Hi, What do people think of the little "Tip of the Day" windows that are in some software? Are they helpful? Annoying?
Either way, I made one in Pd.
Seems like this could be useful to beginners. And at the moment they're no longer useful one can just turn them off. (Or they could be turned off by default and live in the help window.)
A prototype is attached. [hcs/folder_list] and [ggee/button] are the externals used.
-Jonathan
Cute and has a very "proprietary" feel like "Pdad" standing behind me with a reassuring hand on my shoulder. Great tips. Love it.
Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Hi, What do people think of the little "Tip of the Day" windows that are in some software? Are they helpful? Annoying?
My two cents. I think they are pretty useless and annoying, as randomly suggesting something doesn't add any help to the total beginner ("did you know you can type ctrl+1 to create a new object?"... well thank you but I'd really like to know how to make those cool sounds in pd like the videos I saw on youtube!)
But I guess it's a matter of personal taste.
Maybe, though, some of those "tips" could go in some sort of Pd quick tutorial or cookbook... but searchable and well indexed?
Lorenzo
Either way, I made one in Pd.
Seems like this could be useful to beginners. And at the moment they're no longer useful one can just turn them off. (Or they could be turned off by default and live in the help window.)
A prototype is attached. [hcs/folder_list] and [ggee/button] are the externals used.
-Jonathan
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it wrote:
From: Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 9:28 AM Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Hi, What do people think of
the little "Tip of the Day" windows that
are in some software? Are they helpful?
Annoying? My two cents. I think they are pretty useless and annoying, as randomly suggesting something doesn't add any help to the total beginner ("did you know you can type ctrl+1 to create a new object?"... well thank you but I'd really like to know how to make those cool sounds in pd like the videos I saw on youtube!)
But I guess it's a matter of personal taste.
Maybe, though, some of those "tips" could go in some sort of Pd quick tutorial or cookbook... but searchable and well indexed?
I was trying to focus on matters of edition and odds and ends that are easy to overlook in such tutorials. Every one of the tips is covered somewhere in Pd's help docs, but they're all scattered about.
As for searchable and well-indexed-- that's the idea of the META subpatch, which I've added to all the internal help patches as well as many external help patches, too. Not too long ago I posted a screenshot of a search patch I made that dynamically generates results in the form of link + object description. I've done the same for Miller's tutorials but I have no idea whether he'll include them or not.
-Jonathan
Lorenzo
Either way, I made one in Pd.
Seems like this could be useful to beginners.
And at the moment
they're no longer useful one can just turn them off.
(Or they could
be turned off by default and live in the help
window.)
A prototype is attached. [hcs/folder_list] and
[ggee/button] are the externals used.
-Jonathan
Pd-list@iem.at
mailing list
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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day From: Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com To: pd-list@iem.at, Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it Date: 06/12/10 10:26
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Lorenzo Suttonlsutton@libero.it wrote:
From: Lorenzo Suttonlsutton@libero.it Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 9:28 AM Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Hi, What do people think of
the little "Tip of the Day" windows that
are in some software? Are they helpful?
Annoying? My two cents. I think they are pretty useless and annoying, as randomly suggesting something doesn't add any help to the total beginner ("did you know you can type ctrl+1 to create a new object?"... well thank you but I'd really like to know how to make those cool sounds in pd like the videos I saw on youtube!)
But I guess it's a matter of personal taste.
Maybe, though, some of those "tips" could go in some sort of Pd quick tutorial or cookbook... but searchable and well indexed?
I was trying to focus on matters of edition and odds and ends that are easy to overlook in such tutorials. Every one of the tips is covered somewhere in Pd's help docs, but they're all scattered about.
As for searchable and well-indexed-- that's the idea of the META subpatch, which I've added to all the internal help patches as well as many external help patches, too. Not too long ago I posted a screenshot of a search patch I made that dynamically generates results in the form of link + object description. I've done the same for Miller's tutorials but I have no idea whether he'll include them or not.
IMHO *that* is a very good idea.. searching for some library/external one doesn't always use and can't remember the exact name (including upper-lowecase mixes) can be a headache and often ends up with clumsy and not-so efficient find . -iname something in the /usr/lib/pd-extended dir :)
I can't recall if there was some discussion on the list about help files "best practices", ideally there should always be a comment or the object itself with a brief (meaningful) description like:
[osc~] - cosine wave oscillator
This way one could easily index externals and abstractions... I had hacked a python script to create a single html page of an extrernals dir a while back but it was pretty crude.
Lorenzo
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it wrote:
From: Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day To: Cc: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com, pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 10:42 AM -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day From: Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com To: pd-list@iem.at, Lorenzo Sutton lsutton@libero.it Date: 06/12/10 10:26
--- On Mon, 12/6/10, Lorenzo Suttonlsutton@libero.it
wrote:
From: Lorenzo Suttonlsutton@libero.it Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Monday, December 6, 2010, 9:28 AM Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Hi, What do
people think of
the little "Tip of the Day" windows that
are in some software? Are they helpful?
Annoying? My two cents. I think they are pretty useless and annoying, as
randomly
suggesting something doesn't add any help to the
total
beginner ("did you know you can type ctrl+1 to
create a new
object?"... well thank you but I'd really like to
know how
to make those cool sounds in pd like the
videos I saw
on youtube!)
But I guess it's a matter of personal taste.
Maybe, though, some of those "tips" could go in
some sort
of Pd quick tutorial or cookbook... but searchable
and well
indexed?
I was trying to focus on matters of edition and odds
and ends that
are easy to overlook in such tutorials. Every
one of the tips is
covered somewhere in Pd's help docs, but they're all
scattered
about.
As for searchable and well-indexed-- that's the idea
of the META
subpatch, which I've added to all the internal help
patches as well
as many external help patches, too. Not too long
ago I posted a
screenshot of a search patch I made that dynamically
generates
results in the form of link + object
description. I've done the
same for Miller's tutorials but I have no idea whether
he'll include
them or not.
IMHO *that* is a very good idea.. searching for some library/external one doesn't always use and can't remember the exact name (including upper-lowecase mixes) can be a headache and often ends up with clumsy and not-so efficient find . -iname something in the /usr/lib/pd-extended dir :)
I can't recall if there was some discussion on the list about help files "best practices", ideally there should always be a comment or the object itself with a brief (meaningful) description like:
[osc~] - cosine wave oscillator
That would be: DESCRIPTION cosine wave oscillator
So in my search patch you can type "oscillator" and get a match.
You can also search for particular keys/values:
"@AUTHOR Miller Puckette"
returns all (well, most) of the internal objects, and
"@INLET_0 symbol @OUTLET_0 symbol"
gives you makefilename, openpanel, iemlib/splitfilename,
iemlib/stripfilename, etc.
Unfortunately there are A LOT of externals that have stop-gap help files without any descriptions (or even example patches).
-Jonathan
This way one could easily index externals and abstractions...
abstractions are types of external-- at least I treat them the same by assuming they should all have their own help patches. (Although they do get tagged with the keyword "abstraction" so one could narrow a search that way.)
I had hacked a python script to create a single html page of an extrernals dir a while back but it was pretty crude.
Lorenzo
On 6 Dec 2010, at 07:56, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Hi, What do people think of the little "Tip of the Day" windows that are in some software? Are they helpful? Annoying?
<delurk> Mostly annoying, except in software I don't know yet :)
I especially like ones that mix the usual newbie tips with a few gems, so that from time to time you'll go "ooooh, I didn't know that!", making it fun.
Either way, I made one in Pd.
Seems like this could be useful to beginners. And at the moment they're no longer useful one can just turn them off. (Or they could be turned off by default and live in the help window.)
Judging from my experience of looking at click logs and reading usability stuff, no newbie will turn them on (hence the importance of sensible defaults, the vast majority of users doesn't change anything when they're just starting). When they finally feel they can go around toggling things, perhaps they won't need it anymore, so I would say on by default, with an option to turn it off, like you say.
</delurk>
Cheers,
Pedro
On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Hi, What do people think of the little "Tip of the Day" windows that are in some software? Are they helpful? Annoying?
Either way, I made one in Pd.
Seems like this could be useful to beginners. And at the moment they're no longer useful one can just turn them off. (Or they could be turned off by default and live in the help window.)
A prototype is attached. [hcs/folder_list] and [ggee/button] are the externals used.
-Jonathan
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Andras
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular -lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single call to canvas_open or similar.
And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or external, so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
2010/12/6 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just
me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular -lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single call to canvas_open or similar.
Yea, but i cannot help Jonathan with that. What "makes it make sense" however, is that it starts up automatically. One can also modify his/her pd icon so that it starts up with the patch.
And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or external,
Honestly, you are to first to tell me this, but i'm not so old and haven't really been around the world so much.
so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
Sir I will be Sir. Let me add that i'd reserve the name 'plugin' for things that are pluggable into an API and that is something me and Hans may have a different view about - for him (afaiu) it's almost an API, for me hardly an API. Nevertheless, it's cool. (I won't define 'cool' for you :o)
Andras
my two cents: It crossed my mind that many programs on the first run show you the 'preferences' window automatically. This is not always entirely useless if you ask me. I can imagine that in pd-extended for example, the first time you start it, you would be asked what externals you want loaded (I guess now it's 'all' by default?) and what sound driver, how many channels etc... A new user is not necessarily aware of all those settings, so having them presented automatically the first time can be a good thing. Maybe even the 'test audio and midi' patch could open automatically after that, so the new user can verify that his sound is working before trying anything else...? Of course this should only be shown at the first run, or have a check box to un-check 'show this at startup'... gr, Tim
2010/12/6 András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com
2010/12/6 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just
me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular -lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single call to canvas_open or similar.
Yea, but i cannot help Jonathan with that. What "makes it make sense" however, is that it starts up automatically. One can also modify his/her pd icon so that it starts up with the patch.
And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or external,
Honestly, you are to first to tell me this, but i'm not so old and haven't really been around the world so much.
so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
Sir I will be Sir. Let me add that i'd reserve the name 'plugin' for things that are pluggable into an API and that is something me and Hans may have a different view about - for him (afaiu) it's almost an API, for me hardly an API. Nevertheless, it's cool. (I won't define 'cool' for you :o)
Andras
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:33 PM, András Murányi wrote:
2010/12/6 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's
just me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into
something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like
a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to
make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be
happy to help you.Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular - lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single
call to canvas_open or similar.Yea, but i cannot help Jonathan with that. What "makes it make
sense" however, is that it starts up automatically. One can also
modify his/her pd icon so that it starts up with the patch.And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or
external,Honestly, you are to first to tell me this, but i'm not so old and
haven't really been around the world so much.so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
Sir I will be Sir. Let me add that i'd reserve the name 'plugin' for
things that are pluggable into an API and that is something me and
Hans may have a different view about - for him (afaiu) it's almost
an API, for me hardly an API. Nevertheless, it's cool. (I won't
define 'cool' for you :o)
hehe, its the beginnings of an API, it definitely needs work. :)
As for the Tip of the Day thing, they are common in software, so I
guess that some people like them. I think the idea is good, but
usually the way its presented is not the best. For example, when I
start an app, I am usually focused on something that I need to get
done, so I don't want to see a Tip of the Day screen. But perhaps
there is another better time for that, or it could easily be an item
on the Help menu.
.hc
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my
telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out
how to use my telephone." --Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++)
That is why all civilized tip-of-the-day dialog boxes have a don't-do-that (again) button.
-Theron ^
2010/12/9 Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at
On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:33 PM, András Murányi wrote:
2010/12/6 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just
me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular -lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single call to canvas_open or similar.
Yea, but i cannot help Jonathan with that. What "makes it make sense" however, is that it starts up automatically. One can also modify his/her pd icon so that it starts up with the patch.
And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or external,
Honestly, you are to first to tell me this, but i'm not so old and haven't really been around the world so much.
so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
Sir I will be Sir. Let me add that i'd reserve the name 'plugin' for things that are pluggable into an API and that is something me and Hans may have a different view about - for him (afaiu) it's almost an API, for me hardly an API. Nevertheless, it's cool. (I won't define 'cool' for you :o)
hehe, its the beginnings of an API, it definitely needs work. :)
As for the Tip of the Day thing, they are common in software, so I guess that some people like them. I think the idea is good, but usually the way its presented is not the best. For example, when I start an app, I am usually focused on something that I need to get done, so I don't want to see a Tip of the Day screen. But perhaps there is another better time for that, or it could easily be an item on the Help menu.
.hc
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone." --Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++)
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Therefore my tip-of-the-day patch has at least one sign of civilization.
-Jonathan
--- On Thu, 12/9/10, Theron Trowbridge theron.trowbridge@gmail.com wrote:
From: Theron Trowbridge theron.trowbridge@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Tip of the Day To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Thursday, December 9, 2010, 8:10 PM
That is why all civilized tip-of-the-day dialog boxes have a don't-do-that (again) button.
-Theron ^
2010/12/9 Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at
On Dec 6, 2010, at 4:33 PM, András Murányi wrote:
2010/12/6 Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca
On Mon, 6 Dec 2010, András Murányi wrote:
Annoying for me, even if i'm interested in the software. But that's just me. For those who find it useful, this could be developed into something that can really be started up when pd starts - sounds like a plugin? :op One way is to rewrite it as a plugin, another is to make a plugin which loads the patch at startup. Either way i'd be happy to help you.
Btw, it doesn't have to be a gui plugin, it can also be a regular -lib that doesn't contain any externals, but instead, just a single call to canvas_open or similar.
Yea, but i cannot help Jonathan with that. What "makes it make sense" however, is that it starts up automatically. One can also modify his/her pd icon so that it starts up with the patch.
And btw, lots of people use the word «plugin» to mean library or external, Honestly, you are to first to tell me this, but i'm not so old and haven't really been around the world so much.
so, if by plugin, you mean gui plugin, you ought to be more specific.
Sir I will be Sir. Let me add that i'd reserve the name 'plugin' for things that are pluggable into an API and that is something me and Hans may have a different view about - for him (afaiu) it's almost an API, for me hardly an API. Nevertheless, it's cool. (I won't define 'cool' for you :o)
hehe, its the beginnings of an API, it definitely needs work. :) As for the Tip of the Day thing, they are common in software, so I guess that some people like them. I think the idea is good, but usually the way its presented is not the best. For example, when I start an app, I am usually focused on something that I need to get done, so I don't want to see a Tip of the Day screen. But perhaps there is another better time for that, or it could easily be an item on the Help menu.
.hc
I have always wished for my computer to be as easy to use as my telephone; my wish has come true because I can no longer figure out how to use my telephone." --Bjarne Stroustrup (creator of C++)
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-
András Murányi -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Pedro Figueiredo -
Richie Cyngler -
Theron Trowbridge -
tim vets