Pd-list February 2007

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148 participants
295 discussions

Re: [PD] measuring distance between speaker and microphon
by Roman Haefeli 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

hi mikka thank you very much for all that detailed information and sorry for my late reply. i didn't have too much time and i really wanted to have a closer look at this before answering. i am on linux, so i couldn't test your external. but from what you describe in your mail, it follows a similar approach i tried as well, the only difference is that yours obviously works, whereas i've had bad luck yet with my tests ;-). maybe i am wrong, but i believe that the method you describe could be implemented in plain pd without using externals (this is at least what i hope). am i right in thinking that the analysis part of your external also high pass filters the incoming signal from the mic and the measures the time, until a certain amplitude of the signal is triggered? i have many problems implement this nicely. the main problem is i think is, that i maybe should do the trigger mechanism adaptively, so that it works on changing levels. how is that done in your external? if you don't mind, it would be nice to have the source code of your external, so that i could at least try to compile it, though i am not a programmer myself and maybe i fail without a ready-made makefile. but it's sure worth a try. thank you again for sharing all that information about this topic. best roman On Wed, 2007-02-14 at 16:51 +0200, Miikka Tikander wrote: > Hi, > > I made some externals for binaural acoustic positioning for my work > some time ago and it also included some externals for acoustic > distance measurements. I was supposed to polish them up to be > published on my website but I never got that far... Anyway, here's > one simple patch with one of the distance measurement externals. > > The external is an OSX version but I know I have a linux version > somewhere as well. If needed I can try to find it and send it as > well, or maybe I'll send the source so people can compile it > themselves if interested. It should be compilable WIN and Linux as well. > > > As there's no documentation in the patch, here's a brief > documentation for the patch and the external. > > The DIST_HP~ external sends high-passed (> 17 kHz) impulses from the > loudspeaker and then measures the fly-time of these impulses to two > microphones (here input channels 1 and 2). The slider on the upper > right hand corner (Impuse interval) sets the time interval (in 64 > sample blocks) of the impulses, that is, how often the distance is > measured. > > The last two outlets of the DIST_HP gives out the distance of the > microphones to the loudspeaker in meters. I put a mean and a median > filter on there as well to smooth the data but you may use whatever > is appropriate. The distance is computed in sample accuracy. > > The 'free_distance_in_meters' -outlet transforms the impulse time > interval to a physical distance. This, in principal, should be > greater than the longest microphone-loudspeaker distance you will use. > > The calibration is done by using the calibration_latency -number on > the left. Place a microphone to a known distance from the loudspeaker > and then tune the calibration_latency so that the measured distance > is correct. Increasing the latency increases the measured distance. > The measured distance cycles from 0 to the free_distance_in_meters. > So, when increase the calibration_latency and the measured distance > reaches the free_distance_in_meters it will go back to zero and > continue from there. > > The volume slider sets the output volume of the impulses. Note, that > the impulses are high passed above 17 kHz so actually not everybody > will here them! Be cautious with the volume. The whole idea of using > higher frequency range was to make the impulses inaudible, and to > avoid interference from room reflection and from other sounds as > well. I have a version which uses full band impulses as well, but > then the reflections start to worsen things.. > > You must use 44,1 kHz sampling frequency. > > > > Hope, it works and is usable. Once I get little extra time, I'll try > to get the rest of the stuff organized and documented so I can > publish them here as well. Any feedback or criticism is always welcome. > > > -miikka > > > > > > > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 2:18 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote: > > > hi all > > > > i'd like to create a patch, that measures the distance between the > > speaker and the microphone. my first problem is, that i don't know > > which > > kind of signal would be suitable for that purpose. the simplest is to > > use a dirac impulse. but on the receiver-side it's hard to separate > > unwanted artefacts from the impulse itself. also it would be nice, > > if it > > would be possible to detect the signal reliably at different > > amplitudes, > > since the amplitude heavily changes when moving the mic closer to and > > farer from the speaker. i am looking for a method, that allows higher > > precision than the usual block-size (which introduces a grid of > > ~0.5m @ > > 44100Hz, which is not very accurate). also should it be possible to > > detect the signal correctly, when there was reverberation added from a > > room. i know, there are ultrasonic-bases devices to measure a distance > > to a wall, but i don't have clue how they work, but it makes me hope, > > that something similar is possible with pd. any hints are much > > appreciated. > > > > roman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > > Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! > > Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > PD-list(a)iem.at mailing list > > UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ > > listinfo/pd-list > ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

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problem with pd installation in Debian (pdp and mp3 stuff)
by Marco Trevisani 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

really sorry for duplicated messages.... i had a problem with the mailer and the first was shot... with no subject (not good for the archive) Hi everybody, i had to make an installation from scratch on a laptop. a clean debian, unstable installation. i ran into these two problems, the first one regarding PDP: PDP INIT ERROR: pd symbol clash adding symbol pdp: new=b7d019f0 old=08244098 try loading pdp before other libraries (i think i treid to load pdp before anything else with the same result). the second question i checked the debian alternative repository for pdp, the caedes one. Is there any particular reason to pick this one rather than the official debian? ( the number release seems to be the same). Second problem: all the set mp3/cast/live/streammin/streammout are reporting problem with "unresolved symbols" (below the actual report from PD-shell). any clues...? thank you, marco trevisani /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3amp~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3amp~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: InitMP3 mp3amp~ ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3cast~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3cast~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3cast~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamout~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamout~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3streamout~ ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamin~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamin~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: InitMP3 mp3streamin~ 5000 1 ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3fileout~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3fileout~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: head_check mp3fileout~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3write~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3write~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3write~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) ------- End of Forwarded Message -------

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pmpd message unhandled
by marius schebella 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

hi, someone posted that error recently, I get the same error on pd extended test7 (osx intel) with msd2D msd3D. seems those 2 object just cannot handle the bang message. marius.

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Re: [PD] object box widths
by robbert van hulzen 20 Feb '07

20 Feb '07

another thing you could use is '-': just add as many as you need to whatever creation args you have in the box already [ojb x --------]. i suppose this is a dummy argument just like what derek suggested, but i find it easier to see that it doesn't do anything this way. robbert Item State <itemstatechanged(a)yahoo.de> wrote: > hello, > > how can i have an object box grow so i can access the > outlets when there are many? > > like [gate 8], how can i resize this to see the > individual outlets? > > thanks, -sciss-

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Re: metro vs. samm~
by schiemer＠uow.edu.au 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

Eric, your presentation on this at ICMC was such a highlight. I'll contact you offline. Greg S.

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N/A
by Marco Trevisani 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

Hi everybody, i had to make an installation from scratch on a laptop. a clean debian, unstable installation. i ran into these two problems, the first one regarding PDP: PDP INIT ERROR: pd symbol clash adding symbol pdp: new=b7d019f0 old=08244098 try loading pdp before other libraries (i think i treid to load pdp before anything else with the same result). the second question i checked the debian alternative repository for pdp, the caedes one. Is there any particular reason to pick this one rather than the official debian? ( the number release seems to be the same). Second problem: all the set mp3/cast/live/streammin/streammout are reporting problem with "unresolved symbols" (below the actual report from PD-shell). any clues...? thank you, marco trevisani /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3amp~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3amp~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: InitMP3 mp3amp~ ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3cast~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3cast~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3cast~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) ... you might be able to track this down from the Find menu. error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamout~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamout~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3streamout~ ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamin~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3streamin~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: InitMP3 mp3streamin~ 5000 1 ... couldn't create /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3fileout~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3fileout~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: head_check mp3fileout~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3write~.pd_linux: /usr/lib/pd/extra/mp3write~.pd_linux: undefined symbol: lame_get_num_channels mp3write~ ... couldn't create error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored) error: signal outlet connect to nonsignal inlet (ignored)

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Re: metro vs. samm~
by Eric Lyon 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

> With all this talk, it would be interesting to actually get a copy of > these externals to try them out. Are these posted somewhere? Thanks, http://www.sarc.qub.ac.uk/~elyon/LyonSoftware/Pd/ I haven't officially announced them yet since I've only compiled and tested on Macintosh (i86 and ppc) so far. Frank Barknecht informs me that the included Makefiles compile and work for Linux. Supposedly Windows compilation also works except that it is tricky to compile the few externals that use more than one file of source code. If anyone wants to build and send me versions for Linux or Windows I'll put them up at my site. This will all be released under the MIT licence when I get around to tidying things up. Best, Eric

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mp3cast~ again
by Richard Lewis 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

Hey there, I'm trying to use mp3cast~ with Icecast 1. Initially I had a patch where the settings messages ('passwd', 'mountpoint', etc.) for the mp3cast~ were sent when the patch was loaded and the 'connect' and 'disconnect' messages were sent in response to other events. In this setup I got all the expected messages from PD but I couldn't connect to the mp3 streams, my clients just said that Icecast was returning a 404 error. I wondered whether perhaps it might help if I sent all the settings messages every time I sent 'connect' so I altered my patch. Now, it tells me that I'm sending a "Bad Password". I tried altering the password in the icecast.conf file (which is very confusing and difficult on Debian) but it still doesn't like it. I wanted to tell makepasswd what password I wanted (by default it just makes up random passwords!) so I did this: $ echo apassword | makepasswd --verbose --crypt --clearfrom=- which seemed to work. I copied the encrypted version into my icecast.conf file. I guess thats right? In PD, can you send send messages in any particular order? If so, would it matter what order I sent the 'connect' and 'passwd' messages to mp3cast~? On the other hand, of course, that's probably not the problem anyway. Its more likely that my initial approach is best, I just need to find out why Icecast isn't serving up the mp3 streams... Cheers, Richard -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Richard Lewis Sonic Arts Research Archive http://www.sara.uea.ac.uk/ JID: ironchicken(a)jabber.earth.li -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

3 6

art projects realized with PD:
by Florian Grond 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

Dear list, During January and February 2007 I could present two media art projects here at the ZKM (center for art and media) www.zkm.de in Karlsruhe. Now the documentations of these presentations are online on my webpage. Both involve PD. The first installation "Als Hilbert merkte, dass der Morgen dÃ¤mmerte", was shown on January 6^th . If you want to learn more about it please follow this link (photos, texts, videos): www.grond.at/html/projects/als_hilbert_merkte/als_hilbert_merkte.htm <http://www.grond.at/html/projects/als_hilbert_merkte/als_hilbert_merkte.htm> The second installation "hear and now" was shown from January 28^th to February 4^th . Documentation about this installation you can find here (photos, texts, videos): www.grond.at/html/projects/hear_and_now/hear_and_now.htm <http://www.grond.at/html/projects/hear_and_now/hear_and_now.htm> Florian Grond -- /////// / |< ||| | ZKM | Zentrum fuer Kunst und Medientechnologie /////// / |< ||| | ZKM | Centre d'Art et Media /////// / |< ||| | ZKM | Center for Art and Media LorenzstraÃe 19 D- 76135 Karlsruhe Tel: +49. 721. 8100-1001 +49. 721. 9117430 Mob: +49. 177. 3099094 Fax: +49. 721. 8100-1709 www.grond.at

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[Fwd: Re: [PD] mp3cast~ again]
by Yves Degoyon 19 Feb '07

19 Feb '07

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Pd-list February 2007