Jonathan,I struggle a bit to understand what is the end goal of Purr Data:as far as I can tell, right now it is a re-implementation of the existing GUI in HTML5, which is great.Once this process is done (and I see we are very close now), how do you see the project will evolve? Will it just be about making the GUI more portable/customizable or do you foresee changes in the GUI/dsp communication protocol as well? Best,Giulio

  From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com>

To: Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: Pd-List pd-list@lists.iem.at Sent: Thursday, 29 September 2016, 7:12 Subject: Re: [PD] purr data beta1

awesome, more and more excited at each new development step so, Scope~ is already ported, but [comment]  is not working yet, are you dealing with it? cheers 2016-09-29 1:51 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list pd-list@lists.iem.at:

This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

Change log:

• fix many errors in the GUI
• fix position of popup menu when zooming
• fix scalar crasher
• fix gop display error
• fix disappearing $@
• save gui preset with preferences
• fix segfault with preference changes
• fixed many memory leaks with patches backported from Pd Vanilla
• small fixes to help patches
• add text editor window for [text define]
• add and improve the scalar properties dialog
• add default float arg for Pd's "quit" message (good for test patches)
• updated some external libraries

This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data/issues

Binaries here: https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/ tree/master -Jonathan

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Purr-Data is a GUI rewrite for Pd-L2Ork which has over 1,500 patches/bugfixes/improvements over vanilla/extended. Its design principle is centered around nimble distributed development which may (and already does) include improvements in core behavior. Hope this helps!

Best,

Ico

On 9/29/2016 10:48 AM, Giulio Moro via Pd-list wrote:

Jonathan, I struggle a bit to understand what is the end goal of Purr Data: as far as I can tell, right now it is a re-implementation of the existing GUI in HTML5, which is great. Once this process is done (and I see we are very close now), how do you see the project will evolve? Will it just be about making the GUI more portable/customizable or do you foresee changes in the GUI/dsp communication protocol as well?

Best, Giulio

------------------------------------------------------------------------
*From:* Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com>
*To:* Jonathan Wilkes <jancsika@yahoo.com>
*Cc:* Pd-List <pd-list@lists.iem.at>
*Sent:* Thursday, 29 September 2016, 7:12
*Subject:* Re: [PD] purr data beta1

awesome, more and more excited at each new development step

so, Scope~ is already ported, but [comment]  is not working yet,
are you dealing with it?

cheers

2016-09-29 1:51 GMT-03:00 Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list
<pd-list@lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>>:

    This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

    Change log:
    * fix many errors in the GUI
    * fix position of popup menu when zooming
    * fix scalar crasher
    * fix gop display error
    * fix disappearing $@
    * save gui preset with preferences
    * fix segfault with preference changes
    * fixed many memory leaks with patches backported from Pd Vanilla
    * small fixes to help patches
    * add text editor window for [text define]
    * add and improve the scalar properties dialog
    * add default float arg for Pd's "quit" message (good for test
    patches)
    * updated some external libraries

    This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to
    https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data/issues
    <https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues>

    Binaries here:
    https://git.purrdata.net/ jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/
    tree/master
    <https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/tree/master>

    -Jonathan

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so, Scope~ is already ported, but [comment]  is not working yet, are you

dealing with it?

Not yet.  For external GUI classes, I prioritized the necessary ones.  So I've ported pddplink/helplink/Scope~ and a few others because people were depending on them in help patches. -Jonathan

oh, unfortunately I cant run the OSX version on 10.8.5. It says it requires 10.9.

I'm building on an x86_64 machine that's running 10.11.6.  Is it possible to target 10.8.5 with Apple's tools on my machine?

just as report,

Jonas

Any chance to also pack purr-d to the mobile plattforms? so that a patch could be used there as well, with no vanilla-compatibility?

Which platforms?

This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

Change log:

• fix many errors in the GUI
• fix position of popup menu when zooming
• fix scalar crasher
• fix gop display error
• fix disappearing $@
• save gui preset with preferences
• fix segfault with preference changes
• fixed many memory leaks with patches backported from Pd Vanilla
• small fixes to help patches
• add text editor window for [text define]
• add and improve the scalar properties dialog
• add default float arg for Pd's "quit" message (good for test patches)
• updated some external libraries

This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues

Binaries here: https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/tree/master -Jonathan

On 09/30/2016 09:11 PM, João Pais wrote:

ah, I was thinking of android and iOs

ah, that one again....

the problem with iOS is that

• all software must go through the AppStore

AND

• the AppStore does not allow GPL software.

the "problem" with the entire external collection as was shipped with Pd-extended (and is shipped with Pd-l2ork and purr-data) is that a relevant percentage of the externals are released under the GPL.

so how?

gfmards IOhannes

On Sep 30, 2016, at 2:44 PM, João Pais jmmmpais@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 09/30/2016 09:11 PM, João Pais wrote:

...

ah, I was thinking of android and iOs

ah, that one again....

the problem with iOS is that

• all software must go through the AppStore

AND

• the AppStore does not allow GPL software.

the "problem" with the entire external collection as was shipped with Pd-extended (and is shipped with Pd-l2ork and purr-data) is that a relevant percentage of the externals are released under the GPL.

so how?

didn't Dan manage a Pd "port" with his pdparty?

No. PdParty uses libpd and emulates the GUI objects via send/receives. There is no ability to patch, only run patches and scenes which are essentially folders with a specific layout. I could/would consider adding this in the future if/when libpd can properly wrap the various GUI controls. Also, rethinking interface design for mobile-based patching is a non-trivial task. So far I am limiting myself to things I *need* as opposed to things that are *possible*.

PdParty is meant as an alternative to my Linux-based wearable computer using iOS. It’s not a replacement for desktop Pd.

in case purr-data turns out to be reliable, would it be a possible idea to use it also with this project, or is it too much too fast?

I have no plans to switch from libpd which is built around Pd vanilla. AFAICT most of the major updates to versions/branches/forks etc of Pure Data involve usability and bundling of externals which is a different domain that is not useful for a libpd-based app which creates it’s own interface and only uses the pd core.

Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/

On Sep 30, 2016, at 3:34 PM, João Pais jmmmpais@gmail.com wrote:

something I don't know about, is it (theoretically, if legally) possible to adapt externals so that they run with libpd?

Yes. People are using externals in their libpd projects. You simply include the external sources and then define & call their external’s setup function. I recently added a wiki page about this: https://github.com/libpd/libpd/wiki/Adding-Pure-Data-external-libraries-to-y... https://github.com/libpd/libpd/wiki/Adding-Pure-Data-external-libraries-to-your-project

also, does it mean that the core libpd is the same in both android and ios, or did you need to adapt libpd for pdparty? or, you just programmed everything around libpd, but left libpd as it is?

Yes, libpd is same for desktop, Android, and iOS. The only difference is some language wrappers (Java, Obj-C) and a couple extra interfaces to provide audio I/O. PdParty then uses libpd and a custom UI which communicates with the libpd instance and any patches currently loaded. I’ll go into all of this in a paper for Pd Con :)

Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/

On 09/30/2016 10:44 PM, João Pais wrote:

...

ah, that one again....

the problem with iOS is that

• all software must go through the AppStore

AND

• the AppStore does not allow GPL software.

the "problem" with the entire external collection as was shipped with Pd-extended (and is shipped with Pd-l2ork and purr-data) is that a relevant percentage of the externals are released under the GPL.

so how?

didn't Dan manage a Pd "port"

i was referring to legal problems, not technical ones. technical issues are easily solvable compared to legal ones (it's just plain impossible to ever upload (e.g.) zexy to AppStore until

• Apple changes it's policy

OR

• IOhannes changes the license

no matter what wonders dan and jonathan und whoelse might have wraught.

gmards IOhannes

It's fairly possible on android for multiprocess and low latency since 6.1, there also is a function for local sockets:

https://developer.android.com/reference/android/net/LocalServerSocket.html

Le 30/09/2016 à 22:06, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list a écrit :

...

ah, I was thinking of android and iOs (I thought those were the

official "mobile plattforms")

There's no support for android or ios atm, and adding it would be beyond what's possible in the first release.

Just for reference: do those platforms allow their apps to be multi-process, and to communicate over a tcp socket?

-Jonathan

> Any chance to also pack purr-d to the mobile plattforms? so that
a patch could be used there as well, with no vanilla-compatibility?

Which platforms?




    This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

    Change log:
    * fix many errors in the GUI
    * fix position of popup menu when zooming
    * fix scalar crasher
    * fix gop display error
    * fix disappearing $@
    * save gui preset with preferences
    * fix segfault with preference changes
    * fixed many memory leaks with patches backported from Pd Vanilla
    * small fixes to help patches
    * add text editor window for [text define]
    * add and improve the scalar properties dialog
    * add default float arg for Pd's "quit" message (good for test
    patches)
    * updated some external libraries

    This is a beta release, so please report lots of bugs to
    https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data/issues

    Binaries here:
    https://git.purrdata.net/jwilkes/purr-data-binaries/tree/master

    -Jonathan

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ah, I was thinking of android and iOs (I thought those were the official "mobile plattforms")

There's no support for android or ios atm, and adding it would be beyond what's possible in the first release.

ok. but would it be something for the future, or unforeseable for now?

The bulk of the GUI code is just regular javascript interacting with the DOM. For that it would be possible to set up a webview in ios or android, and then you'd have your patch displayed just fine.  But the entire UX is centered around a mouse and keyboard, so it wouldn't work very well out of the box. Also, nw.js itself won't run on android or ios atm.  So it'd need to be a different toolkit holding that webview, plus all kinds of changes to make the UX sane for a small touchscreen. -Jonathan

ah, tested the 64b version on w7

cool. some random remarks, most of them just tiny details:

• when installing on windows, the installer didn't ask for the

installation folder. I imagine it took it from the previous folder
purr-d was installed. But >in case I would want to change the
installation place, that would be on the way. Is it better to always
confirm the installation folder, as it was the >case before?

• good work with avoiding replacing the systems libs only after closing

Pd.

• the file file purr-data/ReadMe.html is an older file? should it be

updated, or just removed as a readme option? (does anyone read this
file) if it >remains, maybe update and make it a bit nice, e.g. with
some general Pd links, instead of some detailed information that will
only scare newbies?

• is it possible to improve the purr-d system icon (the black losangle

that appears when changing programs with alt-tab)

• the help browser still doesn't work for me. neither with "bezier",

"jmmmp/bezier", "jmmmp". but files inside of /doc/ seem to work

• I still don't find any tutorial for the new data structure features
• data structures inside a gop work very very slow - check

jmmmp/bezier-help.pd (compare with pd-ext)

• also jmmmp/jp.menu-help shows the same bugs reported some days ago

(also compare with pd-ext)- is there a minimum width for gop windows?
check out jmmmp/butt-help.pd; the gops should be square, not rectangular.

• is it possible to use keys to select the answers in windows such as

"do you want to save the changes...", and also the menus (compare with
pd->ext)

• in pd-ext, all open windows (including subpatches) were listed in the

"windows" menu. could this be added?

If there's something concrete I should test, let me know.

Best,

Joao

Also, there is still no tutorial file for data structures in /doc

In the situation where pd-l2ork installation only has dependencies to install, and none to remove (by manually deinstalling libjack-jackd2-0) it still fails because it depends on libjack-jackd2-0. This looks like a deb-package configuration issue.

Fred Jan

On 2016-10-02 12:55 PM, Fred Jan Kraan wrote:

On 2016-09-29 06:51 AM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

...

This is the beta 1 release of Purr Data (the GUI port of Pd-l2ork)

I tried installing purr-data on xubuntu-16.04-x64 with gdebi.

This fails because pd-l2ork depends on libstk0-dev. Manually installing libstk0-dev does not work as it is removed during installation of purr-data. This might be an version issue, maybe the current version of libstk0-dev is too new for pd-l2ork.

Apart from this I tried to compile and run just the core. Compiling and retrieving the nwjs-sdk eventually worked but running failed on the nw executable which printed "Created new window in existing browser session." and "watchdog: signaling pd..."

Greetings,

Fred Jan

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On 10/02/2016 04:11 PM, Jonathan Wilkes via Pd-list wrote:

All I find is libjack-jack2-0 in the list of "Depends:" values.

which begs to break.

i thought that pd-l2ork switched to automatic shlibdeps awhile ago?

gfmasre IOhannes

Not yet. I need to carve out some time to learn the packaging.

On 2016-10-02 04:00 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

Any clue why it's removed during installation?

It appeared there was a windowless "Software Installer" already running, subverting other of versions itself and gdebi. Without it, purr-data installs and runs as good as one might expect from a VM.

...

Apart from this I tried to compile and run just the core. Compiling and retrieving the nwjs-sdk eventually worked but running failed on the nw executable which printed "Created new window in existing browser session." and "watchdog: signaling pd..."

What method are you using to run Purr Data? At the moment, this can happen when nw.js is already running.

Indeed there were two nw's running. Killing those and restarting gives the following pop-up: Failed to load extension from: /home/fjkraan/oldHome/PureData/purr-data-mod/pd/bin. Manifest file is missing or unreadable.

But compiling is not a priority.

-Jonathan

Greetings,

Fred Jan

On 2016-10-02 06:25 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

Weird.

So the remaining issue is that the deb unnecessarily requires dev packages, right?

Starting with a fresh Xubuntu 16.04, gdebi reports one package to remove (libjack-jackd2-0) and 196 packages to install.

At the end, purr-data install on the unmet dependency on libjack-jackd2-0. Reinstalling ends up with a missing libstk0-dev. Here I stopped for now. The standard installer "Software Installer" does not work, and gdebi seems to have problems. There is a way to end up with a working purr-data, but it isn't a click-and-run exercise.

Fred Jan