On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote:
Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time?
I can see three complaints:
- Ugly UI (fine.)
- Lack of persistence of audio interface settings.
Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set
this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to
go. But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio
settings between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment
here is misleading.
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The
preferred way is to set them in your patch. IOhannes is currently
making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier.
Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
.hc
- "Crashes"
Crashes ... where?
As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of
vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?)Peter _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling
away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-
collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch.
Preferred by whom ?
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch.
IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The
preferred way is to set them in your patch.Preferred by whom ?
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings
when they send someone else a patch.
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have
done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless
the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential
property of the patch.
.hc
IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will
make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs'
lib.But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever
it is on whatever platform it is ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray,
Montréal, QC
http://at.or.at/hans/
--- On Tue, 3/8/11, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at wrote:
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at Subject: Re: [PD] Toughts on PD vs. Max stability on macintels on, analogindustries.com To: "Mathieu Bouchard" matju@artengine.ca Cc: "Peter Kirn" peter@createdigitalmedia.net, pd-list@iem.at Date: Tuesday, March 8, 2011, 12:43 AM
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You can definite make persistent audio interface
settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch.
Preferred by whom ?
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's
audio settings when they send someone else a patch.
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch.
I think you two are talking at cross-purposes.
For Audio API (OSS, ALSA, etc.):
You can choose the respective menu item, then set it up in the dialog window that pops up. Click "Save all settings" to... save all settings. Isn't that persistent audio interface settings?
Things I would normally set using the Media Menu: input devices, # of channels, whether or not to use multiple devices, delay.
Things I would set using the Media Menu OR some kind of in-patch mechanism: sample rate
But how would you set audio API, # of channels, etc. in-patch when it
depends on the hardware/software setup specific to that machine?
(Though I guess it could be useful for setting up a lab of 20 of the
same exact computers running identical OSes.)
-Jonathan
.hc
IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings'
library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings,
~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ----
Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
For Audio API (OSS, ALSA, etc.): You can choose the respective menu item, then set it up in the dialog window that pops up. Click "Save all settings" to... save all settings. Isn't that persistent audio interface settings?
D'oh, yeah, but I don't notice it, as I still rely on commandline flags, shell-scripts and alias-commands. I knew it was somewhere... ;)
Things I would normally set using the Media Menu: input devices, # of channels, whether or not to use multiple devices, delay.
But delay is a kind of in-between : it's at once very machine-dependent and very patch-dependent. Some patches are meant for low-latency, and some patches have to be high-latency to prevent drop-outs, but the actual amount can't really be decided in advance in a machine-independent way.
Things I would set using the Media Menu OR some kind of in-patch mechanism: sample rate
Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain sampling rates ?
(Side note : I thought that my soundcard was quite limited, but now I try to find a limit to the sampling rate that I can set, and I can't find one...?)
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Yep -- Pd will set teh logical sample rate to what you ask for, but the audio hardware might actually be running at a different rate -- Pd should report this but doesn't. In general I need to make audio errors and 'situations' more visible to t ieh user!
cheers Miller
(Side note : I thought that my soundcard was quite limited, but now I try to find a limit to the sampling rate that I can set, and I can't find one...?)
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Correct me if I'm wrong but the same applies to the bit rate, right? I don't know any sound intarface that work with more than 24-bit, but Pd make all the calculations in 32-bit and than the sound you hear is 24bits at most.
2011/3/8 Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu
Yep -- Pd will set teh logical sample rate to what you ask for, but the audio hardware might actually be running at a different rate -- Pd should report this but doesn't. In general I need to make audio errors and 'situations' more visible to t ieh user!
cheers Miller
(Side note : I thought that my soundcard was quite limited, but now I try to find a limit to the sampling rate that I can set, and I can't find one...?)
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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On 2011-03-08 14:35, Caio Barros wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the same applies to the bit rate, right? I don't know any sound intarface that work with more than 24-bit, but Pd make all the calculations in 32-bit and than the sound you hear is 24bits at most.
the word size is usually abstracted away by the audio API, very much unlike the sampleerate (which can be abstracted away or not)
fga,sdr IOhannes
Hi,
On Mon, Mar 07, 2011 at 10:46:02PM -0500, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
Right. But are some soundcards and/or drivers limited to only certain
sampling rates ?
Actually most soundcards only support a limited number of samplerates in their hardware, everything else then requires resampling in software. A common example are USB soundcards that often only support 48kHz or do not support high samplerates like 96kHz.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht Do You RjDj.me? _ ______footils.org__
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On 2011-03-08 00:43, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch.
hmm, most patches should be stable with regard to sample rate. so a patch that only works at 22kHz, could be considered buggy.
otoh, i guess you are aware of that, and it indeed was hard to create a sample-rate agnostic version of the patch without going through ugly hacks (most likely: soundfiles recorded at specific sr, and no built-in capabilities of Pd to resample)
finally: i've done plenty of patches that won't work at all if you only have stereo-output.
personally i don't know whether it is a good idea to force a patch from within the patch to run at certain settings. the user usually has a better idea of the capabilities of their hardware then the off-site developer.
the mediasettings library provides a programmatic way to change the settings, with possible userinteraction. the main target was to allow to implement persistent audio settings using alternative GUIs, rather than persistent audio settings when moving patches between hosts.
mediasettings has been developed for the IntegraLive project; there has been long discussion within the project whether audio-settings should be Patch specific or host specific (and i cannot remember the outcome).
i guess one should only try to set the parameters that are crucial (e.g. if you know that your patch will only run at 92kHz, only try to set the samplerate but don't try to change the device) mediasettings allows is (well it's designed to allow it; i hope it does)
fgmadr IOhannes
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch.
Preferred by whom ?
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch.
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch.
But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?
Lorenzo.
.hc
IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier. Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
But how can I edit that in ~/.pdsettings, ~/.pdextended, or whatever it is on whatever platform it is ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
http://at.or.at/hans/
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mar 8, 2011, at 4:43 AM, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The
preferred way is to set them in your patch.Preferred by whom ?
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings
when they send someone else a patch.I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I
have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work
right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an
essential property of the patch.But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?
Lorenzo.
Sure, its totally possible to make patches with samples work at any
sample rate, but usually this is a silly exercise in futility. For
example, in most of my sound design work, the sound is going to end up
as a 48k audio track to a video. Why would I work at anything but
48k? Sound cards have only a small set of supported sampling rates,
MP3s/etc. mostly use one sampling rate, etc.
.hc
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
On Tue, 8 Mar 2011, Lorenzo Sutton wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch.
But you can often use [samplerate~] in those situations no?
Not necessarily. Even things like [lop~] look like they aren't adapting well to the samplerate, even though they are computed using samplerate. However, I haven't dug deep enough to figure out whether it was really a [lop~] problem, or rather a [vd~]/[tabread4~] problem, or perhaps a problem with the very concept of sampling (that is, that we shouldn't expect too much from harmonics that are too close to Nyquist... and that starts a lot below Nyquist frequency).
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Mon, 7 Mar 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 7, 2011, at 6:19 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
I can't picture anyone wanting to set anyone else's audio settings when they send someone else a patch.
I guess you don't work in anything but 44100 sampling rates. I have done projects that use 22050 and 48k, and both won't work right unless the sampling rate is set correctly. Therefore its an essential property of the patch.
Ok, yeah, well, I do work in both 44100 and 22050, but I have nearly everything in 44100, and when I use 88200, it's only about part of the patch.
But anyway I was thinking more about stuff like -oss -audiodev -channels.
You are quite right about the sampling rate, but that means too bad for soundcards that don't support your patch.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Mar 7, 2011, at 1:28 PM, Peter Kirn wrote:
Okay, I'm with others here - what is Chris on this time?
I can see three complaints:
- Ugly UI (fine.)
- Lack of persistence of audio interface settings.
Actually, two comments here on that -- first, of course, you can set this as a command-line argument, which to me is the safest way to go. But secondly, maybe there's a reason Pd can't persist audio settings between sessions? No idea. Anyway, at best, his comment here is misleading.
You can definite make persistent audio interface settings. The preferred way is to set them in your patch. IOhannes is currently making a 'mediasettings' library which will make this much easier.
Otherwise see get-audio-dialog in the 'hcs' lib.
Otherwise just learn how to make a 1-line script, batch file or whatever it's called on MACs - uh
Lorenzo.
.hc
- "Crashes"
Crashes ... where?
As near as I can tell, this entire rant is about the stability of vst~. (Is vst~ even part of Vanilla?)
Peter _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-
Caio Barros -
Frank Barknecht -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Miller Puckette -
Peter Kirn