I've had this problem before, can't recall if I solved it. This Mac happens to be playing flat, about a half-step. I tested a 440 Hz tone from a keyboard (I checked its mastertune and scale), and to get Pd to play that pitch takes about 451.2 (less than a half step, but way off).
I checked the sampling rates, everything is set to 44.1 kHz. And the ratio doesn't correspond to 48000/44100. I know it's not just the keyboard, because I noticed it in a composition first.. How could something like this happen?
-Chuckk
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
Nevermind... I was checking against the keyboard after playing part of a microtonal piece... without resetting pitchbend. I checked against my online mp3 of the piece, and it is the same. Now it's going to drive me crazy that I thought it was flat to start with... :/
-Chuckk
On 4/7/06, Chuckk Hubbard badmuthahubbard@gmail.com wrote:
I've had this problem before, can't recall if I solved it. This Mac happens to be playing flat, about a half-step. I tested a 440 Hz tone from a keyboard (I checked its mastertune and scale), and to get Pd to play that pitch takes about 451.2 (less than a half step, but way off).
I checked the sampling rates, everything is set to 44.1 kHz. And the ratio doesn't correspond to 48000/44100. I know it's not just the keyboard, because I noticed it in a composition first.. How could something like this happen?
-Chuckk
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
I'm having this problem again. I checked all the pitch bends, still PD on OSX puts out a different pitch for 440 than the keyboard puts out for A. This time I checked by ear and did the math and it is exactly the ratio between 48000 and 44100. I normally use 48000 at home on WinXP, but this is a Mac version of Pd, and I've only ever used 44100 on Mac. What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by almost a whole step?
-Chuckk
On 4/7/06, Chuckk Hubbard badmuthahubbard@gmail.com wrote:
I've had this problem before, can't recall if I solved it. This Mac happens to be playing flat, about a half-step. I tested a 440 Hz tone from a keyboard (I checked its mastertune and scale), and to get Pd to play that pitch takes about 451.2 (less than a half step, but way off).
I checked the sampling rates, everything is set to 44.1 kHz. And the ratio doesn't correspond to 48000/44100. I know it's not just the keyboard, because I noticed it in a composition first.. How could something like this happen?
-Chuckk
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
I'm having this problem again. I checked all the pitch bends, still PD on OSX puts out a different pitch for 440 than the keyboard puts out for A. This time I checked by ear and did the math and it is exactly the ratio between 48000 and 44100. I normally use 48000 at home on WinXP, but this is a Mac version of Pd, and I've only ever used 44100 on Mac. What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by almost a whole step?
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it.
dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
I'm having this problem again. I checked all the pitch bends, still PD on OSX puts out a different pitch for 440 than the keyboard puts out for A. This time I checked by ear and did the math and it is exactly the ratio between 48000 and 44100. I normally use 48000 at home on WinXP, but this is a Mac version of Pd, and I've only ever used 44100 on Mac. What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by almost a whole step?
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it.
dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it. dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
I meant that first you should measure the thing and make sure that it's really exactly 1.467 semitone of difference. If it is, then it is the 48000/44100 problem, and if not, then I don't have a clue, but an accurate figure will give hints.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
Easiest would be to see if you have any 48000 hard-wired calculations. You should be using [samplerate~] instead, if you wish to change that feature and still use the patch. Maybe just search yoru patches for that number?
I don't know what externals you are using or if the issue is with them...
~Kyle
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it. dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
I meant that first you should measure the thing and make sure that it's really exactly 1.467 semitone of difference. If it is, then it is the 48000/44100 problem, and if not, then I don't have a clue, but an accurate figure will give hints.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
I thought of that too, since my patches are primarily set up for 48000, but I can open Pd, start a new patch, create [osc~ 440] and [dac~], and it is already off. I haven't looked into [samplerate~], I'll check and see if that makes any difference next time I go in. Thanks. Chuckk
On 4/13/06, Kyle Klipowicz kyleklip@gmail.com wrote:
Easiest would be to see if you have any 48000 hard-wired calculations. You should be using [samplerate~] instead, if you wish to change that feature and still use the patch. Maybe just search yoru patches for that number?
I don't know what externals you are using or if the issue is with them...
~Kyle
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it. dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
I meant that first you should measure the thing and make sure that it's really exactly 1.467 semitone of difference. If it is, then it is the 48000/44100 problem, and if not, then I don't have a clue, but an accurate figure will give hints.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
I thought of that too, since my patches are primarily set up for 48000, but I can open Pd, start a new patch, create [osc~ 440] and [dac~], and it is already off. I haven't looked into [samplerate~], I'll check and see if that makes any difference next time I go in. Thanks. Chuckk
have you ever tried a tuning fork? probably the keyboard is off :-)
you could try running pd at 48kHz and see how it behaves then.
mfgadsr IOhannes
On 4/14/06, IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
I thought of that too, since my patches are primarily set up for 48000, but I can open Pd, start a new patch, create [osc~ 440] and [dac~], and it is already off. I haven't looked into [samplerate~], I'll check and see if that makes any difference next time I go in. Thanks. Chuckk
have you ever tried a tuning fork? probably the keyboard is off :-)
you could try running pd at 48kHz and see how it behaves then.
True, haha, all keyboards are off. But the mp3 I made on my PC also plays sharper than the Macs. If Pd is flat, doesn't that suggest Pd thinks it's playing at 48000, and the hardware is playing at 44100? Or maybe the hardware thinks Pd is playing at 48000... Either way, actually making Pd play at 48000 seems like it would make it flatter. I just got a little clue though... I restarted Pd and made an oscillator, and set it to 440. I'd forgotten to set the audio to the M-box, so it played through the computer speaker. Lo and behold, when I switched to the M-box and heard it through my headphones, it got lower. Guess it's the M-box.
-Chuckk
Well the A from the keyboard pretty closely matches 478.9 from a Pd oscillator, and 478.9/440 is pretty much 48000/44100, so apparently that is the issue. I can't locate where it could be going off, though, everything in Pd and the hardware says 44100.
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it. dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
I meant that first you should measure the thing and make sure that it's really exactly 1.467 semitone of difference. If it is, then it is the 48000/44100 problem, and if not, then I don't have a clue, but an accurate figure will give hints.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
The hardware is a G5, I think, with an M-box. Not sure what speed the processor is.
On 4/13/06, Chuckk Hubbard badmuthahubbard@gmail.com wrote:
Well the A from the keyboard pretty closely matches 478.9 from a Pd oscillator, and 478.9/440 is pretty much 48000/44100, so apparently that is the issue. I can't locate where it could be going off, though, everything in Pd and the hardware says 44100.
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
On 4/13/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
48000/44100 is 1.467 semitones and that isn't "almost a whole step" in any way, if you're as seriously into microtonality as you put it. dwarf 12-tET some more and then try again.
What could be causing Pd to play out of tune by more than a half-step? I hope I didn't offend you by saying the harmonic possibilities of some other tuning systems dwarf those of 12-tET. That's not an opinion.
I meant that first you should measure the thing and make sure that it's really exactly 1.467 semitone of difference. If it is, then it is the 48000/44100 problem, and if not, then I don't have a clue, but an accurate figure will give hints.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra"
On Thu, 13 Apr 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Well the A from the keyboard pretty closely matches 478.9 from a Pd oscillator, and 478.9/440 is pretty much 48000/44100, so apparently that is the issue. I can't locate where it could be going off, though, everything in Pd and the hardware says 44100.
Since that mail, I've been to Ottawa and fixed an installation at the
graduate exhibition. Turns out that there was another program (hdspmixer)
which was modifying the soundcard's settings just after Pd started,
because of the order in which those programs got to initialize themselves
when launched at the exact same time.
Can anything like this be the problem?
If you open Pd's soundcard settings and just click "Ok", do all pitches change back to normal?
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
-
Chuckk Hubbard -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Kyle Klipowicz -
Mathieu Bouchard