Pd-list February 2009

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115 participants
182 discussions

Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions
by IOhannes m zmoelnig 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Rory Walsh wrote: > Thanks IOhannes. I'll be happy soon I feel. If I understand correctly, > by changing the names of the GUI's receive symbol to $0-tgl-1 and then > using that symbol of '$0-tgl-1' as a send everything should be > hunky-dory? I'm afraid it's still not working as I expect, I get a > load of "error: 0-tgl-1: no such object" whenever I try to send a > message with that symbol. I've attached an updated abstraction. If I > can get this to work its going to really simplify my crazy > abstraction. > you are violating the 3rd rule of $-expansion: "there is no $0 in message-boxes". furthermore: why do you need to _send_ things like color? just connecting the color message to the [bng] would be so much easier. fgmasdr IOhannes

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Crasher bug found...
by Luke Iannini 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Well, I'll let you all confirm that before I truly say so : ). But, by sheer luck, I'm hoping I've found the memory-corruption bug causing my pd abstractions to be so unstable (as I've lamented quite a few times). Hopefully this is narrowed down enough to be useful Miller! (I'm happy to pare it down further if there are too many extraneous objects) Basically, open ds-slider-o-help.pd (which contains 10 copies of the GOP ds-slider-o.pd abstraction) and click the [CLICK TO CRASH( message which is connected to a [send] object with no destination. Assigning a destination prevents the crash. This would certainly make sense for my issues, as I use a ton of [s ] objects without arguments and it's likely that somewhere, one of them isn't being set properly. I attached one of the crashlogs as well, which starts at "0 pd 0x00039cbe pd_typedmess + 142 (m_class.c:696)", but note that I also saw the "0 ??? ..." style crash as well that I'm assuming is indicative of corrupted memory? I've tested this in Pd-extended 0.40 and in the latest Pd 0.42-3. Best Luke

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Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions
by Georg Werner 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Hi, i mean message boxes. i think there is the misunderstanding. you dont send $1 as a message, too. not as message nor creation argument. its an expanded string inside an object or when it leaves a messagebox. georg IOhannes m zmoelnig schrieb: > On Fri, Feb 06, 2009 at 11:08:05PM +0100, Georg Werner wrote: >> hi, >> >> can somebody explain why there is a "3rd rule of $-expansion: 'there is >> no $0 in message-boxes'". >> i stumble every now and then about it and it is IMHO not >> self-explanatory. it is not hard to implement and wouldn't make problems >> with existing patches - because $0 is never used in messages. and would >> make things easier not only for beginners. > > please explain what "$0 in messages" would mean to you. > (note that i say "message" not "message-box" here). > > if a message is just a context-free .. message, then it cannot have a notion of $0. > a message-box is just a way to write down a message. > > mga.sdr > IOhannes > > >> just my 2 cents. >

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Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions
by Matt Barber 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

> From: Frank Barknecht <fbar(a)footils.org> > > [1] Actually the $-variables 1,2,3,... in message boxes and those in > object boxes aren't that different, because the contents of object > boxes also are messages to Pd's objectmaker and they are used > explicitely as messages when doing dynamic patching. > Yes, this is the case -- and probably one of the more elegant parts of Pd -- but I still think this has less to do with Pd as an expressive language and more to do with how it's implemented. Even so, I think that a message box is not a message, any more than a message to objectmaker is an object; either way the $ values mean something different in each context -- in the messages to objectmaker they ultimately function more like environment variables or script arguments, where in message boxes they're a little more like substitution placeholders in something like a macro or a sed command. I think the current $0 meaning is consistent with this interpretation. I think my argument might be somewhat different if dynamic patching were fully supported with an official API - a huge step would be the ability to destroy individual objects with messages (can you?)... Matt

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div vs. / & i
by Jonathan Wilkes 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

This is puzzling me. I've been using [div] as the equivalent to [/] | [int] But I just noticed while scrolling in a number box that they aren't the same when the dividend is negative. In the source for [div], I see this before doing the division: if (n1 < 0) n1 -= (n2-1); I feel like I'm missing something obvious. Why does [div] behave this way? Thanks, Jonathan

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Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions
by Matt Barber 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

[f $0]-[message $1( is conceptually different from [message $0( for the same reason that [f $2]-[message $1( is conceptually different from [message $2( (and would be, even if $0 had any meaning in a message box). When I teach I always start with dollar-sign expansion in message-boxes, since it's simpler and easier to comprehend. Then when this issue comes up when they move to dollar-sign expansion in abstractions (and it always does come up), you can help them think it through with what they already know about message boxes. I only see two options: one is to use a different dereference symbol for abstraction arguments in message boxes -- but why worry with that since it's easy enough to get abstraction arguments into messages at "run-time?" -- the other is to make an exception and have special behavior for $0 in message boxes (that is, make it the same as in object boxes) -- but then this probably breaks the consistency of the language. Matt > Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2009 13:33:36 +0100 > From: Georg Werner <georg(a)fricklr.de> > Subject: Re: [PD] here I go again..dynamic abstractions > To: pd-list(a)iem.at > Message-ID: <499022A0.7080702(a)fricklr.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > hi, > > Frank Barknecht: > > How about making $0 in messages be a message counter? > if somebody really needs that - i dont ;) > > ok, i give up. i think we are on a rather philosophical point now. > but i had a lot of times when students where asking why they have to > write [f $0]-[foobar $1( instead of [foobar $0(. so this came up from a > users point of view. > after getting all your input (thanks). i think Claude brought up the > most logical solution, because this makes the different functions of $ > obvious and obsolete. And it would help users and devs. (i know it will > be a long way - cause it will break some patches ... :( ) > > $ in message boxes is unfortunate. If there was a different symbol, > > perhaps #, you could combine both phases in one object box to avoid > > jumping through pointless hoops. > > [$0-#1-$2-#3( would be nice, but as Pd is now, it's a nightmare. > > not a nightmare, but this is one point why Pd is harder to learn for > beginners than it has to. > georg

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resizing samples, noob question
by Andrew Faraday 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Hey guysI'm trying to create a patch that play samples 'at speed' but which is then variable. I need an equation to turn the number of samples in a table into the length of the sound file in seconds. Using this I should be able to divide one by the number of seconds and use that figure to set the speed of a phasor~ object for correct speed playback, is that right? what's the equation?God BlessAndrew _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live Messenger just got better .Video display pics, contact updates & more. http://www.download.live.com/messenger

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problem with pd extended
by bigswift＠cox.net 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Hi Just installed Ubuntu 8.10 and when i try either pd extended on the download site i get unresolved dependencies with libLame0 on one installer and libgsl0 on the other anyone know where i can find these? I built lame from source and installed but that did not help i assume i need the -dev files as well please advise pp Patrick Pagano Digital Media Engineer Digital Worlds Institute University of Florida

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escape space character
by y 10 Feb '09

10 Feb '09

Hello. (Sorry if this is a stoopid question but I could not find any answer on the list...) How can I escape the space character in a symbol ???? '\' is forbidden in pd... so what's the alternative ? It looks like ' and " are also not allowed... Cheers. _y

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limit in number of sssad abstraction
by punchik punchik 09 Feb '09

09 Feb '09

hello list, is there is a limit in the number of sssad abstractions that can be used in a patch, im using 50 sssad abstractions in a patch and when i save to a text file my pd crashes(but it still save fine the file), and then when i try to load the textfile- preset it loads fine but i get stack overflow messages, when my patch had 20 sssad abstractions it used to work fine. why is that? Is the problem the number of sssad abstractions im using? is there anyway of fixing this? Do anybody have any idea? im using pd extended 0.40.3 many thanks pun.

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Pd-list February 2009