De: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org Date: 2006/09/14 jeu. AM 10:29:18 GMT-04:00 À: martin.peach@sympatico.ca martin.peach@sympatico.ca Cc: "David Powers" cyborgk@gmail.com, pd-list@iem.at Objet: Re: [Pd] active and tot not right in pd-extended
Some kind of "config" or ".ini" or whatever file, would make it far easier to change options for one install, without messing up the other.
I agree totally. I see no reason to mess with the registry. Surely
a text (or better: XML) file would be a platform-independent way of
saving settings that doesn't require calling aThe idea is to be platform-specific. The .pdrc is the old platform- independent config file.
Why exactly does the config file have to be platform specific?
How many users know how to edit this proposed config file? Just
about how many know how to edit the registry settings for Pd. The
FAQ can provide some help for getting people up to speed. We need to
build on existing knowledge so that people don't have learn Pd- specific things for trivial operations. For what Pd does with it,
the registry is simple to use. Plus if you learn the registry in the
process of figuring out manual Pd configs, then you can apply that
knowledge to just about every other Windows program.
I don't know _any_ windows program that encourages users to play around with its registry entries. That usually results in odd behaviour. MS wants the program to read and write the registry through the API, the user isn't supposed to even suspect that it might exist. The main reason for it seems to be for licensing and copy-protection secret keys. My registry seems to have thousands of entries. Browsing it is very tedious. I propose that an xml file could be read/writeable by pd in the same way the setting dialogs work currently. Since it's a plain text file and out in the open, anyone could read it, and "experts" could edit it directly. As long as the 'xml' is kept simple (no nesting, no dtd lookups) a parser should be doable in tcl, maybe a tcl xml parser already exists(?)
Martin
On Sep 14, 2006, at 10:50 AM, martin.peach@sympatico.ca wrote:
De: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org Date: 2006/09/14 jeu. AM 10:29:18 GMT-04:00 À: martin.peach@sympatico.ca martin.peach@sympatico.ca Cc: "David Powers" cyborgk@gmail.com, pd-list@iem.at Objet: Re: [Pd] active and tot not right in pd-extended
Some kind of "config" or ".ini" or whatever file, would make it far easier to change options for one install, without messing up the other.
I agree totally. I see no reason to mess with the registry. Surely a text (or better: XML) file would be a platform-independent way of saving settings that doesn't require calling a
The idea is to be platform-specific. The .pdrc is the old platform- independent config file.
Why exactly does the config file have to be platform specific?
It doesn't have to be, it just better that way. Then users who know
their platform have to learn less new things to work with Pd.
How many users know how to edit this proposed config file? Just about how many know how to edit the registry settings for Pd. The FAQ can provide some help for getting people up to speed. We need to build on existing knowledge so that people don't have learn Pd- specific things for trivial operations. For what Pd does with it, the registry is simple to use. Plus if you learn the registry in the process of figuring out manual Pd configs, then you can apply that knowledge to just about every other Windows program.
I don't know _any_ windows program that encourages users to play
around with its registry entries. That usually results in odd
behaviour. MS wants the program to read and write the registry
through the API, the user isn't supposed to even suspect that it
might exist. The main reason for it seems to be for licensing and
copy-protection secret keys. My registry seems to have thousands of
entries. Browsing it is very tedious. I propose that an xml file could be read/writeable by pd in the
same way the setting dialogs work currently. Since it's a plain
text file and out in the open, anyone could read it, and "experts"
could edit it directly. As long as the 'xml' is kept simple (no nesting, no dtd lookups) a
parser should be doable in tcl, maybe a tcl xml parser already
exists(?)
We are on the same page, we just disagree about how to solve the
problem. If the preference panels were fixed, then Windows users
wouldn't have to touch the registry, and people on other platforms
would benefit too. Just changing the underlying format will mean
that users have to learn a different, arcane config file. That
doesn't seem like a benefit to me.
.hc
As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, martin.peach@sympatico.ca wrote:
As long as the 'xml' is kept simple (no nesting, no dtd lookups) a parser should be doable in tcl, maybe a tcl xml parser already exists(?)
DesireData has two config files, the client-only options being in a file called ".ddrc", which is in Tcl list format, pretty-printed. It works using key-value pairs. It would support any kind of nesting, if any option needed to be stored as a nested-list. This is rather close to the LISP style. It looks like this:
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/pure-data/pd/src/defaults.dd...
and this is arguably easier to read and write than XML.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
I completey agree that it is better to have local config files. I think that everything that belongs to a certain program should stay in that directory. The windows concept of spreading your seed in as many places as possible doesn't work. I have been using windows computers for more than a decade now and this has always been a problem. I love programs (usually freeware) that doesn't need to be installed such as Virtual dub or Wavesurfer. Wavesurfer is another example of a Tcl application that is available for all three platforms (including source files). It is a audio software for in particular speech analysis. Now I am not to familiar with how it works but I think it keeps the setting files in the user directory. There is no need to alter the registry and the user doesn't notice the difference. I you want you can save several config files each specifying a certain environment. The only thing missing is that you can't find in on the start menu and there is no file types associated with it. I can easily live with that. Also, if you want to modify the default configuration of a program it should be local to the user and not applied to all users on the same computer. If it is not a professional program I think it is much better sticking to the simplest solution possible since a "proper" integration into the windows environment seems to be a full-time work in itself. In the case of pd it is even more problematic since there exist several parallel versions. Life would have been easier for me at least if it was possible to have different pd-extended installed at the same time. And as has been pointed out, the registry should not be touched other than in emergency. A text file works equally good. What do you think the system guys at the university answer when I say that my computer is not working and I have been messing with the registry? A windows user /Anders
Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Thu, 14 Sep 2006, martin.peach@sympatico.ca wrote:
As long as the 'xml' is kept simple (no nesting, no dtd lookups) a parser should be doable in tcl, maybe a tcl xml parser already exists(?)
DesireData has two config files, the client-only options being in a file called ".ddrc", which is in Tcl list format, pretty-printed. It works using key-value pairs. It would support any kind of nesting, if any option needed to be stored as a nested-list. This is rather close to the LISP style. It looks like this:
http://pure-data.cvs.sourceforge.net/*checkout*/pure-data/pd/src/defaults.dd...
and this is arguably easier to read and write than XML.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
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