One thing I haven't been able to find in Max is PD-style data structures and scalars. Do they exist? With drawing instructions? This is the main reason I have been creating my sequencer with PD instead of my school's computers with Max (also because I can install PD on my flash drive). I saw "data structures" in a Max tutorial, but it had nothing to do with the scalars of PD, and I couldn't find any tutorials that did. None of the people I know who use Max have heard of such a thing. Is it there with a different name? -Chuckk
Message: 1
Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:56:19 -0400 From: Matthew Williams mwilliams994@nc.rr.com Subject: [PD] max msp vs pd To: pd list pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: 9e6d76d4475046ac709138ced5128266@nc.rr.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well. I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.
wondering, matt
You are correct, the graphical data structures of Pd have no equivalent
in Max.
.hc
On Nov 12, 2005, at 8:34 PM, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
One thing I haven't been able to find in Max is PD-style data
structures and scalars. Do they exist? With drawing instructions?
This is the main reason I have been creating my sequencer with PD
instead of my school's computers with Max (also because I can install
PD on my flash drive). I saw "data structures" in a Max tutorial, but it had nothing to do
with the scalars of PD, and I couldn't find any tutorials that did.
None of the people I know who use Max have heard of such a thing. Is
it there with a different name? -ChuckkMessage: 1 Date: Sat, 29 Oct 2005 09:56:19 -0400 From: Matthew Williams < mwilliams994@nc.rr.com> Subject: [PD] max msp vs pd To: pd list pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: <9e6d76d4475046ac709138ced5128266@nc.rr.com > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when
you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well. I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is
great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.wondering, matt
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Hi
Well, recently they tried to implement data structures in Max - FTM data structures. These don't do the graphical scalars though, and as is always the case with Max they are an addon rather than an integral part of the program (like MSP was).
Miller's approach is a _lot_ more powerful!
Ed
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Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
One thing I haven't been able to find in Max is PD-style data structures and scalars. Do they exist? With drawing instructions? This is the
a) as i understood miller, pd's main motivation for designing pd differently from max were the data-structures. so it is likely that there are no data-structures in max.
b) i guess the max-list would be the more appropriate place to ask for features of max. most people here use pd instead of max. (otoh, data-structures are a splendid way to demonstrate how much superior pd is...)
mfg.ads.r IOhannes
(otoh, data-structures are a splendid way to demonstrate how much superior pd is...)
well, i wouldn't say superior, but different. i think there are dozens of other feature that demonstrate how superior max is. (soundfiler?)
cheers... tim
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, IOhannes m zmölnig wrote:
b) i guess the max-list would be the more appropriate place to ask for features of max. most people here use pd instead of max. (otoh, data-structures are a splendid way to demonstrate how much superior pd is...)
hehe
Well, I'll list a few things that together may drive development of Pd seriously:
Admit Pd's weaknesses
Believe that they are fixable
Believe that we can make a difference
Make a difference
Which reminds me I should be "making a difference" more often.
But let me repeat that Pd's datastructures are still not the way of the future.
Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
obviously jMax is better........
-Definitely...
AvS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
` |Schreck Ensemble . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +
` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # |
| http://www.schreck.nl/ |
| http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ |
` *===========================================================++
` |Compositions http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/compo.html |
` |Samples http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/samp.html |
` |Patches http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/pat.html |
` |Videos http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/video.html |
` |Scores http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/scores.html |
*===========================================================++
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
obviously jMax is better........
-Definitely...
Are you serious ?
Sorry for this naive question, but I have heard completly different
things about jMax :
- "it's like Max but with bugs added"
- "it's a prettier young sister of Pure Data"
And I am trying to understand which program I have to learn (in my
case I want to interact with video)…
Not very easy for the moment…
Paul Sellis wrote:
obviously jMax is better........
-Definitely...
Are you serious ?
i have left the path of seriousness (in this thread) at the point where i mentioned the word "superior". most others have left there too (i think).
apart from that i still think that jMax is most likely really the "best" of the 3 sisters max(msp), pd and jMax. unfortunately i could never make it work and in the meantime it has died a slow and painful whatever.
mfg.asd.r IOhannes
Careful IOhannes! You might offend some of the more canonical members of this mailing list!!
but yeah I'd definitely "bang" the younger, prettier sister.... ;D
./d5
On Nov 14, 2005, at 4:49 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:
Paul Sellis wrote:
obviously jMax is better........
-Definitely...
Are you serious ?
i have left the path of seriousness (in this thread) at the point where i mentioned the word "superior". most others have left there too (i think).
apart from that i still think that jMax is most likely really the "best" of the 3 sisters max(msp), pd and jMax. unfortunately i could never make it work and in the meantime it has died a slow and painful whatever.
mfg.asd.r IOhannes
day 5 wrote:
Careful IOhannes! You might offend some of the more canonical members of this mailing list!!
but yeah I'd definitely "bang" the younger, prettier sister.... ;D
but otoh, you might offend 99% of the female subscribers to this list, including me.
i personally think it is totally off to go into the details of what might be "bang"ed and what not.
mf.asdr. IOhannes
I am one of those female ... and while I can read between the lines and codes ... some expressions or "jokes" should be left silent !
MH
Le 14-Nov-05, à 9:02 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig a écrit :
day 5 wrote:
Careful IOhannes! You might offend some of the more canonical members of this mailing list!! but yeah I'd definitely "bang" the younger, prettier sister.... ;D
but otoh, you might offend 99% of the female subscribers to this list, including me.
i personally think it is totally off to go into the details of what might be "bang"ed and what not.
mf.asdr. IOhannes
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I have never used JMax but it seems from what I read that it is more for sound and music than video interactivity.
http://freesoftware.ircam.fr/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=14
I have used both MaxMsp/Jitter and Puredata. Both of them offer different advantages but I must say that as an artist coming from a non-programming background I find the documentation very helpfull in Max. When I went back to Max after using PD, it felt very confortable.
I guess it all depends where you come from and what is your challenge !
MH
Le 14-Nov-05, à 9:02 AM, IOhannes m zmoelnig a écrit :
day 5 wrote:
Careful IOhannes! You might offend some of the more canonical members of this mailing list!! but yeah I'd definitely "bang" the younger, prettier sister.... ;D
but otoh, you might offend 99% of the female subscribers to this list, including me.
i personally think it is totally off to go into the details of what might be "bang"ed and what not.
mf.asdr. IOhannes
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Mon, 14 Nov 2005, MH Parant wrote:
I have never used JMax but it seems from what I read that it is more for sound and music than video interactivity.
PureData also was only for sound and music in the beginning. It's not specially made for video, but the plugin interface is flexible enough, and so was jMax's.
So, in 2001, Alexandre Castonguay brought a few of us together to make us create the first video plugin for jMax. Things went differently and a few months later we had two video plugins for jMax: a high-speed one called VideoDSP (or VDSP) and a flexible one called video4jmax, which by the end of the year had its name changed to GridFlow.
Oh, and as far as I can tell, IRCAM has destroyed the mailing-list archives of the old jMax, which conveniently removes most traces of the existence of former 3rd-party developers.
Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
hi all,
Am Montag 14 November 2005 21:35 schrieb Mathieu Bouchard:
[...snip...]
So, in 2001, Alexandre Castonguay brought a few of us together to make us create the first video plugin for jMax. Things went differently and a few months later we had two video plugins for jMax: a high-speed one called VideoDSP (or VDSP) and a flexible one called video4jmax, which by the end of the year had its name changed to GridFlow.
talking of vdsp, there is a kind of backup of all that in archive.org : http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://mamalala.de
even most (all?) of the relevant files are saved there.
so, if anyone is curious, thats where to look. i dont have that stuff locally anymore.....
Oh, and as far as I can tell, IRCAM has destroyed the mailing-list archives of the old jMax, which conveniently removes most traces of the existence of former 3rd-party developers.
....whereas i still have a local "copy" of the mailing list here, meaning all messages on that list since i was subscribed there until it was closed. if there is interrest, i do a .tgz of that and put it online ...
greetings,
chris
....whereas i still have a local "copy" of the mailing list here, meaning all messages on that list since i was subscribed there until it was closed. if there is interrest, i do a .tgz of that and put it online ...
-It would be nice to have a copy of it. I asked IRCAM about why it vanished, but only silence prevails...
avS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
` |Schreck Ensemble . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +
` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # |
| http://www.schreck.nl/ |
| http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ |
` *===========================================================++
` |Compositions http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/compo.html |
` |Samples http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/samp.html |
` |Patches http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/pat.html |
` |Videos http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/video.html |
` |Scores http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/scores.html |
*===========================================================++
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
hi,
Am Montag 14 November 2005 22:18 schrieb Arie van Schutterhoef:
....whereas i still have a local "copy" of the mailing list here, meaning all messages on that list since i was subscribed there until it was closed. if there is interrest, i do a .tgz of that and put it online ...
-It would be nice to have a copy of it. I asked IRCAM about why it vanished, but only silence prevails...
uploaded it right now. you can find it under http://mamalala.de/jmaxlist.tgz (2904325 bytes)
its the whole jmax list folder containing the main jmax list and some smaller list i had on mamalala.de originally this is a kmail directory (and its contents), which are one plain text file for all messages and some index files per list. the big file should have all files chronoligically ....
avS
greetings,
chris
uploaded it right now. you can find it under http://mamalala.de/jmaxlist.tgz (2904325 bytes) its the whole jmax list folder containing the main jmax list and some smaller list i had on mamalala.de originally this is a kmail directory (and its contents), which are one plain text file for all messages and some index files per list. the big file should have all files chronoligically ....
-Thanks chris for making the effort!
AvS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
` |Schreck Ensemble . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . +
` |# -laboratory for live electro-acoustic music- # |
| http://www.schreck.nl/ |
| http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/ |
` *===========================================================++
` |Compositions http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/compo.html |
` |Samples http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/samp.html |
` |Patches http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/pat.html |
` |Videos http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/video.html |
` |Scores http://www.xs4all.nl/~schreck/html/scores.html |
*===========================================================++
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .....................................................................
On 11/14/05, Christian Klippel ck@mamalala.de wrote:
talking of vdsp, there is a kind of backup of all that in archive.org : http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://mamalala.de
even most (all?) of the relevant files are saved there.
so, if anyone is curious, thats where to look. i dont have that stuff locally anymore.....
Does that include the OSX 'port' I did?
I recently had to dig out that old stuff to remember how to setup shm in order to implement pix_share to pass pixels between pd processes. Works pretty well.
cgc
On Sun, 13 Nov 2005, Paul Sellis wrote:
Sorry for this naive question, but I have heard completly different things about jMax :
- "it's like Max but with bugs added"
- "it's a prettier young sister of Pure Data"
It was both. However jMax is dead and all its users have migrated to PureData. The #dataflow IRC channel (on irc.freenode.net) was started by 3rd party developers of jMax (originally as #jmax) and for a very long time was almost jMax-only, but the balance tilted in late 2003 and now it's almost PureData-only.
jMax is mostly a "running gag" on pd-list, pd-dev, #dataflow, and such. A good way to troll is to pretend to prefer jMax for everyday use.
Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
-
-nacht- -
Arie van Schutterhoef -
chris clepper -
Christian Klippel -
Chuckk Hubbard -
day 5 -
Ed Kelly -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
IOhannes m zmölnig
-
Mathieu Bouchard -
MH Parant -
Paul Sellis -
Tim Blechmann