Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,
Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at the moment
also cmd-t or apple-t is now suddenly the font bomb instead of the
text editor why is that?
Am 04.12.2007 um 11:01 schrieb tim:
Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you
manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at the moment
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Max Neupert hat gesagt: // Max Neupert wrote:
also cmd-t or apple-t is now suddenly the font bomb instead of the
text editor why is that?
IIRC Hans changed that in pd-ext. to follow Apple's OS-X GUI guidelines instead of Pd's unwritten crossplatform GUI guidelines.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
Am 04.12.2007 um 13:55 schrieb Frank Barknecht:
Hallo, Max Neupert hat gesagt: // Max Neupert wrote:
also cmd-t or apple-t is now suddenly the font bomb instead of the text editor why is that?
IIRC Hans changed that in pd-ext. to follow Apple's OS-X GUI guidelines instead of Pd's unwritten crossplatform GUI guidelines.
i see. but in the menue still says: ^T for Text Editor and nothing
for the Font Bomb.
i think like this it's more confusing than a non-conformity to os-x
gui guidelines.
also it would be nice to have the text editor available as a key
command because this is the workaround for pd's more than imperfect
copy and paste capabilities.
max
On Dec 4, 2007, at 8:09 AM, Max Neupert wrote:
Am 04.12.2007 um 13:55 schrieb Frank Barknecht:
Hallo, Max Neupert hat gesagt: // Max Neupert wrote:
also cmd-t or apple-t is now suddenly the font bomb instead of the text editor why is that?
IIRC Hans changed that in pd-ext. to follow Apple's OS-X GUI guidelines instead of Pd's unwritten crossplatform GUI guidelines.
i see. but in the menue still says: ^T for Text Editor and nothing for the Font Bomb. i think like this it's more confusing than a non-conformity to os-x gui guidelines. also it would be nice to have the text editor available as a key command because this is the workaround for pd's more than imperfect copy and paste capabilities.
Just keep in mind this is a nightly build, not even a test release,
so you will see things that are half-complete. My intention is to
fix Pd to allow direct copy and pasting in object boxes so we can
ditch the "Text Editor" all together.
.hc
You can't steal a gift. Bird gave the world his music, and if you can
hear it, you can have it. - Dizzy Gillespie
On 04/12/2007, at 6:18 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote: My intention is to
fix Pd to allow direct copy and pasting in object boxes so we can ditch the "Text Editor" all together.
hear hear!
this is one of the elements that keeps frustrating people I introduce to PD. splat-V in an object box would be cool.
tm
On Mac OS X, Cmd-T is the font editor in every other app, I figure Pd
can differentiate itself in better, more substantial ways ;).
.hc
On Dec 4, 2007, at 5:13 AM, Max Neupert wrote:
also cmd-t or apple-t is now suddenly the font bomb instead of the text editor why is that?
Am 04.12.2007 um 11:01 schrieb tim:
Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,
Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at
the moment
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three
meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds,
and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin
Luther King, Jr.
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings, etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.
cheers Miller
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 11:01:45AM +0100, tim wrote:
Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,
Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at the moment
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings, etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.
I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings, etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.
I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
Yeah, if Emacs did that, they'd get a damn lot more users, without even losing the spirit of Emacs. How terrible would that be?
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada
On Dec 4, 2007, at 2:58 PM, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act
similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings,
etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term
maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
Yeah, if Emacs did that, they'd get a damn lot more users, without
even losing the spirit of Emacs. How terrible would that be?
There is a program called Aquamacs that does exactly that for Mac OS
X. It has actually taken off quite fast, and it's my main code editor.
.hc
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
Hallo, Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
Yeah, if Emacs did that, they'd get a damn lot more users, without even losing the spirit of Emacs. How terrible would that be?
Emacs and Vim already have configurable keybindings, which even allow monstrosities like Emacs keybindings in Vi and the other way around. But if Emacs or Vim would suddenly disable their traditional keybindings completely, I'm sure they would loose more users than it would gain.
But that's just a guess as it won't happen. And for Pd it's not that much of a problem anyway as (so far) Pd only has a handful of important keybindings, and these already follow Windows-ish patterns (C-s, C-x, C-c, C-v, ...)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 18:19 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings, etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.
I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
good point
probably this doesn't apply to everyone, but i find myself often in situations, where i explain pd to people and everyone is running it on a different operating system. it even happens, that i am working on the same project on different computers with different operating systems simultaneously. also i believe, that learning specific shortcuts is one of the rather small culprits when learning pd.
my vote goes clearly for same behaviour of pd over all platforms.
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 12:18:51AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 18:19 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings, etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.
I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
my vote goes clearly for same behaviour of pd over all platforms.
Same here, but with a configuration option for 'use platform keybindings' for people who want that.
Best,
Chris.
On 5 Dec 2007, at 12:28 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Wed, Dec 05, 2007 at 12:18:51AM +0100, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Tue, 2007-12-04 at 18:19 +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act
similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings,
etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term
maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.I'm for sensible Pd-specific default shortcuts plus - in the longer term - user-configurable shortcuts. Imagine if Emacs or Vi would follow MS-Windows-guidelines ...
my vote goes clearly for same behaviour of pd over all platforms.
Same here, but with a configuration option for 'use platform
keybindings' for people who want that.
in OSX most of the OS 'standard' bindings use apple-, so one way to
look at it for that platform is keep the cntrl- bindings exactly as
they are cross platform, and then make the apple- bindings more OSX-
like. At present I understand that the apple- binding are actually
exactly the same as the cntrl- ones, probably due to the way it has
been implemented.
simon
The key binding code right now is very messy, with two parallel
implementations (one for the Pd window and one for canvases). I am
willing to clean it up and make it straightforward, also making it
easy and straightforward to support native key commands on each
platform. I've seen much cleaner key bindings on a number of Tcl/Tk
apps, there is no reason that Pd can be the same way. And cleaner
code definitely helps with long-term maintainability. No matter how
much we may all wish it, Miller won't be here forever ;), so allowing
others to read and understand the code is important. The key
question for me is whether this work would make it into core, since I
am not interested in maintaining a fork, nor writing code, then
chucking it.
This is the kind of stuff I hear lots of complaints about when
teaching Pd. Things like key commands, menus, and prompts should be
consistent and regular. The user should not need to think about
them, and the user should not be surprised by them. This leads to
annoyance and frustration, which is hardly conducive to producing
good work (unless your art is about annoyance with software interface
inconsistencies ;).
This leads me to the question of the "Text Editor". Is there any
reason to have it besides as a workaround for the lack of copy-n-
paste in boxes?
.hc
On Dec 4, 2007, at 11:27 AM, Miller Puckette wrote:
I think it's a real question whether it's better to have Pd act
similarly across all platforms or whether it's best to adapt key bindings,
etc., to specific ones. Certainly the first solution makes long-term
maintainabilty (a high priority for me) easier.cheers Miller
On Tue, Dec 04, 2007 at 11:01:45AM +0100, tim wrote:
Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you
manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at
the moment
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Computer science is no more related to the computer than astronomy is
related to the telescope. -Edsger Dykstra
On Tue, 4 Dec 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
This leads me to the question of the "Text Editor". Is there any reason to have it besides as a workaround for the lack of copy-n- paste in boxes?
What DesireData does is put the "Text Editor" directly in the patch, no extra window, and make it appear automatically whenever editing the content of an objectbox, messagebox, floatbox, symbolbox, comment, or [nbx]. It disappears automatically (and applies changes) when pressing Return. Pressing Escape cancels changes. Clicking outside of the box does either depending on the kind of box, just like in Vanilla. There's no way you can edit the content of any of those six kinds of boxes with anything else than "Text Editor".
Doing this for objectboxes was Chun's first contribution to DesireData, and the five other kinds eventually followed.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada
It's Cmd-click on Mac OS X.
.hc
On Dec 4, 2007, at 5:01 AM, tim wrote:
Hi, Pd version 0.40.3-extended-20071116, ubuntu 2.6.17-10: Control-clicking gui objects in Edit mode no longer lets you
manipulate them, but instead it just opens the context menu. (like it would on a Mac ?). Personally I prefer the old control-click-in-edit-mode functionality. thanks,Tim
PS: http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/ seems to be down at the moment
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
"It is convenient to imagine a power beyond us because that means we
don't have to examine our own lives.", from "The Idols of
Environmentalism", by Curtis White
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Chris McCormick -
Frank Barknecht -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Max Neupert -
Miller Puckette -
Roman Haefeli -
simon wise -
tim -
Tim Boykett