I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
M
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Jul 16, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
I'd say keep using the included Wish in mac/stuff. It's Tk 8.4 and still works fine. Then we can work out the kinks in the sizing for the next release and bring in Deja Vu Sans Mono cross platform. I was hesitant to push that for this release as it obviously still needs some attention and testing. I've tried a few fixes now and then, but nothing stuck so far. Frankly, there were many other things that came up first.
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
Any mac TK 8.4 Wish will work, I think. The included one in mac/stuff or the one bundled with macOS. The default behavior for "make app" is to use the traditional, included one to match your previous releases. The system one can be had with:
mac/osc-app.sh -s 8.4 0.48.0
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Cool, that seems to be working...
I think I'll have to confront fractional font sizes pretty soon - more and more stuff is going to start breaking in TK 8.4.
cheers Miller
P.S. I hope fatherhood and germany-moving-in are going well - thanks for being so present on the list while all that's going on!
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 10:34:30PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
On Jul 16, 2017, at 9:38 PM, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
I'd say keep using the included Wish in mac/stuff. It's Tk 8.4 and still works fine. Then we can work out the kinks in the sizing for the next release and bring in Deja Vu Sans Mono cross platform. I was hesitant to push that for this release as it obviously still needs some attention and testing. I've tried a few fixes now and then, but nothing stuck so far. Frankly, there were many other things that came up first.
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
Any mac TK 8.4 Wish will work, I think. The included one in mac/stuff or the one bundled with macOS. The default behavior for "make app" is to use the traditional, included one to match your previous releases. The system one can be had with:
mac/osc-app.sh -s 8.4 0.48.0
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Ok... I think I have a workaround that will allow us to ship with TCL/TK 8.5 (at last.....)
I've pushed a compiled Mac app and the source to my webpage and git-pushed.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 12:38:44PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
M
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hah, funny that never occurred to me. I tried all sorts of rounding with the font metrics discovery.
It does work, but the default Monaco rendering is too thin and the text is not very readable when the font size is 10 or lower.
However, I just tried with Deja Vu Sans Mono and it looks *great*. I mean, really. I brought the dejavu branch up to date and it's working with the mac build. We can add Windows font support later.
On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu wrote:
Ok... I think I have a workaround that will allow us to ship with TCL/TK 8.5 (at last.....)
I've pushed a compiled Mac app and the source to my webpage and git-pushed.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 12:38:44PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote:
Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
M
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote:
I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Based on : https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
I think that dejavu is pretty Ok.
And pdx font metrics is also Ok. This is a major change to everybody, it looks smaller on all Os, but has benefits, one is that patches render the same on Purr-data/Pd-L2ork.
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 6:49 AM To: Miller Puckette Cc: Pd-List Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
Hah, funny that never occurred to me. I tried all sorts of rounding with the font metrics discovery.
It does work, but the default Monaco rendering is too thin and the text is not very readable when the font size is 10 or lower.
However, I just tried with Deja Vu Sans Mono and it looks *great*. I mean, really. I brought the dejavu branch up to date and it's working with the mac build. We can add Windows font support later.
On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edumailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Ok... I think I have a workaround that will allow us to ship with TCL/TK 8.5 (at last.....)
I've pushed a compiled Mac app and the source to my webpage and git-pushed.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 12:38:44PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
M
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote: I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Dan Wilcox @danomatikahttp://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
@IOhannes:
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly
introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic
font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)
the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM To: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
@IOhannes
Here Dan is saying he is becoming to like the font metrics thing:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-07/119495.html
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:24 PM To: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
@IOhannes:
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly
introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic
font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)
the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM To: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
So, i just built from https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu and tested here on my mac. It looks good alright, seems to render better and stuff, but it isn't backwards compatible, seems to require more real estate for texts and all (object size and the like) - see attachment.
So it doesn't really render the same as in purr data, like you say. That actually looks the same as the current pd state, as well as old pd extended.
As much as I like the idea of having a new cross platform bahaviour for pd, I was hoping it'd be the same as purr data and all... also that I wouldn't have to reformat over 300 help patches I'm working on, plus my tutorials which is quite numerous as well - not to mentio regular patches/abstractions.
cheers
2017-07-21 18:48 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
@IOhannes
Here Dan is saying he is becoming to like the font metrics thing:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-07/119495.html
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:24 PM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
@IOhannes:
*>it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly*
*introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic*
*font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)*
*the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.*
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform- font-metrics-%26-comparisons
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Hi Alex,
What you built only changes Monaco for DejaVU. The font metrics in pd-gui.tcl are just vanilla.
If you want to test you can modify "pd-gui.tcl" to meet pdx metrics. If you do so you most likely get the same as Purr-data.
Just tweak the values on the .tcl file and restart pd.
The pdx values and the how-to are here:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 11:36 PM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] 048 font metrics (was: pd 0.48-0test1 released)
So, i just built from https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu and tested here on my mac. It looks good alright, seems to render better and stuff, but it isn't backwards compatible, seems to require more real estate for texts and all (object size and the like) - see attachment. [https://avatars3.githubusercontent.com/u/10228017?v=4&s=400]https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu
pure-data/pure-datahttps://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu github.com pure-data - Pure Data - tracking Miller's SourceForge git repository (also used by libpd)
So it doesn't really render the same as in purr data, like you say. That actually looks the same as the current pd state, as well as old pd extended.
As much as I like the idea of having a new cross platform bahaviour for pd, I was hoping it'd be the same as purr data and all... also that I wouldn't have to reformat over 300 help patches I'm working on, plus my tutorials which is quite numerous as well - not to mentio regular patches/abstractions.
cheers
2017-07-21 18:48 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
@IOhannes
Here Dan is saying he is becoming to like the font metrics thing:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-07/119495.html
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list <pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at> on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:24 PM To: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
@IOhannes:
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly
introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic
font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)
the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list <pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at> on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig <zmoelnig@iem.atmailto:zmoelnig@iem.at> Sent: Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM To: pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
2017-07-21 21:26 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
Hi Alex,
What you built only changes Monaco for DejaVU. The font metrics in pd-gui.tcl are just vanilla.
If you want to test you can modify "pd-gui.tcl" to meet pdx metrics. If you do so you most likely get the same as Purr-data.
Just tweak the values on the .tcl file and restart pd.
The pdx values and the how-to are here:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform- font-metrics-%26-comparisons
Ok, this is very Deja Vu indeed... let me just ask, we will not have to do any of this when this gets merged, right? So why, to this point, when I build from that branch I still have to do other stuff in order to get what it is supposed to give me in the end? Do you follow me?
cheers
One more thing:
@Alex:
All this pdx font metrics thing came from your cyclone help patches not rendering the same on diff platforms. While testing that we also came across the diff between vanilla and purr-data.
Personally I think is clever that pd patches render the same on all pd's but I can perfectly live with vanilla metrics.
So if you are not going to modify your pd-gui.tcl and test you are welcomed to redo all your 300 help patches so that *we* can see them nicely on vanilla metrics.
Pdx metrics are still not officially supported by Miller, IOhannes or Dan.
Ok, this is very Deja Vu indeed... let me just ask, we will not have to do any of this when this gets merged, right? So why, to this point, when I build from that branch I still have to do other stuff in order to get what it is supposed to give me in the end? Do you follow me?
See above, pdx metrics are not yet hardcoded, there must be a good argument for that to became meaningful.
Support it by just testing and giving opinions. But modify that tcl please.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 12:54 AM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] 048 font metrics (was: pd 0.48-0test1 released)
2017-07-21 21:26 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
Hi Alex,
What you built only changes Monaco for DejaVU. The font metrics in pd-gui.tcl are just vanilla.
If you want to test you can modify "pd-gui.tcl" to meet pdx metrics. If you do so you most likely get the same as Purr-data.
Just tweak the values on the .tcl file and restart pd.
The pdx values and the how-to are here:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
Ok, this is very Deja Vu indeed... let me just ask, we will not have to do any of this when this gets merged, right? So why, to this point, when I build from that branch I still have to do other stuff in order to get what it is supposed to give me in the end? Do you follow me?
cheers
2017-07-21 22:10 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
pdx metrics are not yet hardcoded, there must be a good argument for that to became meaningful.
what do you mean?
Support it by just testing and giving opinions. But modify that tcl please.
My opinion is that things should look the same, out of the box, on vanilla, pd extended, and purr data. In the verge of bringing cyclone to purr data, I hope the same documentation works in both, cause doing two of them would be insane.
Now, is there any need for further testing? Hasn't this been tested already?
cheers
well, in the PR discussion, back in february, I did ask
will this branch also focus on geting the same metrics as Pd-Extended or not?
And Dan replied:
"Yes it does, it simply doesn't have that change applied yet. I'm not 100% convinced the smaller boxes make the most sense overall, maybe there are some tweaks needed as a couple patches I have seem too slim where the top of the text overlaps the object border. I'll dig that up later.
I'd like to get some feedback from @millerpuckette https://github.com/millerpuckette & @umlaeute https://github.com/umlaeute in regard to both font & metrics adjustment."
So I assumed it'd be working like that by now.
cheers
2017-07-22 0:39 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
2017-07-21 22:10 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
pdx metrics are not yet hardcoded, there must be a good argument for that to became meaningful.
what do you mean?
Support it by just testing and giving opinions. But modify that tcl please.
My opinion is that things should look the same, out of the box, on vanilla, pd extended, and purr data. In the verge of bringing cyclone to purr data, I hope the same documentation works in both, cause doing two of them would be insane.
Now, is there any need for further testing? Hasn't this been tested already?
cheers
So I assumed it'd be working like that by now.
Is not.
Check line 137 on Dan's dejavu branch: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/dejavu/tcl/pd-gui.tcl
If you want to see how does pdx font metrics looks on your Mac you must edit your local “pd-gui.tcl”
change line 137 to:
set font_metrics { 5 11 6 13 7 16 10 19 14 29 22 44 Restart Pd.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com Sent: Saturday, July 22, 2017 3:54 AM To: Lucas Cordiviola Cc: pd-list@lists.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] 048 font metrics (was: pd 0.48-0test1 released)
well, in the PR discussion, back in february, I did ask
will this branch also focus on geting the same metrics as Pd-Extended or not?
And Dan replied:
"Yes it does, it simply doesn't have that change applied yet. I'm not 100% convinced the smaller boxes make the most sense overall, maybe there are some tweaks needed as a couple patches I have seem too slim where the top of the text overlaps the object border. I'll dig that up later.
I'd like to get some feedback from @millerpuckettehttps://github.com/millerpuckette & @umlaeutehttps://github.com/umlaeute in regard to both font & metrics adjustment."
So I assumed it'd be working like that by now.
cheers
2017-07-22 0:39 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.commailto:porres@gmail.com>:
2017-07-21 22:10 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27@hotmail.commailto:lucarda27@hotmail.com>:
pdx metrics are not yet hardcoded, there must be a good argument for that to became meaningful.
what do you mean?
Support it by just testing and giving opinions. But modify that tcl please.
My opinion is that things should look the same, out of the box, on vanilla, pd extended, and purr data. In the verge of bringing cyclone to purr data, I hope the same documentation works in both, cause doing two of them would be insane.
Now, is there any need for further testing? Hasn't this been tested already?
cheers
On Sam, 2017-07-22 at 00:39 -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
My opinion is that things should look the same, out of the box, on vanilla, pd extended, and purr data.
I hear you, although I'd be already quite happy if box sizes would be consistent across platforms in Pd-vanilla. If I'm not mistaken, boxes for font size 10 increased when switching from Debian Wheezy to Jessie and from Ubuntu 14.04 to 16.04 without the code of Pd having changed. So, in order to get the same box size for font size 10, I change the font metric from '7 13' to '7 12'. On Macs, it seems it has been always consistent. In Windows, Pd uses the same box size for font size 10 as long as the Deja Vu font is _not_ installed. When Pd uses DejaVu, box size for font size 10 is increased again.
Somehow Pd-extended managed to make it consistent across platforms, but I shouldn't complain, it seems a complex matter and I understand very little of it.
Roman
2017-07-22 5:29 GMT-03:00 Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com:
Somehow Pd-extended managed to make it consistent across platforms, but I shouldn't complain, it seems a complex matter and I understand very little of it.
yeah, I'm often surprised to learn how things aren't as simple as I assumed they'd be. Well, it seems this is a problem that needs further discussing.
Yeah, somehow Pd Extended worked fine, Purr Data also inherited that and is consistent, and it always seemed that vanilla was the same to me cause I'm on a Mac. I was also surprised to learn things were different in linux/windows.
I'd also consider an improvement if things would look consistent between platforms on vanilla, but as it is, it seems Windows is not taken care yet, so I don't see much advantage at all as of now, as you're not making everything consistent and you're also compromising how things look on the mac...
And in the end, I just hope we map the issues of how and why it can't work as extended/purr data, before settling down to a different aesthetics.
Anyway, the same topic is in discussion in the dev list, and it seems this PR will be left out of the new release, until we could discuss this better and stuff.
cheers
now, since we're talking about "Dejas Vu", I'm also having a Deja Vu of my own... it's not the first time I complain things look different, but then someone ends up saying I needed to do something else in order to test it... as it happened in this discussion a few months ago https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/42
and I did ask if the idea is to be compatible to old extended (and purr data), and I seem to have been able to test, at one point, that it actually did and I couldn't be happier.
But I also thought that, at this point, compiling from that branch would give me that result out of the box.
So, did I miss something or not?
cheers
2017-07-21 20:36 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
So, i just built from https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu and tested here on my mac. It looks good alright, seems to render better and stuff, but it isn't backwards compatible, seems to require more real estate for texts and all (object size and the like) - see attachment.
So it doesn't really render the same as in purr data, like you say. That actually looks the same as the current pd state, as well as old pd extended.
As much as I like the idea of having a new cross platform bahaviour for pd, I was hoping it'd be the same as purr data and all... also that I wouldn't have to reformat over 300 help patches I'm working on, plus my tutorials which is quite numerous as well - not to mentio regular patches/abstractions.
cheers
2017-07-21 18:48 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
@IOhannes
Here Dan is saying he is becoming to like the font metrics thing:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-07/119495.html
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:24 PM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
@IOhannes:
*>it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly*
*introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic*
*font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)*
*the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.*
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-fo nt-metrics-%26-comparisons
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li stinfo/pd-list
oh Lucas... see? When I sent the email, I could then see you had written me...
let me check that now, sorry :)
2017-07-21 21:51 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
now, since we're talking about "Dejas Vu", I'm also having a Deja Vu of my own... it's not the first time I complain things look different, but then someone ends up saying I needed to do something else in order to test it... as it happened in this discussion a few months ago https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/42
and I did ask if the idea is to be compatible to old extended (and purr data), and I seem to have been able to test, at one point, that it actually did and I couldn't be happier.
But I also thought that, at this point, compiling from that branch would give me that result out of the box.
So, did I miss something or not?
cheers
2017-07-21 20:36 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
So, i just built from https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/dejavu and tested here on my mac. It looks good alright, seems to render better and stuff, but it isn't backwards compatible, seems to require more real estate for texts and all (object size and the like) - see attachment.
So it doesn't really render the same as in purr data, like you say. That actually looks the same as the current pd state, as well as old pd extended.
As much as I like the idea of having a new cross platform bahaviour for pd, I was hoping it'd be the same as purr data and all... also that I wouldn't have to reformat over 300 help patches I'm working on, plus my tutorials which is quite numerous as well - not to mentio regular patches/abstractions.
cheers
2017-07-21 18:48 GMT-03:00 Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com:
@IOhannes
Here Dan is saying he is becoming to like the font metrics thing:
https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2017-07/119495.html
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Lucas Cordiviola lucarda27@hotmail.com *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:24 PM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
@IOhannes:
*>it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly*
*introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic*
*font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives)*
*the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.*
The zoom feature will work with the correct doubles from pdx metrics, this are the actual doubles of vanilla:
set font_zoom2_metrics { 12 20 14 26 18 32 20 42 30 50 50 90 }
Does *downside* to you is having a little more white space?
Pdx font metrics wont break vanilla patches.
See: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-fo nt-metrics-%26-comparisons
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
*From:* Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at *Sent:* Friday, July 21, 2017 7:44 AM *To:* pd-list@lists.iem.at *Subject:* Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
it seems that i remember dan (or was it miller) pointing to the newly introduced zoom feature which complicates things a bit more. and dynamic font managing. and what not. (probably check the archives) the conclusion for me is: there *are* downsides.
On 2017-07-21 04:50, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
This is a major change to everybody,
certainly not.
gmasdr IOhannes
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li stinfo/pd-list
Yes! Readability at a distance is really important in class. I vote for the heaviest dejavu typeface that will work.
Also it only just occured to me to say this, so a feature request for some future release; It would be great to make a slightly stronger visual distinction between objects and message boxes. The indent on the right side of message boxes is often misread by students who are tired or sitting at the back.
cheers, Andy
On Fri, Jul 21, 2017 at 02:50:11AM +0000, Lucas Cordiviola wrote:
Based on : https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/wiki/Crossplatform-font-metrics-%26-c...
I think that dejavu is pretty Ok.
And pdx font metrics is also Ok. This is a major change to everybody, it looks smaller on all Os, but has benefits, one is that patches render the same on Purr-data/Pd-L2ork.
I don't see any downside on pdx font metrics.
Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas.
From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com Sent: Thursday, July 20, 2017 6:49 AM To: Miller Puckette Cc: Pd-List Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-announce] pd 0.48-0test1 released
Hah, funny that never occurred to me. I tried all sorts of rounding with the font metrics discovery.
It does work, but the default Monaco rendering is too thin and the text is not very readable when the font size is 10 or lower.
However, I just tried with Deja Vu Sans Mono and it looks *great*. I mean, really. I brought the dejavu branch up to date and it's working with the mac build. We can add Windows font support later.
On Jul 20, 2017, at 7:25 AM, Miller Puckette <msp@ucsd.edumailto:msp@ucsd.edu> wrote:
Ok... I think I have a workaround that will allow us to ship with TCL/TK 8.5 (at last.....)
I've pushed a compiled Mac app and the source to my webpage and git-pushed.
cheers Miller
On Sun, Jul 16, 2017 at 12:38:44PM -0700, Miller Puckette wrote: Sure enough - with TK 8.5, font sizes are no longer integers; the "font metrics" command appears to return the next-higher integer sizes (thus throwing off box sizes and messing up selecting text within boxes).
I'm not sure what to do - try to adapt Pd to deal with fractional font sizes, or find some way to force TK 5 to use integer-sized fonts, or just give up and use 8.4 for another cycle...
Incidentally, 8.4 isn't yet building on my MacOS 10.6... maybe I can just include the system-provided one :)
M
On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 11:22:35PM +0200, Dan Wilcox wrote: I've added a macOS 32bit 0.48.0-test1 build using the normal (old, included) Tk 8.4 wish: http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/ http://docs.danomatika.com/pdbuilds/
On Jul 15, 2017, at 11:02 AM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.atmailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
I notice it looks quite differently in Mac OS, like there is a new font, but it still seems it is Monaco. But the font size is smaller and the boxes are thinner and wider. A subpatch will also have an extra space to the right after the text/name of the subpatch.
You are seeing the retina rendering with a newer Tk, which still has those font issues as the rendered box size does not quite fit the font. I haven't been able to track down a fix yet.
It's weird, though, as this shouldn't be the default yet and Pd should still be using 8.4 which is pixelated on retina screens but has correct object sizing.
Miller, how did you build the mac distribution app?
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
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Dan Wilcox @danomatikahttp://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.comhttp://danomatika.com robotcowboy.comhttp://robotcowboy.com
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Testing consensus with DejaVu Sans mono is that normal weight is best across platforms for similar rendering. I suppose we'll find out if everyone agrees. You can, of course, add -font-weight bold to your startup flags for presenting :)
On Jul 21, 2017, at 10:23 AM, Andy Farnell padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
Yes! Readability at a distance is really important in class. I vote for the heaviest dejavu typeface that will work.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
-
Alexandre Torres Porres -
Andy Farnell -
Dan Wilcox -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Lucas Cordiviola -
Miller Puckette -
Roman Haefeli