hi all,
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
as we all know, deken - Pd's built in package manager - can be used to query https://deken.puredata.info/ for available packages.
what some of you might now know is that deken sends the following information along with the request:
all this information is send as the "user agent" string (just like, when you access a webpage with your favourite browser, it will send its version and whatnot, e.g. "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0").
sidenote: i think myself of rather privacy aware, and do not think that collecting any of these data is problematic (nor is sending them from within Pd).
also, because this is how the internet works, the web server knows about your IP (and thus can make some educated guess about the country you are currently accessing a webpage from), and whether you are using an encrypted channel (https) or not (http); and of course the actual query.
i've finally decided to make this data public (and somewhat useful), by extracting some time-series and creating nice graphs from them.
these are now available on https://deken.puredata.info/trends
the data should get updated automatically. (since the data already covers about 7 years, it might look like it's not being updated though; but this is about seeing long-term *trends*, rather than short-term hypes, so I don't think it is a problem)
# data skew
the input data for the trend series is searches for externals via Pd's built-in package manager. this means, that specific use cases of Pd might not show up in the data at all. e.g. some Linux users might just prefer to install externals via their package manager (and do all searches there), so they won't be represented here at all.
Pd distributions that ship with a lot of externals, will not show up (as the users will not have a need to search for externals). esp. Pd-l2ork and Purr-Data do not show up, as they do not allow deken search (and there's some binary incompatibility, so that's a good thing) Plug Data does not show up either, even though you *can* use deken with it, because Plug Data does not directly query our web server for caching reasons.
early versions of deken would not send a specific user agent string (and use just the default one of Tcl/Tk), that's why you sometimes see labels like "Darwin?" or "i386?" - these values are just educated guesses, based on the user agent string and the the time when the queries occurred)
# absolute vs relative data
the data presented is relative (in percent). you can get graphs with absolute values by clicking on the images.
# oddities
the absolute data is very seasonal (whereas the relative representation is more or less stable). this *might* have to do with Pd being primarily used in educational contexts (with holidays in between, where the Pd is little used). but really, idk.
the other thing i found odd was that up to 2020 a considerable amount of the webtraffic (between 50% and 70%!) was using https. after that this dropped to between 5-10%. after some investigation i found that this has mostly to do with us upgrading the Tcl/Tk version included with Pd on macOS: up to Pd-0.51 (or so), the included Tcl/Tk was able to use system installed tcl-libraries, and macOS comes with a library that allows us to do https. newer versions of Tcl/Tk can no longer use this library, and since we do not ship our own, this means that the traiffic is degraded to http :-(
cheers,
gasdmr IOhannes
Great work, very valuable info, thanks IO!
Le lun. 28 juil. 2025 à 17:02, IOhannes m zmoelnig via Pd-list < pd-list@lists.iem.at> a écrit :
hi all,
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
as we all know, deken - Pd's built in package manager - can be used to query https://deken.puredata.info/ for available packages.
what some of you might now know is that deken sends the following information along with the request:
- the Tcl/Tk version used (e.g. "8.6.10")
- the Pd version used (e.g. "0.55-2")
- the deken version used (e.g. "0.9.18")
- the deken architecture of Pd (e.g. "Windows-amd64-32")
all this information is send as the "user agent" string (just like, when you access a webpage with your favourite browser, it will send its version and whatnot, e.g. "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0").
sidenote: i think myself of rather privacy aware, and do not think that collecting any of these data is problematic (nor is sending them from within Pd).
also, because this is how the internet works, the web server knows about your IP (and thus can make some educated guess about the country you are currently accessing a webpage from), and whether you are using an encrypted channel (https) or not (http); and of course the actual query.
i've finally decided to make this data public (and somewhat useful), by extracting some time-series and creating nice graphs from them.
these are now available on https://deken.puredata.info/trends
the data should get updated automatically. (since the data already covers about 7 years, it might look like it's not being updated though; but this is about seeing long-term *trends*, rather than short-term hypes, so I don't think it is a problem)
# data skew
the input data for the trend series is searches for externals via Pd's built-in package manager. this means, that specific use cases of Pd might not show up in the data at all. e.g. some Linux users might just prefer to install externals via their package manager (and do all searches there), so they won't be represented here at all.
Pd distributions that ship with a lot of externals, will not show up (as the users will not have a need to search for externals). esp. Pd-l2ork and Purr-Data do not show up, as they do not allow deken search (and there's some binary incompatibility, so that's a good thing) Plug Data does not show up either, even though you *can* use deken with it, because Plug Data does not directly query our web server for caching reasons.
early versions of deken would not send a specific user agent string (and use just the default one of Tcl/Tk), that's why you sometimes see labels like "Darwin?" or "i386?" - these values are just educated guesses, based on the user agent string and the the time when the queries occurred)
# absolute vs relative data
the data presented is relative (in percent). you can get graphs with absolute values by clicking on the images.
# oddities
the absolute data is very seasonal (whereas the relative representation is more or less stable). this *might* have to do with Pd being primarily used in educational contexts (with holidays in between, where the Pd is little used). but really, idk.
the other thing i found odd was that up to 2020 a considerable amount of the webtraffic (between 50% and 70%!) was using https. after that this dropped to between 5-10%. after some investigation i found that this has mostly to do with us upgrading the Tcl/Tk version included with Pd on macOS: up to Pd-0.51 (or so), the included Tcl/Tk was able to use system installed tcl-libraries, and macOS comes with a library that allows us to do https. newer versions of Tcl/Tk can no longer use this library, and since we do not ship our own, this means that the traiffic is degraded to http :-(
cheers,
gasdmr IOhannes -- please do not CC me for list-emails
pd-list@lists.iem.at - the Pure Data mailinglist
https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-list@lists.iem.at/message/FXCP2RBI4R...
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Wow - thanks IOhannes, this is amazing!
hi all,
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
as we all know, deken - Pd's built in package manager - can be used to query https://deken.puredata.info/ for available packages.
what some of you might now know is that deken sends the following information along with the request:
- the Tcl/Tk version used (e.g. "8.6.10")
- the Pd version used (e.g. "0.55-2")
- the deken version used (e.g. "0.9.18")
- the deken architecture of Pd (e.g. "Windows-amd64-32")
all this information is send as the "user agent" string (just like, when you access a webpage with your favourite browser, it will send its version and whatnot, e.g. "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0").
sidenote: i think myself of rather privacy aware, and do not think that collecting any of these data is problematic (nor is sending them from within Pd).
also, because this is how the internet works, the web server knows about your IP (and thus can make some educated guess about the country you are currently accessing a webpage from), and whether you are using an encrypted channel (https) or not (http); and of course the actual query.
i've finally decided to make this data public (and somewhat useful), by extracting some time-series and creating nice graphs from them.
these are now available on https://deken.puredata.info/trends
the data should get updated automatically. (since the data already covers about 7 years, it might look like it's not being updated though; but this is about seeing long-term *trends*, rather than short-term hypes, so I don't think it is a problem)
# data skew
the input data for the trend series is searches for externals via Pd's built-in package manager. this means, that specific use cases of Pd might not show up in the data at all. e.g. some Linux users might just prefer to install externals via their package manager (and do all searches there), so they won't be represented here at all.
Pd distributions that ship with a lot of externals, will not show up (as the users will not have a need to search for externals). esp. Pd-l2ork and Purr-Data do not show up, as they do not allow deken search (and there's some binary incompatibility, so that's a good thing) Plug Data does not show up either, even though you *can* use deken with it, because Plug Data does not directly query our web server for caching reasons.
early versions of deken would not send a specific user agent string (and use just the default one of Tcl/Tk), that's why you sometimes see labels like "Darwin?" or "i386?" - these values are just educated guesses, based on the user agent string and the the time when the queries occurred)
# absolute vs relative data
the data presented is relative (in percent). you can get graphs with absolute values by clicking on the images.
# oddities
the absolute data is very seasonal (whereas the relative representation is more or less stable). this *might* have to do with Pd being primarily used in educational contexts (with holidays in between, where the Pd is little used). but really, idk.
the other thing i found odd was that up to 2020 a considerable amount of the webtraffic (between 50% and 70%!) was using https. after that this dropped to between 5-10%. after some investigation i found that this has mostly to do with us upgrading the Tcl/Tk version included with Pd on macOS: up to Pd-0.51 (or so), the included Tcl/Tk was able to use system installed tcl-libraries, and macOS comes with a library that allows us to do https. newer versions of Tcl/Tk can no longer use this library, and since we do not ship our own, this means that the traiffic is degraded to http :-(
cheers,
gasdmr IOhannes -- please do not CC me for list-emails
pd-list@lists.iem.at - the Pure Data mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-list@lists.iem.at/message/FXCP2RBI4R...
To unsubscribe send an email to pd-list-leave@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.iem.at/
Hi,
On 28/07/2025 23:02, IOhannes m zmoelnig via Pd-list wrote:
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
This is really cool, thanks for sharing the anonymous data.
As well as the data you have shared, it is often useful for developers to know what users actually want. In lieu of actually speaking to human beings (horrifying), one way to accomplish this is to look at search volume data. I think it would be useful for Pd developers to be able to see a) which packages people are installing the most b) what else people are searching for in the deken search bar (especially where no results are found).
Summary:
exist yet. 3. Users rejoice.
Cheers,
Chris.
That's very cool! Some of the data is quite suprising. For example, I didn't expect that there are about as many Windows users as macOS users.
I agree with Chris that it would be cool to see package download statistics. Is this is something that is planned for the future?
Cheers,
Christof
On 28.07.2025 17:02, IOhannes m zmoelnig via Pd-list wrote:
hi all,
i've just setup a new (experimental) webservice, that shows some graph about trends in the usage of Pd, based on deken queries.
as we all know, deken - Pd's built in package manager - can be used to query https://deken.puredata.info/ for available packages.
what some of you might now know is that deken sends the following information along with the request:
- the Tcl/Tk version used (e.g. "8.6.10")
- the Pd version used (e.g. "0.55-2")
- the deken version used (e.g. "0.9.18")
- the deken architecture of Pd (e.g. "Windows-amd64-32")
all this information is send as the "user agent" string (just like, when you access a webpage with your favourite browser, it will send its version and whatnot, e.g. "Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:128.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/128.0").
sidenote: i think myself of rather privacy aware, and do not think that collecting any of these data is problematic (nor is sending them from within Pd).
also, because this is how the internet works, the web server knows about your IP (and thus can make some educated guess about the country you are currently accessing a webpage from), and whether you are using an encrypted channel (https) or not (http); and of course the actual query.
i've finally decided to make this data public (and somewhat useful), by extracting some time-series and creating nice graphs from them.
these are now available on https://deken.puredata.info/trends
the data should get updated automatically. (since the data already covers about 7 years, it might look like it's not being updated though; but this is about seeing long-term *trends*, rather than short-term hypes, so I don't think it is a problem)
# data skew
the input data for the trend series is searches for externals via Pd's built-in package manager. this means, that specific use cases of Pd might not show up in the data at all. e.g. some Linux users might just prefer to install externals via their package manager (and do all searches there), so they won't be represented here at all.
Pd distributions that ship with a lot of externals, will not show up (as the users will not have a need to search for externals). esp. Pd-l2ork and Purr-Data do not show up, as they do not allow deken search (and there's some binary incompatibility, so that's a good thing) Plug Data does not show up either, even though you *can* use deken with it, because Plug Data does not directly query our web server for caching reasons.
early versions of deken would not send a specific user agent string (and use just the default one of Tcl/Tk), that's why you sometimes see labels like "Darwin?" or "i386?" - these values are just educated guesses, based on the user agent string and the the time when the queries occurred)
# absolute vs relative data
the data presented is relative (in percent). you can get graphs with absolute values by clicking on the images.
# oddities
the absolute data is very seasonal (whereas the relative representation is more or less stable). this *might* have to do with Pd being primarily used in educational contexts (with holidays in between, where the Pd is little used). but really, idk.
the other thing i found odd was that up to 2020 a considerable amount of the webtraffic (between 50% and 70%!) was using https. after that this dropped to between 5-10%. after some investigation i found that this has mostly to do with us upgrading the Tcl/Tk version included with Pd on macOS: up to Pd-0.51 (or so), the included Tcl/Tk was able to use system installed tcl-libraries, and macOS comes with a library that allows us to do https. newer versions of Tcl/Tk can no longer use this library, and since we do not ship our own, this means that the traiffic is degraded to http :-(
cheers,
gasdmr IOhannes
pd-list@lists.iem.at - the Pure Data mailinglist https://lists.iem.at/hyperkitty/list/pd-list@lists.iem.at/message/FXCP2RBI4R...
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