On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:56:05 -0500 (EST) Karl MacMillan karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu wrote:

# Micheal, # # Really the only way to fix this problem is to adapt PD to use ASIO # drivers. This was mentioned recently on the list, but the problem with # the normal windows sound drivers is that they go through a kernel mixer # (called kmixer - this allows more than one app to access a sound card # simultaneously) that adds a minimum of 30ms. It seems that a lot of pro # cards circumvent this with their ASIO drivers. # # The best solution is linux, but then you don't get to use your layla # because the manufacturer is not nice. Of course, if you are willing to # buy a macintosh you could just be an RME hammerfall card instead, install # linux + low-latency kernel, and enjoy 5ms latency regardless of disk or # cpu load. As for the Macintosh latency I think that the 6ms measurement # is not a real measure of end to end latency - I have never seen the # Max/MSP machines that I have access to (G3s with MOTU 2408) get anything # near that because of the complete inadequacy of the MacOS in all regards # (sorry about that comment - I couldn't stop myself). #

# Karl

I got these results now, 11.dec.2000: G3/350 Blue- Motu2408 mkII Driver: ASIO PCI-324

In-out latency test: 2226 samples = 50.476189 ms

Delay lines: 74 samples = 1.678005 ms

I have also found the fact that midi behaviour is quite unstable when using OMS, the Miditimepiece(USB) MTP AV under Macos 8.6 and running MaxMSP.

Ricardo

# On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote: # # > # > Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data for PD # > on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run it # > on my system and send you the results? # > # > I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch, and # > have never gotten around to it. # > # > I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the # > low-latency patch. # > # > > -----Original Message----- # > > From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] # > > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM # > > To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at # > > Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc # > > # > > # > > Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for # > > several weeks. # > > It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my # > > NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible! # > > # > > I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was # > > wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing # > > performance # > > out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit) # > > # > > I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices, changing # > > audiobuf, etc # > > # > > Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on # > > my system? # > > Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc # > > I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ # > > certain hardware # > > a 6ms latency can be had. # > > Is anything this low possible with PD? # > > I'd much rather stay within windows. # > > # > > Sorry for the bother with this question # > > # > > I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating # > > that PD can # > > give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out # > > I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a PC # > > can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips and # > > all) # > > # > > Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question # > > -daniel # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # > > # > # > # # -- # _____________________________________________________ # | Karl W. MacMillan | # | Computer Music Department | # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # ----------------------------------------------------- # #

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:37:12 -0500 (EST) Karl MacMillan karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu wrote:

# Ricardo, # # > I got these results now, 11.dec.2000: # > G3/350 Blue- Motu2408 mkII # > Driver: ASIO PCI-324 # > # Thanks for the hard numbers! How did you measure this? # # Karl

#

There is a latency test patch written by L. Stuck for MSP. It measures your system's input-output latency, by running a cable from your card's output (888/24, motu2408.... AMIII) to its input and boosting the output volume of your computer/card. So later you can also test by adding your external devices (i.e. mixer) to the loop, the amount of real latency you might have in a concert situation. The delay test is a simple delay~ object set to 74 samples. By using the same patch as before, audio is passed through the delay~ and the delay time is measured. It an also be good to measure the delay of your own msp patches by replacing the delay~ object with your MSP patch.

In theory the motu2048 should have a latency around 6ms I think.

Ricardo

# # > In-out latency test: # > 2226 samples = 50.476189 ms # > # > Delay lines: # > 74 samples = 1.678005 ms
# > # > I have also found the fact that midi behaviour is quite unstable # > when using OMS, the Miditimepiece(USB) MTP AV under Macos 8.6 # > and running MaxMSP. # > # > Ricardo # > # > ------------------------------------------------- # > # On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote: # > # # > # > # > # > Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data for PD # > # > on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run it # > # > on my system and send you the results? # > # > # > # > I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch, and # > # > have never gotten around to it. # > # > # > # > I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the # > # > low-latency patch. # > # > # > # > > -----Original Message----- # > # > > From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] # > # > > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM # > # > > To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at # > # > > Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for # > # > > several weeks. # > # > > It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my # > # > > NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible! # > # > > # > # > > I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was # > # > > wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing # > # > > performance # > # > > out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit) # > # > > # > # > > I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices, changing # > # > > audiobuf, etc # > # > > # > # > > Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on # > # > > my system? # > # > > Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc # > # > > I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ # > # > > certain hardware # > # > > a 6ms latency can be had. # > # > > Is anything this low possible with PD? # > # > > I'd much rather stay within windows. # > # > > # > # > > Sorry for the bother with this question # > # > > # > # > > I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating # > # > > that PD can # > # > > give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out # > # > > I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a PC # > # > > can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips and # > # > > all) # > # > > # > # > > Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question # > # > > -daniel # > # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > # > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > # # > # -- # > # _____________________________________________________ # > # | Karl W. MacMillan | # > # | Computer Music Department | # > # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # > # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # > # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # > # ----------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # # > # > # > # # -- # _____________________________________________________ # | Karl W. MacMillan | # | Computer Music Department | # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # ----------------------------------------------------- # #

Ricardo Climent