Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux?  I don't have any latency data for PD

on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run it on my system and send you the results?

I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch, and

have never gotten around to it.

I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the

low-latency patch.

-----Original Message----- From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc

Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for several weeks. It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible!

I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing performance out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit)

I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices, changing audiobuf, etc

Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on my system? Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ certain hardware a 6ms latency can be had. Is anything this low possible with PD? I'd much rather stay within windows.

Sorry for the bother with this question

I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating that PD can give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a PC can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips and all)

Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question -daniel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 14:56:05 -0500 (EST) Karl MacMillan karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu wrote:

# Micheal, # # Really the only way to fix this problem is to adapt PD to use ASIO # drivers. This was mentioned recently on the list, but the problem with # the normal windows sound drivers is that they go through a kernel mixer # (called kmixer - this allows more than one app to access a sound card # simultaneously) that adds a minimum of 30ms. It seems that a lot of pro # cards circumvent this with their ASIO drivers. # # The best solution is linux, but then you don't get to use your layla # because the manufacturer is not nice. Of course, if you are willing to # buy a macintosh you could just be an RME hammerfall card instead, install # linux + low-latency kernel, and enjoy 5ms latency regardless of disk or # cpu load. As for the Macintosh latency I think that the 6ms measurement # is not a real measure of end to end latency - I have never seen the # Max/MSP machines that I have access to (G3s with MOTU 2408) get anything # near that because of the complete inadequacy of the MacOS in all regards # (sorry about that comment - I couldn't stop myself). #

# Karl

I got these results now, 11.dec.2000: G3/350 Blue- Motu2408 mkII Driver: ASIO PCI-324

In-out latency test: 2226 samples = 50.476189 ms

Delay lines: 74 samples = 1.678005 ms

I have also found the fact that midi behaviour is quite unstable when using OMS, the Miditimepiece(USB) MTP AV under Macos 8.6 and running MaxMSP.

Ricardo

# On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote: # # > # > Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data for PD # > on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run it # > on my system and send you the results? # > # > I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch, and # > have never gotten around to it. # > # > I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the # > low-latency patch. # > # > > -----Original Message----- # > > From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] # > > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM # > > To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at # > > Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc # > > # > > # > > Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for # > > several weeks. # > > It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my # > > NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible! # > > # > > I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was # > > wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing # > > performance # > > out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit) # > > # > > I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices, changing # > > audiobuf, etc # > > # > > Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on # > > my system? # > > Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc # > > I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ # > > certain hardware # > > a 6ms latency can be had. # > > Is anything this low possible with PD? # > > I'd much rather stay within windows. # > > # > > Sorry for the bother with this question # > > # > > I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating # > > that PD can # > > give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out # > > I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a PC # > > can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips and # > > all) # > > # > > Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question # > > -daniel # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # > > # > # > # # -- # _____________________________________________________ # | Karl W. MacMillan | # | Computer Music Department | # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # ----------------------------------------------------- # #

On Mon, 11 Dec 2000 16:37:12 -0500 (EST) Karl MacMillan karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu wrote:

# Ricardo, # # > I got these results now, 11.dec.2000: # > G3/350 Blue- Motu2408 mkII # > Driver: ASIO PCI-324 # > # Thanks for the hard numbers! How did you measure this? # # Karl

#

There is a latency test patch written by L. Stuck for MSP. It measures your system's input-output latency, by running a cable from your card's output (888/24, motu2408.... AMIII) to its input and boosting the output volume of your computer/card. So later you can also test by adding your external devices (i.e. mixer) to the loop, the amount of real latency you might have in a concert situation. The delay test is a simple delay~ object set to 74 samples. By using the same patch as before, audio is passed through the delay~ and the delay time is measured. It an also be good to measure the delay of your own msp patches by replacing the delay~ object with your MSP patch.

In theory the motu2048 should have a latency around 6ms I think.

Ricardo

# # > In-out latency test: # > 2226 samples = 50.476189 ms # > # > Delay lines: # > 74 samples = 1.678005 ms
# > # > I have also found the fact that midi behaviour is quite unstable # > when using OMS, the Miditimepiece(USB) MTP AV under Macos 8.6 # > and running MaxMSP. # > # > Ricardo # > # > ------------------------------------------------- # > # On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote: # > # # > # > # > # > Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data for PD # > # > on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run it # > # > on my system and send you the results? # > # > # > # > I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch, and # > # > have never gotten around to it. # > # > # > # > I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the # > # > low-latency patch. # > # > # > # > > -----Original Message----- # > # > > From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] # > # > > Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM # > # > > To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at # > # > > Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc # > # > > # > # > > # > # > > Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for # > # > > several weeks. # > # > > It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my # > # > > NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible! # > # > > # > # > > I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was # > # > > wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing # > # > > performance # > # > > out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit) # > # > > # > # > > I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices, changing # > # > > audiobuf, etc # > # > > # > # > > Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on # > # > > my system? # > # > > Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc # > # > > I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ # > # > > certain hardware # > # > > a 6ms latency can be had. # > # > > Is anything this low possible with PD? # > # > > I'd much rather stay within windows. # > # > > # > # > > Sorry for the bother with this question # > # > > # > # > > I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating # > # > > that PD can # > # > > give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out # > # > > I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a PC # > # > > can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips and # > # > > all) # > # > > # > # > > Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question # > # > > -daniel # > # > > _________________________________________________________________ # > # > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com # > # > > # > # > # > # > # > # # > # -- # > # _____________________________________________________ # > # | Karl W. MacMillan | # > # | Computer Music Department | # > # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # > # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # > # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # > # ----------------------------------------------------- # > # # > # # > # > # > # # -- # _____________________________________________________ # | Karl W. MacMillan | # | Computer Music Department | # | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | # | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | # | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac | # ----------------------------------------------------- # #

Ricardo Climent