup table. Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'. Therefore there shouldn't be any difference between [phasor~] -> [cos~] and [osc~] if the phase is equal.
i think this is exactly what jonathan was trying to say.
whatever you can do with [osc~], can be made with [phasor~]+[cos~]. but you can do things with [phasor~]+[cos~] that is impossible with plain [osc~].
fgmrdsa IOhannes
can you send me the patch so I can hear the difference?
there's no argument, but you can use loadbang with a message...
2015-08-24 11:10 GMT-03:00 s p sebpiq@gmail.com:
Hi Julian,
I've never used [cos~], can you explain to me why an [osc~] with the correct phase cannot do the trick?
Cheers
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 5:03 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Some good stuff here, thanks people.
[osc~] doesn't appear to take arguments so that's out. I don't doubt Alexandre's ears or thoroughness but in this instance,when replacing [cos~] with [osc~] there's a big difference in the sound. Alexandros - thanks for the sketch, yes it does make sense, webpd has no [until] or [cos]. Joe- nice implementation, again unfortunately there's no [abs~] or [wrap~].
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
Thanks all for suggestions so far,
Julian
On 24 August 2015 at 10:30, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Julian,
I've attached an optimised implementation for [cos~] that we've been using for Heavy. It's an approximate taylor series expansion but it should be much faster than just using cosf(). Hopefully webpd supports [abs~] and [wrap~].
Cheers, Joe
On 24 August 2015 at 09:18, Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com wrote:
what about this?
[table_size( | [until] | [f]x[+ 1] | [t f f]__________ | | [/ table_size] | | | [* twoPi] | | | [cos] | | | [tabwrite table name]
well, ASCII patches don't look so good, but I hope you get the picture.
On Mon, Aug 24, 2015 at 9:29 AM, Alexandre Torres Porres < porres@gmail.com> wrote:
cause I made some tests, [osc~] will give the same result as [cos~]...
2015-08-24 3:26 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
> Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after
how is that?
2015-08-23 17:35 GMT-03:00 Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com:
> Alexandre & Alexandros, > > Cheers for pitching in. > > It's for a random bleepy patch. > Unfortunately [osc~] doesn't have the tonal quality I'm after - good > idea though. > > On 23 August 2015 at 20:53, Alexandre Torres Porres < > porres@gmail.com> wrote: > >> i do realize that, but who knows what he needs this for, it may >> work... :) >> >> 2015-08-23 16:37 GMT-03:00 Alexandros Drymonitis adrcki@gmail.com >> : >> >>> >>> >>> On Sun, Aug 23, 2015 at 8:04 PM, Alexandre Torres Porres < >>> porres@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> you can treat [osc~] as [cos~] >>>> >>>> just give it a frequency of "0" and use the phase inlet as the >>>> angle input (from 0 to 1). >>>> >>> But the phase inlet of [osc~] is a control inlet, and [cos~] takes >>> signals.. >>> >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >
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On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'
Oh right! Makes sense ...
I believe [cos~] and [abs~] could both be implemented by using Web Audio API's WaveShaperNode. The closest example is [clip~] implementation which you can find here : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L892
[wrap~] on the other hand can't be implemented :'( or it could, but with a ScriptProcessorNode, which means it would be slow, and I don't want to go into doing this for the moment...
As Chris suggested, I'd be super happy to get a pull request (with tests) ... if you feel that you can pull it, otherwise I can do it.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
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Hi Seb (and Chris!),
Implementation of classes is a bit beyond me atm (willing to learn though:).
If there's a walkthrough I'd be happy to get involved, though I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just implement them. Always happy to help with testing if that's helpful.
[cos~] would be super-useful, as would [env~] or is there a WebPd-Vanilla equivalent I'm not getting?
Appreciate you guys getting involved, nice one.
Regards,
Julian
On 25 August 2015 at 06:35, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'
Oh right! Makes sense ...
I believe [cos~] and [abs~] could both be implemented by using Web Audio API's WaveShaperNode. The closest example is [clip~] implementation which you can find here : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L892
[wrap~] on the other hand can't be implemented :'( or it could, but with a ScriptProcessorNode, which means it would be slow, and I don't want to go into doing this for the moment...
As Chris suggested, I'd be super happy to get a pull request (with tests) ... if you feel that you can pull it, otherwise I can do it.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
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No worries :)
I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just
implement them.
Yes ... I'll implement [osc~] and [env~] (not sure I can, but I'll try) today.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb (and Chris!),
Implementation of classes is a bit beyond me atm (willing to learn though:).
If there's a walkthrough I'd be happy to get involved, though I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just implement them. Always happy to help with testing if that's helpful.
[cos~] would be super-useful, as would [env~] or is there a WebPd-Vanilla equivalent I'm not getting?
Appreciate you guys getting involved, nice one.
Regards,
Julian
On 25 August 2015 at 06:35, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'
Oh right! Makes sense ...
I believe [cos~] and [abs~] could both be implemented by using Web Audio API's WaveShaperNode. The closest example is [clip~] implementation which you can find here : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L892
[wrap~] on the other hand can't be implemented :'( or it could, but with a ScriptProcessorNode, which means it would be slow, and I don't want to go into doing this for the moment...
As Chris suggested, I'd be super happy to get a pull request (with tests) ... if you feel that you can pull it, otherwise I can do it.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
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-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
Yay! Mad skills[z]:)
Cheers Seb
On 25 August 2015 at 07:43, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
No worries :)
I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just
implement them.
Yes ... I'll implement [osc~] and [env~] (not sure I can, but I'll try) today.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb (and Chris!),
Implementation of classes is a bit beyond me atm (willing to learn though:).
If there's a walkthrough I'd be happy to get involved, though I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just implement them. Always happy to help with testing if that's helpful.
[cos~] would be super-useful, as would [env~] or is there a WebPd-Vanilla equivalent I'm not getting?
Appreciate you guys getting involved, nice one.
Regards,
Julian
On 25 August 2015 at 06:35, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'
Oh right! Makes sense ...
I believe [cos~] and [abs~] could both be implemented by using Web Audio API's WaveShaperNode. The closest example is [clip~] implementation which you can find here : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L892
[wrap~] on the other hand can't be implemented :'( or it could, but with a ScriptProcessorNode, which means it would be slow, and I don't want to go into doing this for the moment...
As Chris suggested, I'd be super happy to get a pull request (with tests) ... if you feel that you can pull it, otherwise I can do it.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
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-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
--
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-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or [env~] with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not a concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of WebPd.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 9:50 AM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Yay! Mad skills[z]:)
Cheers Seb
On 25 August 2015 at 07:43, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
No worries :)
I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just
implement them.
Yes ... I'll implement [osc~] and [env~] (not sure I can, but I'll try) today.
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 9:20 AM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb (and Chris!),
Implementation of classes is a bit beyond me atm (willing to learn though:).
If there's a walkthrough I'd be happy to get involved, though I'm aware it would take more time to set up a tutorial than to just implement them. Always happy to help with testing if that's helpful.
[cos~] would be super-useful, as would [env~] or is there a WebPd-Vanilla equivalent I'm not getting?
Appreciate you guys getting involved, nice one.
Regards,
Julian
On 25 August 2015 at 06:35, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
Only [osc~] is a signal generator, and [cos~] the raw 'lookup'
Oh right! Makes sense ...
I believe [cos~] and [abs~] could both be implemented by using Web Audio API's WaveShaperNode. The closest example is [clip~] implementation which you can find here : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L892
[wrap~] on the other hand can't be implemented :'( or it could, but with a ScriptProcessorNode, which means it would be slow, and I don't want to go into doing this for the moment...
As Chris suggested, I'd be super happy to get a pull request (with tests) ... if you feel that you can pull it, otherwise I can do it.
Cheers
On Tue, Aug 25, 2015 at 5:53 AM, Chris McCormick chris@mccormick.cx wrote:
On 24/08/15 22:03, Julian Brooks wrote:
What I do think from the hints and suggestions given is that I've got enough to be getting on with to make something approximately close and hopefully interesting.
You could also implement cos~ in WebPd and submit a PR to seb. Here are osc~ and phasor~ for your reference:
https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/blob/master/lib/objects/dsp.js#L90
Cheers,
Chris.
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-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
--
*Sébastien Piquemal*
-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or [env~] with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not a concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
Hi Seb,
Thanks for having a go. While absolutely agreeing with IOhannes, is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Regards,
Julian]
On 26 August 2015 at 09:36, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or [env~] with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not a concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of
WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
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I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode.
Here's to hoping for Audio Worker Nodes aye :(
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the ScriptProcessorNode? For something simple like abs~ or wrap~ is performance *that *drastically worse?
On 26 August 2015 at 09:53, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb,
Thanks for having a go. While absolutely agreeing with IOhannes, is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Regards,
Julian]
On 26 August 2015 at 09:36, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or [env~] with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not a concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of
WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
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since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a
table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
@IOhannes yes that's an option. Unfortunately, table lookups are not that fast in Web Audio API ... and they have some bugs in firefox. In fact there isn't even an object designed specifically for this. I have to use this bloody WaveShaperNode ( http://webaudio.github.io/web-audio-api/#WaveShaperNode) and a few hacks. Web Audio API is really hopeless at times.
is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
@Julian, [abs~] would be easy, [wrap~] isn't possible with nodes once again...
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the
ScriptProcessorNode?
@Joe, I haven't made any benchmark, but from my experience the performance is very very poor for ScriptProcessorNodes. I have made some tests a while ago on a rather slow smartphone : while I could run several dozen native BufferSourceNodes (interpolated sample playback) without any problem, a single ScriptProcessorNode running a rather simple effect would make the whole page choke, and lots of audio glitches ... It is no wonder when you know that native nodes are optimized C++ running in a separate thread, while ScriptProcessorNode is JavaScript, running in the main thread of the page (which also does graphics, user events and pretty much everything else)
I am also looking forward to AudioWorkerNodes!!! But it has been a rather slow process ... And then when they arrive, there will be a question, which is whether it is more performant to implement the whole DSP in a single AudioWorkerNode (and forget about native nodes altogether), or a mixed solution which uses native nodes whenever possible and AudioWorkers when not. So the future is really uncertain. For this reason I plan to restructure WebPd so that it can support different distributions, with different implementations or different objects. So that it would be possible to choose between one or the other solution easily. Here are the tasks for the next milestone 0.4.0 which I plan to finish for end of September : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0....
So @Julian, I'll go with the [osc] + [until] solution. Meanwhile, if you don't wanna wait, you can also fill-up the table with Pd, and save the table contents in the patch. Then just do table lookup as he suggested.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode.
Here's to hoping for Audio Worker Nodes aye :(
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the ScriptProcessorNode? For something simple like abs~ or wrap~ is performance *that *drastically worse?
On 26 August 2015 at 09:53, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb,
Thanks for having a go. While absolutely agreeing with IOhannes, is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Regards,
Julian]
On 26 August 2015 at 09:36, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or [env~] with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not a concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of
WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
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Thanks for the info Seb - will do.
On 26 August 2015 at 11:52, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a
table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
@IOhannes yes that's an option. Unfortunately, table lookups are not that fast in Web Audio API ... and they have some bugs in firefox. In fact there isn't even an object designed specifically for this. I have to use this bloody WaveShaperNode ( http://webaudio.github.io/web-audio-api/#WaveShaperNode) and a few hacks. Web Audio API is really hopeless at times.
is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
@Julian, [abs~] would be easy, [wrap~] isn't possible with nodes once again...
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the
ScriptProcessorNode?
@Joe, I haven't made any benchmark, but from my experience the performance is very very poor for ScriptProcessorNodes. I have made some tests a while ago on a rather slow smartphone : while I could run several dozen native BufferSourceNodes (interpolated sample playback) without any problem, a single ScriptProcessorNode running a rather simple effect would make the whole page choke, and lots of audio glitches ... It is no wonder when you know that native nodes are optimized C++ running in a separate thread, while ScriptProcessorNode is JavaScript, running in the main thread of the page (which also does graphics, user events and pretty much everything else)
I am also looking forward to AudioWorkerNodes!!! But it has been a rather slow process ... And then when they arrive, there will be a question, which is whether it is more performant to implement the whole DSP in a single AudioWorkerNode (and forget about native nodes altogether), or a mixed solution which uses native nodes whenever possible and AudioWorkers when not. So the future is really uncertain. For this reason I plan to restructure WebPd so that it can support different distributions, with different implementations or different objects. So that it would be possible to choose between one or the other solution easily. Here are the tasks for the next milestone 0.4.0 which I plan to finish for end of September : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0....
So @Julian, I'll go with the [osc] + [until] solution. Meanwhile, if you don't wanna wait, you can also fill-up the table with Pd, and save the table contents in the patch. Then just do table lookup as he suggested.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode.
Here's to hoping for Audio Worker Nodes aye :(
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the ScriptProcessorNode? For something simple like abs~ or wrap~ is performance *that *drastically worse?
On 26 August 2015 at 09:53, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb,
Thanks for having a go. While absolutely agreeing with IOhannes, is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Regards,
Julian]
On 26 August 2015 at 09:36, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or
[env~]
with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is not
a
concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of
WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
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--
*Sébastien Piquemal*
-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
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Alright! I've added [until], [cos], [sin], [tan], [atan], [log], [exp], [sqrt], [abs] to WebPd. Please tell me if you have any problem! Also please share your experiments when you're done ;)
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 2:51 PM, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks for the info Seb - will do.
On 26 August 2015 at 11:52, s p sebpiq@gmail.com wrote:
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a
table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
@IOhannes yes that's an option. Unfortunately, table lookups are not that fast in Web Audio API ... and they have some bugs in firefox. In fact there isn't even an object designed specifically for this. I have to use this bloody WaveShaperNode ( http://webaudio.github.io/web-audio-api/#WaveShaperNode) and a few hacks. Web Audio API is really hopeless at times.
is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
@Julian, [abs~] would be easy, [wrap~] isn't possible with nodes once again...
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the
ScriptProcessorNode?
@Joe, I haven't made any benchmark, but from my experience the performance is very very poor for ScriptProcessorNodes. I have made some tests a while ago on a rather slow smartphone : while I could run several dozen native BufferSourceNodes (interpolated sample playback) without any problem, a single ScriptProcessorNode running a rather simple effect would make the whole page choke, and lots of audio glitches ... It is no wonder when you know that native nodes are optimized C++ running in a separate thread, while ScriptProcessorNode is JavaScript, running in the main thread of the page (which also does graphics, user events and pretty much everything else)
I am also looking forward to AudioWorkerNodes!!! But it has been a rather slow process ... And then when they arrive, there will be a question, which is whether it is more performant to implement the whole DSP in a single AudioWorkerNode (and forget about native nodes altogether), or a mixed solution which uses native nodes whenever possible and AudioWorkers when not. So the future is really uncertain. For this reason I plan to restructure WebPd so that it can support different distributions, with different implementations or different objects. So that it would be possible to choose between one or the other solution easily. Here are the tasks for the next milestone 0.4.0 which I plan to finish for end of September : https://github.com/sebpiq/WebPd/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone%3A0....
So @Julian, I'll go with the [osc] + [until] solution. Meanwhile, if you don't wanna wait, you can also fill-up the table with Pd, and save the table contents in the patch. Then just do table lookup as he suggested.
On Wed, Aug 26, 2015 at 12:24 PM, Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com wrote:
I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode.
Here's to hoping for Audio Worker Nodes aye :(
Out of curiosity how are the native nodes different from using the ScriptProcessorNode? For something simple like abs~ or wrap~ is performance *that *drastically worse?
On 26 August 2015 at 09:53, Julian Brooks jbeezez@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Seb,
Thanks for having a go. While absolutely agreeing with IOhannes, is it the same situation with [abs~] and [wrap~]?
Regards,
Julian]
On 26 August 2015 at 09:36, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
On 2015-08-26 10:25, s p wrote:
Hmm ... actually I got carried away. I can't implement [cos~] or
[env~]
with native web audio API nodes. I'll have to use a slow ScriptProcessorNode. So if performance is
not a
concern for you I'll do it, but I won't integrate it to the core of
WebPd.
since it's really easy to build [cos~] with writing [cos] values to a table¹, wouldn't it make sense to add [cos] and [until] to the WebPd core?
fgmsdt IOhannes
¹ assuming that table lookups in WebPd are as blindingly fast as anyhwere else.
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--
*Sébastien Piquemal*
-----* @sebpiq* ----- http://github.com/sebpiq ----- http://funktion.fm
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Alexandre Torres Porres -
Alexandros Drymonitis -
Chris McCormick -
i go bananas -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
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Joe White -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Julian Brooks -
s p