Pd-list November 2021

pd-list@lists.iem.at

40 participants
50 discussions

Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 200, Issue 47
by Dan Wilcox 22 Nov '21

22 Nov '21

+1 Also, here's another point for how important non-development contributions are to the community in general. > On Nov 22, 2021, at 9:43 PM, pd-list-request(a)lists.iem.at wrote: > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 12:20:18 -0800 > From: Miller Puckette <msp(a)ucsd.edu <mailto:msp@ucsd.edu>> > To: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres(a)gmail.com <mailto:porres@gmail.com>> > Cc: Pd-List <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at <mailto:pd-list@lists.iem.at>> > Subject: Re: [PD] Pure Data FLOSS Manual has been renamed to > Pd-extended FLOSS Manual (was Re: mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a > message on behalf of Pd's community) > Message-ID: <YZv7grIo2m0nLCIn(a)ucsd.edu <mailto:YZv7grIo2m0nLCIn@ucsd.edu>> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Thanks for this - I think lots of people were getting confused, thinking > Pd extended was Pd and then concluding the whole thing was unmaintained. > > cheers > Miller -------- Dan Wilcox @danomatika <http://twitter.com/danomatika> danomatika.com <http://danomatika.com/> robotcowboy.com <http://robotcowboy.com/>

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mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a message on behalf of Pd's community
by Alexandre Torres Porres 22 Nov '21

22 Nov '21

Dear 'mickfuzz', on behalf of The Pd community, I'm getting in touch with you (on this email copied to the Pd-list) in order for us to discuss the future of Pd's FLOSS Manuals as a community. Many of us would like to work on a revision of this manual or maybe, in fact, use a whole new platform for tutorials. For reference, please check an earlier thread on the email list https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2021-05/129652.html It is our understanding that the FLOSS Manuals, as it is, it's very outdated and should be archived for historical purposes. It is a manual based on Pd-extended. In fact, there is already an archived version of the manual here: http://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/ Right now, the new FLOSS Manual that you seem to have created and maintain is just the same as the archived version, see: http://write.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/introduction2/ Again, one idea is to just delete this, keep the archived version, and we work on a new one somewhere else. This is because I, for one, can't even create a new account on FLOSS to start working on it. I tried getting in touch to create a new account and nothing happened. Please get back to the Pd list so we can discuss what we should and could do as a community. If for some reason we don't hear from you and the new version of the manual stays as it (the same as the archived version), we'll disconsider this new version/link in puredata.info and just keep a link to the archived version and work on new similar tutorials as a community somewhere else. thanks Alex

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Re: [PD] mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a message on behalf of Pd's community
by ol＠ogeem.be 22 Nov '21

22 Nov '21

hello, I would agree with this (good to have other sources) and will add that the French version has been updated to the latest(ish) state of the pd ecosystem, and will be updated when / where necessary (I'll try to keep it up) to keep a current (french) ressource available with a didactic introduction to concepts (and not just a technical reference) https://fr.flossmanuals.net/puredata best, Olm-e > 3. Re: mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a message on behalf of > Pd's community (Jos? de Abreu) > > > Message: 3 > Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2021 10:36:17 -0300 > From: Jos? de Abreu <abreubacelar(a)gmail.com> > To: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres(a)gmail.com> > Cc: Pd-List <pd-list(a)lists.iem.at> > Subject: Re: [PD] mickfuzz's Pure Data FLOSS Manual, a message on > behalf of Pd's community > Message-ID: > <CAPy0DupFXFFO-VKBt7kHtDoZ0r3V-nG7bUSoGgrd9xX0F5zoFQ(a)mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Em seg., 22 de nov. de 2021 ?s 09:41, Alexandre Torres Porres < > porres(a)gmail.com> escreveu: > >> A follow up to the Pd-list. This wasn't all too easy and it was a bit >> clumsy, but I gave my best as an internet stalker and was able to find >> information on who 'micckfuzz' is, where he teaches, his work email, >> and >> got a response. Long story short: I'm now able to edit the FLOSS >> Manuals >> book! >> >> But seriously, besides its tutorial (many of which I also have >> problems >> with, not to mention how outdated they are), I just think we need to >> forget >> about a second and parallel Manual on the wild and bring things to >> Pd's >> actual manual. >> >> > Hello, congratulations! and i disagree to this point, so i want to say > why > it is good to have a second pd "manual". > > First of all, Floss manuals, while the name is "manuals" and you > already > said on the other e-mail that it is more a place with tutorials than an > actual manual to pd, it is a place that don't live inside pd (i mean, > it > isn't in the pd sources), and this has potential of documenting things > that > doesn't need to live with pd. > > For example, we can talk properly about pd forks, the differences > between > them, we can teach people how to install some fork, we can create > tutorials > about externals, and put content that could make people easily choose > some > external for something specific that they want to do in their projects > (this is something that would also make the experience with deken > better, > people could go to floss and search for some topic, and find which > externals would need to use following some tutorial, and then download > them > from deken following instructions, this would be great for people > arriving > at pd!). > > A second pd place would be great to put tutorials where the community > can > create and teach all sort of things, from basic examples of doing a > simple, > but complete project, explain some concept going from the start to end > doing it in practice, gather information pointing to other sites with > other > tutorials (think about "read more:" and put some links to other places > explaining the same subject, some relevant discussions on pd forum, > relevant e-mails, maybe even links without using pd at all, why not?). > > I see potential in having such a place for the community. This > simplifies > the scope of the official manual to explain how pd works, make a > reference > for the objects and also a good start for beginners on how to use the > software, and point floss manuals as a place to see and learn more, and > contribute with more content too. > > Having said that, i think we should update floss, make it point to the > official manual whenever possible to read about the references, and > make it > work together with the official manual. A truly beginner in computer > music > would benefit to learn basic concepts using pd, and maybe the pd manual > isn't the right place for that, but a tutorial using pd to teach these > basic concepts would work along with learning how to use the software, > and > i think floss is the place for that type of information. > > > >> I'll see now how to invite others to this. >> >> Anyway, we have a new github page where we're discussing documentation >> things, for those interested, see >> https://github.com/pure-data/pddp/issues/22 >> >> cheers! >> >> Em s?b., 20 de nov. de 2021 ?s 21:10, Alexandre Torres Porres < >> porres(a)gmail.com> escreveu: >> >>> Dear 'mickfuzz', on behalf of The Pd community, I'm getting in touch >>> with you (on this email copied to the Pd-list) in order for us to >>> discuss >>> the future of Pd's FLOSS Manuals as a community. Many of us would >>> like to >>> work on a revision of this manual or maybe, in fact, use a whole new >>> platform for tutorials. >>> >>> For reference, please check an earlier thread on the email list >>> https://lists.puredata.info/pipermail/pd-list/2021-05/129652.html >>> >>> It is our understanding that the FLOSS Manuals, as it is, it's very >>> outdated and should be archived for historical purposes. It is a >>> manual >>> based on Pd-extended. In fact, there is already an archived version >>> of the >>> manual here: http://archive.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/ Right now, >>> the >>> new FLOSS Manual that you seem to have created and maintain is just >>> the >>> same as the archived version, see: >>> http://write.flossmanuals.net/pure-data/introduction2/ >>> >>> Again, one idea is to just delete this, keep the archived version, >>> and we >>> work on a new one somewhere else. This is because I, for one, can't >>> even >>> create a new account on FLOSS to start working on it. I tried getting >>> in >>> touch to create a new account and nothing happened. >>> >>> Please get back to the Pd list so we can discuss what we should and >>> could >>> do as a community. >>> >>> If for some reason we don't hear from you and the new version of the >>> manual stays as it (the same as the archived version), we'll >>> disconsider >>> this new version/link in puredata.info and just keep a link to the >>> archived version and work on new similar tutorials as a community >>> somewhere >>> else. >>> >>> thanks >>> Alex >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >

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Pd in cross-platform frameworks
by Jakob 21 Nov '21

21 Nov '21

Dear list, Has anyone of you heard/seen of a possibilty to integrate a pd patch into a cross-platform framework ? My goal is to have an app for android and ios with the (more or less) same gui. The sound engine, however, should be an existing pd patch. The gui-code from the cross-platform framework needs to communicate with the patch. Thanks and best regards, Jakob

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why not adding other boxes like gatom from objects?
by Alexandre Torres Porres 19 Nov '21

19 Nov '21

Hi, I wonder what's the reasoning to not be able to load something like a gatom from an object. this is more of a curiosity. I'd like to be able to do that, but I don't have a compelling case/reasoning cheers

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Hide backslash escapes in symbol atoms
by Roman Haefeli 19 Nov '21

19 Nov '21

Hi all It's just a cosmetic thing, nevertheless it concerns me. Up to 0.50, usage of whitespaces in symbol atoms was good. As in: Whitespaces could be used while typing into symbol atoms and the displayed value showed only the whitespaces without the backslashes for escaping them, while saving symbols containing whitespaces in text would add the backslashes as a way to preserve the symbol for next read. Since 0.51, things regarding backslashes are quite messy. Backslashes are hidden in iemgui labels, but displayed in symbol atoms and print output. There is/was an issue about that on Github which I'm unable to spot right now that contained a lengthy discussion about the pros and cons of the current (imho: messy) situation. I don't quite understand if the change between 0.50 and 0.51 was intentional or simply a side effect of other fixes. However, I would very much prefer to get the old behavior back. I propose to distinguish the FUDI-encoded value from the FUDI-decoded value. As long as the message is FUDI-encoded - I write it down to a file or I send through the network - the backslashes should be kept. However, when I decode the FUDI message, for instance, when I take a symbol from a message and display it with a symbol atom, the backslash should not be displayed, since I want to display the decoded value. Otherwise there is no way to ever get back the decoded value. I'm not sure about [print], but considering it already skips the 'list' selector for lists starting with a number or the 'float' selector for number messages, I consider it to display the decoded value and thus it should display symbols without backslash escaping. Roman

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exhibition in Folkestone UK from 2021-11-26 to 2021-12-11
by Claude Heiland-Allen 19 Nov '21

19 Nov '21

some of my computer based art works (including a couple of Pd pieces) from 2008-2021 are exhibited soon https://mathr.co.uk/smoltech/#exhibition <https://fractalforums.org/index.php?action=seored;u=aHR0cHM6Ly9tYXRoci5jby5…> CT20, 73 Tontine Street, Folkestone CT20 1JR, United Kingdom, http://ct-20.org <https://fractalforums.org/index.php?action=seored;u=aHR0cDovL2N0LTIwLm9yZw==> opening Friday 26th November 2021, 7pm artist talk Saturday 4th December 2021, 5pm until Saturday 11th December 2021 the greenest technology is the one you already have > ... One thing I've noticed when developing new work, is that the computational load performed by the piece has tendency to expand to fill the computational power available to it. ... So there is this temptation to buy a new, faster machine. I've fallen for it a few times. But now I think I have had enough of new technology, especially given the climate catastrophe that is approaching fast. We need to stop making and buying so much new hardware and use the hardware we have for much longer ... curated by Laura Netz

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JOIN ASAP!!! $$$
by Dominguez, El Ray 19 Nov '21

19 Nov '21

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Fwd: pdmax - broken pipe in macos?
by Christof Ressi 17 Nov '21

17 Nov '21

sorry, forgot to post on the list. -------- Forwarded Message -------- Subject: Re: [PD] pdmax - broken pipe in macos? Date: Wed, 17 Nov 2021 16:09:32 +0100 From: Christof Ressi <info(a)christofressi.com> To: Lucas Cordiviola <lucarda27(a)hotmail.com> The white space issue should have been fixed a while ago: https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/commit/09fae95c21ae513e7f76127b313c1… Christof On 17.11.2021 15:49, Lucas Cordiviola wrote: > > This is probably unrelated but worth trying: > > When you get "broken pipe" did it worked in the first place?. i.e it > was running and you got the error or you get the error as son as you > start it? > > If you got it as soon as started it could "probably" be that there's > "white space" somewhere in Pd's path? > > > > -- > > Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. > On 11/17/2021 11:36 AM, João Pais wrote: >> :) I do work on windows, but this issue happens only with macOs >> (which I don't have at home, and maybe now and then would be able to >> get access to). >> >> I can try to have a look, next time I'm near a mac computer. >> As my past experience following build instructions is close to 90% >> unsuccess rate - because something is missing in the instructions -, >> any time I see an error I just abort the whole process and don't try >> it anymore. It's usually too much effort and no practical benefit. >> >> D'oh. I don't know why I though Joao was on Windows... Thanks for >> the correction! >> >> Note that lldb is the clang debugger and it works slightly >> different than GDB. But you can do the same things. >> >> On 17.11.2021 15:07, Lucas Cordiviola wrote: >>> >>> @Christof, >>> >>> I think Joao is needing the *macOS* pdmax. >>> >>> @Joao, >>> >>> Everything that Christof said applies if you follow the macOS part: >>> >>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt >>> >>> you just need to install xcode with this command on a terminal: >>> >>> xcode-select --install >>> >>> macOS debugger is included and its called (and invoked with) "lldb". >>> >>> I used it one or two times only. I'm not a mac user. >>> >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Mensaje telepatico asistido por maquinas. >>> On 11/17/2021 10:32 AM, Christof Ressi wrote: >>>> >>>> You would have to build the pdmax external from source with >>>> debug symbols to get meaningful information in the debugger. >>>> This means you would need to setup Msys2, as described in the >>>> "Windows" section in >>>> https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/blob/master/INSTALL.txt. >>>> >>>> Actually, if the aim is to only get a stacktrace, it is not >>>> necessary to install a graphical frontend for GDB, you can also >>>> run GDB from the command line. >>>> >>>> I you never compiled somthing from source it can be a bit >>>> overwhelming at first, but it's a valuable skill to have. There >>>> are a few Windows people on the list who can help you out >>>> (including myself). >>>> >>>> So I would say it's not trivial, but also not impossible :-) >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> That's what I'm doing to debug subprocesses (I also needed to >>>> do this with [vstplugin~] a few times): >>>> >>>> 1) run Pd with DSP off and start the subprocess (here: [pd~ start() >>>> >>>> 2) find the PID of the subprocess, e.g. with "tasklist | grep >>>> <name>" or with ProcessExplorer >>>> >>>> 3) attach to the subprocess; terminal: >>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/14370972/how-to-attach-a-process-in-gdb; >>>> Qt Creator: "Start Debuggin" -> "Attach to Running Application" >>>> >>>> 4) turn on DSP and wait for the subprocess to crash >>>> >>>> If the subprocess crashes immediately even with DSP turned off, >>>> things are a bit harder. >>>> >>>> --- >>>> >>>> If you can build pdmax with Visual Studio (I don't know if this >>>> is supported?) then things are even easier because VS has a >>>> very good built-in graphical debugger that can also attach to >>>> running applications. >>>> >>>> Christof >>>> >>>> On 17.11.2021 14:04, João Pais wrote: >>>>> is that something a "normal user" like me (someone that only >>>>> uses the surface of the software) can do, or it has to do with >>>>> C or any other custom compiled/prepared versions? >>>>> >>>>> On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 at 01:06, Christof Ressi >>>>> <info(a)christofressi.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> You can attach GDB to a running or even a not-yet-running >>>>> application. >>>>> When that application crashes, you get a backtrace. That's >>>>> how I found >>>>> the crash in the [pd~] subprocess. >>>>> >>>>> Personally, I use Qt Creator because it has a nice >>>>> graphical front-end >>>>> for GDB where I can easily step through functions while >>>>> looking at the >>>>> code, watch local variables, etc. >>>>> >>>>> Christof >>>>> >>>>> On 17.11.2021 00:49, Miller Puckette via Pd-list wrote: >>>>> > If by any chance you're using pd 0.52 (test version) >>>>> then I think >>>>> > it can crash when used as a subprocess (this should be >>>>> fixed for the next >>>>> > test release). If you're using Pd 0.51-4 the problem is >>>>> something else. >>>>> > >>>>> > The "broken pipe" message means the subprocess died >>>>> suddenly for some reason. >>>>> > But I can't think of an easy way to figure out what >>>>> killed it. >>>>> > >>>>> > cheers >>>>> > Miller >>>>> > >>>>> > On Sat, Nov 06, 2021 at 08:45:28PM +0100, João Pais wrote: >>>>> >> Hello list, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ >>>>> object. But I'm getting >>>>> >> the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as: >>>>> >> >>>>> >> - in a compiled standalone it usually works >>>>> >> >>>>> >> - in the original patch it doesn't >>>>> >> >>>>> >> - both patches were made in the same system, with the >>>>> latest pdmax and pd >>>>> >> versions were used. I'm not sure anymore which max >>>>> version or macos system >>>>> >> was used to compile the standalone, if that's important >>>>> (it was either max 7 >>>>> >> or 8). >>>>> >> >>>>> >> I don't have access to a mac myself, but the system >>>>> where it was tested was >>>>> >> a 11.6, with Max 8. It seems to me that in some systems >>>>> it works, and in >>>>> >> other it doesn't - but I don't have enough hard data to >>>>> prove it. >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Best, >>>>> >> >>>>> >> Joao >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> >>>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>>> >> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_li… >>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.puredata.info_li…> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >>>>> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >>> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> >> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list >> UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list > > _______________________________________________ > Pd-list(a)lists.iem.at mailing list > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

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pdmax - broken pipe in macos?
by João Pais 17 Nov '21

17 Nov '21

Hello list, I have a max patch with pd inside through the pd~ object. But I'm getting the "broken pipe" error in some cases in a mac, such as: - in a compiled standalone it usually works - in the original patch it doesn't - both patches were made in the same system, with the latest pdmax and pd versions were used. I'm not sure anymore which max version or macos system was used to compile the standalone, if that's important (it was either max 7 or 8). I don't have access to a mac myself, but the system where it was tested was a 11.6, with Max 8. It seems to me that in some systems it works, and in other it doesn't - but I don't have enough hard data to prove it. Best, Joao

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Pd-list November 2021