Hello,
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ? In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
Ciao,
Jean Jacques http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/duclaux/blog/
Well, if you're going to use Linux, buy a PC. Installing Linux on a Mac these days is a bit redundant seeing as MacOSX is *ix based.
Pall ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 12:02 PM Subject: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
Hello,
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ? In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
Ciao,
Jean Jacques http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/duclaux/blog/
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
I read:
Well, if you're going to use Linux, buy a PC. Installing Linux on a Mac these days is a bit redundant seeing as MacOSX is *ix based.
what? you must be using windows then.
and the orginal question:
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ?
linux will be easier to get running on a pc, the pc will likely be cheaper for the same cpu power, a lot of programs have intel assembly optimizations but not altivec.
I happily run debian on my powerbook (and don't even ever boot into osx) all the powersaving/sleep stuff works amazingly well (a total mess on my vaio f.i.) just make sure you get an ati based one. Battery life is very acceptable (again probably 3 minutes on my vaio) and of course linux runs a lot faster than osx.
In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
if performance/price ratio is your top concern get a pc
regards,
x
I run Linux redhat7.3 on my vaio, it took quite some tinkering to get everything to work. but fancy pre-compiled nando (planet ccrma helped alot.), but i ended up with a custom private kernel with several patches. I still cannot gain full functionality from my 2|6 soundcard in any platform with pd -Linux or not. The portaudio asio still only allows matching ins/outs. Alsa allowed me to use my MIdiMan2x2 after more fussing.
OSX on the other hand found everything and I am slowly crossing APPS that were "Only Linux" rather quickly these days PowerPV, PVNation, Cecilia,Amber,PVC,STK,csound, etc..all work in oSX with the same speed pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always been a little shakey. Not too mention Video Editing There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO Cinelerra & Broadcast are a maze. Main Actor is just a damn rip off and a bunch of thieves. OSX comes with iMovie yet i digress
The main thing you want with a machine is what you want with anything really. in my opinion - Full Functionality. Right now that seems to be OS X.
Pat
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-admin@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-admin@iem.at]On Behalf Of CK Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 10:25 AM To: Pall Thayer Cc: Jean Jacques; pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
I read:
Well, if you're going to use Linux, buy a PC. Installing Linux on a Mac these days is a bit redundant seeing as MacOSX is *ix based.
what? you must be using windows then.
and the orginal question:
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ?
linux will be easier to get running on a pc, the pc will likely be cheaper for the same cpu power, a lot of programs have intel assembly optimizations but not altivec.
I happily run debian on my powerbook (and don't even ever boot into osx) all the powersaving/sleep stuff works amazingly well (a total mess on my vaio f.i.) just make sure you get an ati based one. Battery life is very acceptable (again probably 3 minutes on my vaio) and of course linux runs a lot faster than osx.
In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
if performance/price ratio is your top concern get a pc
regards,
x
-- chris@lo-res.org Postmodernism is german romanticism with better http://pilot.fm/ special effects. (Jeff Keuss / via ctheory.com)
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 11:31:31AM -0500, shreeswifty wrote:
I run Linux redhat7.3 on my vaio it took quite some tinkering to get everything to work.
Sometime it's easier to upgrade than patching an old system. But the time you spent was good investment.
There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO
Kino (http://kino.schirmacher.de/). It really works. Combined with good encoding tools (mencoder, transcode), the results are often better than with proprietary software.
The main thing you want with a machine is what you want with anything really. in my opinion - Full Functionality. Right now that seems to be OS X.
For a skilled user, Gnu/Linux is easier and more functionnal than OSX. There's no such thing as full functionnality, and things evolves... -- Marc
Hi Pat,
shreeswifty wrote:
There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO
Have you looked at Jahshaka? It seems like the most "usable" video editor/processor going right now, and is in heavy development still. Worth a try...
Best, D.
derek holzer wrote:
Hi Pat,
shreeswifty wrote:
There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO
Have you looked at Jahshaka? It seems like the most "usable" video editor/processor going right now, and is in heavy development still. Worth a try...
Looks like it rocks. They have this interesting write up about apple too ;)
http://www.jahshaka.com/news/appled.html
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 03:43:02AM +0900, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
Looks like it rocks.
It is impressive. And it compiled without a hitch on Mandrake 9.1.
They have this interesting write up about apple too ;) http://www.jahshaka.com/news/appled.html
If this is true, then it shows how Apple is keeping artists captive by controlling vertical markets. Apple is basically a design company doing hardware/software integration, with a "cool" monopolistic attitude. If Jahshaka gets popular enough, they'll eventually cooperate. :-)
-- Marc
Hallo, Marc Lavallée hat gesagt: // Marc Lavallée wrote:
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 03:43:02AM +0900, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
They have this interesting write up about apple too ;) http://www.jahshaka.com/news/appled.html
If this is true, then it shows how Apple is keeping artists captive by controlling vertical markets. Apple is basically a design company doing hardware/software integration, with a "cool" monopolistic attitude. If Jahshaka gets popular enough, they'll eventually cooperate. :-)
This bit from that write-up impressed me:
"[...] who the hell wants to write software for a platform when your biggest competition is the company that owns the platform?"
Ups. Apple has Emagic.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 01:43 PM, Patrick Shirkey wrote:
derek holzer wrote:
Hi Pat, shreeswifty wrote:
There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO
Have you looked at Jahshaka? It seems like the most "usable" video editor/processor going right now, and is in heavy development still. Worth a try... http://www.jahshaka.com/
Looks like it rocks. They have this interesting write up about apple too ;)
...uh, I don't think there are too many companies that "embrace" any old open source developer that comes along...I mean, when he mentioned wanting developer support, that could be viewed as saying "please help me port this to your platform"...I ported jahshaka to OSX back in the summer (as ports go, it was very easy, which credits jah's programming skills), and I can understand why apple isn't interested: there's really not a lot to it (yet), at least compared to the possibilities available with pd/GEM...plus, it's heavily based on trolltech's Qt, so why would apple want to get involved with that? I really think he has unrealistic expectations...
my two cents, jamie
Hallo, shreeswifty hat gesagt: // shreeswifty wrote:
pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always been a little shakey.
Well, this is, becaus recently developers did a lot of optimizing work for Gem on Altivec-enabled processors, IIR. Maybe the next day someone comes along, that does the same for x86? You'll never know. But this is the way, free software development works: Someone just does something sometime when that someone needs it. But this happens all the time, and without upgrade costs.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
i am sorry geunter, that came out wrong. I shoudl have said VERY difficult for soemone new to linux to get to work properly. I thought i was ok but had to resort to .rpms for GEM linux.
Please do not take offense.
Patrick
On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 06:01 PM, guenter geiger wrote:
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, shreeswifty wrote:
pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always been a little shakey.
:(
hurts a bit.
Guenter
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem under linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "guenter geiger" geiger@xdv.org To: "shreeswifty" bigswift@ufl.edu Cc: "CK" x@meta.lo-res.org; "Pall Thayer" palli@pallit.lhi.is; "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr; pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 6:01 PM Subject: RE: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, shreeswifty wrote:
pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always
been a
little shakey.
:(
hurts a bit.
Guenter
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
i will have to re-asses it then and try to re-install it all. previous attempts lead to .rpms continuing apologies to geunter.
Patrick
On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 10:58 AM, B. Bogart wrote:
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem under linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "guenter geiger" geiger@xdv.org To: "shreeswifty" bigswift@ufl.edu Cc: "CK" x@meta.lo-res.org; "Pall Thayer" palli@pallit.lhi.is; "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr; pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 6:01 PM Subject: RE: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, shreeswifty wrote:
pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always
been a
little shakey.
:(
hurts a bit.
Guenter
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, Patrick Pagano wrote:
i will have to re-asses it then and try to re-install it all. previous attempts lead to .rpms continuing apologies to geunter.
accepted, I am a sorry about my whining reaction . It is pretty clear that your impression wasn't an invention, but it is based on your perception of the situation.
I hope I didn't discourage people to complain about bugs ...
Guenter
Patrick
On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 10:58 AM, B. Bogart wrote:
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem under linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "guenter geiger" geiger@xdv.org To: "shreeswifty" bigswift@ufl.edu Cc: "CK" x@meta.lo-res.org; "Pall Thayer" palli@pallit.lhi.is; "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr; pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 6:01 PM Subject: RE: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
On Sun, 14 Dec 2003, shreeswifty wrote:
pd-GEM on OSX is pretty darn cool too, while pd-Gem linux has always
been a
little shakey.
:(
hurts a bit.
Guenter
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
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On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 10:58:44AM -0500, B. Bogart wrote:
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem under linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
my user experience is when i use pd with gem from ccrma with a redhat9.0 it produce a segmentation fault quite often (at most 10min before a crash) just by using the examples provided by gem.
can you describe how you succeed to have it working reliably ?
I don't think I'm doing anything special, I did compile from sources, not using a package...
What speciffically is crashing for you? Random or repeatable? What examples? lemme know and I'll try here. (did you check where the crash occurs with gdb?)
I get a few unrepeatable segfaults in gem CVS, but I can never reproduce them...
B.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerome Etienne" jme@off.net To: "B. Bogart" ben@ekran.org Cc: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Monday, December 15, 2003 12:17 PM Subject: reliability of gem on linux (Re: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD)
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 10:58:44AM -0500, B. Bogart wrote:
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem
under
linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
my user experience is when i use pd with gem from ccrma with a redhat9.0 it produce a segmentation fault quite often (at most 10min before a crash) just by using the examples provided by gem.
can you describe how you succeed to have it working reliably ?
Posting crash logs to the list would greatly help in tracking down the source of these problems.
thanks cgc
Quoting Jerome Etienne jme@off.net:
On Mon, Dec 15, 2003 at 10:58:44AM -0500, B. Bogart wrote:
This is just not true, I've only had stability problems with CVS gem
under
linux, 86 and 87 run without problems. I've had a 87 process running for over 5000cpu hours! no crashes.
my user experience is when i use pd with gem from ccrma with a redhat9.0 it produce a segmentation fault quite often (at most 10min before a crash) just by using the examples provided by gem.
can you describe how you succeed to have it working reliably ?
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
Not too mention Video Editing There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO Cinelerra & Broadcast are a maze.
true, but have you tried LiVeS :: http://ww.xs4all.nl/~salsaman/ ??
there was also this workshop on open source video tools that might be of interest to read : www.piksel.no
cheers, sevy
On Sunday, December 14, 2003, at 06:01 PM, Yves Degoyon wrote:
Not too mention Video Editing
There is no real workable free Linux video editor IMHO Cinelerra & Broadcast are a maze.
true, but have you tried LiVeS :: http://ww.xs4all.nl/~salsaman/ ??
there was also this workshop on open source video tools that might be of interest to read : www.piksel.no
...just to add another link, check out:
http://veejay.sourceforge.net/
l8r, jamie
Thank you Pall, Marc and CK for your answers. I'll get a pc and a install a Debian in it.
I'm leaving max Msp for the world of Open Source !!!
: )
Best salutations,
Jean Jacques http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/duclaux/blog/
Quoting CK x@meta.lo-res.org:
a lot of programs have intel assembly optimizations but not altivec.
and of course linux runs a lot faster than osx.
That's completely contradictory information, and the latter statement is patently false. Perhaps you meant to say that some Linux window managers draw windows faster on your old powerbook compared to OSX on the same hardware? OSX takes more and better advantage of available hardware resources like SIMD and 3D acceleration than any consumer OS I've ever seen. Run GEM on a G4 in Linux then OSX, the performance disparity will be huge, and not in favor of Linux. The reason why PPC Linux isn't a smart choice on recent Macs isn't because they are both Unix based OSes - it's due to the fact that you basically throw away nearly all the hardware advantages you paid for when buying the Mac!
cgc
On Sun, Dec 14, 2003 at 01:02:11PM +0100, Jean Jacques wrote:
I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ? In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
Price/performance is less important than compatibility/usability, unless you want to start hacking. Mac => OSX, Linux => PC. Get a PC. -- Marc
Hello Jean,
I went through a similar thing a couple months back specing a new laptop.
I found the powerbook was the best laptop for the size, and performance I could find.
There are faster PC laptops with better graphics but none so portable.
But really it depends on what your doing with PD! I'm using it for Gem stuff, so a mac was a good choice, also I wanted a great graphics card and the radeon mobility cards (9600) are far better than the closest nvidia ones (fx5650) Some reviews have published numbers showing the ati card to be twice as fast in some areas.
On the other hand I use pd/Gem under linux exclusively for installations. With OSX lots of unix stuff can be done with OSX, but I'd prefer to mess with such things are running X without a window manager, etc..! In my experience gem 87 under linux is very stable. I've had an installation running for over 100 days without crashes or reboots required.
looking around the list it seems that there are audio performance issues with OSX...
B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:02 AM Subject: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
Hello,
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ? In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
Ciao,
Jean Jacques http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/duclaux/blog/
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
what flavor of linux ben? .rpms or source? firewire or webcam? these things are interesting to me for sure. Most of my linux stuff of late has been admittedly :-) Access Grid and VRVS.
On Monday, December 15, 2003, at 10:29 AM, B. Bogart wrote:
Hello Jean,
I went through a similar thing a couple months back specing a new laptop.
I found the powerbook was the best laptop for the size, and performance I could find.
There are faster PC laptops with better graphics but none so portable.
But really it depends on what your doing with PD! I'm using it for Gem stuff, so a mac was a good choice, also I wanted a great graphics card and the radeon mobility cards (9600) are far better than the closest nvidia ones (fx5650) Some reviews have published numbers showing the ati card to be twice as fast in some areas.
On the other hand I use pd/Gem under linux exclusively for installations. With OSX lots of unix stuff can be done with OSX, but I'd prefer to mess with such things are running X without a window manager, etc..! In my experience gem 87 under linux is very stable. I've had an installation running for over 100 days without crashes or reboots required.
looking around the list it seems that there are audio performance issues with OSX...
B. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jean Jacques" jj@wanadoo.fr To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2003 7:02 AM Subject: [PD] (Facts Please !) a mac or pc with Linux for PD
Hello,
i do not want to unleash a sterile discussion about mac anc pc ! I just would like to know what king of hardware should i buy to install Linux on a laptop and run PD ? In terms of performance/price what should i buy a mac or pc ?
Ciao,
Jean Jacques http://tecfa.unige.ch/perso/staf/duclaux/blog/
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
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cgc＠humboldtblvd.com -
CK -
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Frank Barknecht -
guenter geiger -
Jean Jacques -
Jerome Etienne -
Marc Lavallée -
Pall Thayer -
Patrick Pagano -
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shreeswifty
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tigital＠mac.com -
Yves Degoyon