On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Marius Schebella wrote:
Mathieu Bouchard schrieb:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
because of the plastic case?
I'd only go to ITP if I can choose the colour of my degree...
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 11:08 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
well, comparing the tuition fees of NYU with universities from germany/austria is more like comparing a recent pc laptop to a kyma system with 12 expansion boards, 4 klein&hummel studio monitors, a mac computer, and the studio rent for quite some time ...
cheers ... tim
-- tim@klingt.org ICQ: 96771783 http://www.mokabar.tk
The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason. John Cage.
which one's which?
~Kyle
On 10/6/06, Tim Blechmann tim@klingt.org wrote:
On Fri, 2006-10-06 at 11:08 -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
well, comparing the tuition fees of NYU with universities from germany/austria is more like comparing a recent pc laptop to a kyma system with 12 expansion boards, 4 klein&hummel studio monitors, a mac computer, and the studio rent for quite some time ...
cheers ... tim
-- tim@klingt.org ICQ: 96771783 http://www.mokabar.tk
The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason. John Cage.
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On 10/6/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Marius Schebella wrote:
Mathieu Bouchard schrieb:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
"Buy" is an important word there. Can you buy an education like you buy a technological device? It seems like history is written by those who hunted down their education with their own two hands, because those are the people who don't stop learning.
because of the plastic case?
I'd only go to ITP if I can choose the colour of my degree...
I'm guessing that's an extra $5,000. I'm right now interested in IEM. Everything I've heard and read about it makes me want to be there. I haven't decided where else to apply.
I gave a presentation for my acoustics class today using Pure Data and my microtonal sequencer. I also whipped up a Pd oscilloscope. It went really well. The other students were mystified by my tuning numbers, but they dug the music. The professor was impressed too. Lots of people asked about the program. Thanks, Pd!
-Chuckk
Chuckk Hubbard schrieb:
On 10/6/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Marius Schebella wrote:
Mathieu Bouchard schrieb:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
"Buy" is an important word there. Can you buy an education like you buy a technological device?
I think yes. at least you pay for the time you occupy your teachers and heated classrooms. The thing is, that in countrys like Austria people, like teachers, but also housekeepers, or the infrastructure at universities are paid by the government. so the costs for the education are not comparable, I think they are not measurable at all. they are just paid by the commuon taxpayer.
I'm right now interested in IEM. Everything I've heard and read about it makes me want to be there. I haven't decided where else to apply.
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction art (eg. integrating microcontollers into your projects). for classical computer music paris might be the right choice...(?). apart from that (money usually is factor number one), think of applying for scholarships at least one year before.
marius.
On 10/6/06, Marius Schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard schrieb:
On 10/6/06, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Marius Schebella wrote:
Mathieu Bouchard schrieb:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2006, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
NYU's ITP program is about US$31,000 per year.
Why would anyone want to go there then?
why would anyone buy a Mac Computer?
"Buy" is an important word there. Can you buy an education like you buy a technological device?
I think yes. at least you pay for the time you occupy your teachers and heated classrooms.
True, and the time spent among others with similar interests is a big bonus, but it's not like you write a check and walk away with the merchandise. If you're not engaging yourself in it, it's wasted. I think the internet is becoming the most powerful tool the self-motivated student can have. Professors tend to mistrust it because they don't know how to use it. Yet a library can also be a detriment if you don't figure out how to use it, and I've had about 10 orientations in the music library in 3 years here, compared to zero sessions on internet research. They don't get paid for me using the internet. Knowledge is getting cheaper. There's a greater supply. Monopolies fade away, and go down trying to juice every last penny they can.
Another frustrating experience I've had over and over is that I become interested in some subject and proceed to learn all I can about it online and at the library. I join mailing lists, ask questions, read books like Miller's 'Theory and Techniques', teach myself. Then, at registration time, my advisor says, "Well, if you're interested in computer music, you should take 'Intro to MIDI' class." Can you see where this is going? It stems from the assumption that you get knowledge by buying it. Coincidentally, the music tech classes are mostly classes in how to pay hundreds of dollars for software. I don't think this is just my school either.
The thing is, that in countrys like Austria people, like teachers, but also housekeepers, or the infrastructure at universities are paid by the government. so the costs for the education are not comparable, I think they are not measurable at all. they are just paid by the commuon taxpayer.
I have mixed feelings about that, but it seems like a good idea. Of all the things a society can do to invest in its prosperity, helping people learn things seems like a good choice.
I'm right now interested in IEM. Everything I've heard and read about it makes me want to be there. I haven't decided where else to apply.
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction art (eg. integrating microcontollers into your projects). for classical computer music paris might be the right choice...(?). apart from that (money usually is factor number one), think of applying for scholarships at least one year before.
I see, thanks. I might wait a year, but I'll do what I can.
-Chuckk
On Fri, 6 Oct 2006, Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Professors tend to mistrust it because they don't know how to use it.
And because it challenges their position as gatekeepers of knowledge.
Yet a library can also be a detriment if you don't figure out how to use it, and I've had about 10 orientations in the music library in 3 years here, compared to zero sessions on internet research.
Because it challenges their position as gatekeepers of knowledge.
"Well, if you're interested in computer music, you should take 'Intro to MIDI' class." Can you see where this is going?
You have to take the class offered by the university, because else it'd challenge their position as gatekeepers of knowledge.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju | Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction art
says who? ive been paying attentions to the projects coming out of there since i toured the place in 1997 considering going (that is, if i completed 4 years of undergrad work first, which i did 0.25). it looked like a bunch of wankery. the only thing that i even remember at this point was the multipoint touchscreen project. i'd suggest digging thru the PDFs of conferences like NIME, DAFx, AES, and see what schools they are coming from. several of them have already been mentinoed, but nowhere near all of them...
From what I understand, the strongest aspect of ITP is their Physical
Computing curriculum, which seems to be pretty awesome. What are some of these other schools that haven't been mentioned, Carmen?
~Kyle
On 10/6/06, carmen _@whats-your.name wrote:
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction art
says who? ive been paying attentions to the projects coming out of there since i toured the place in 1997 considering going (that is, if i completed 4 years of undergrad work first, which i did 0.25). it looked like a bunch of wankery. the only thing that i even remember at this point was the multipoint touchscreen project. i'd suggest digging thru the PDFs of conferences like NIME, DAFx, AES, and see what schools they are coming from. several of them have already been mentinoed, but nowhere near all of them...
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carmen schrieb:
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction art
says who? ive been paying attentions to the projects coming out of there since i toured the place in 1997 considering going (that is, if i completed 4 years of undergrad work first, which i did 0.25). it looked like a bunch of wankery. the only thing that i even remember at this point was the multipoint touchscreen project. i'd suggest digging thru the PDFs of conferences like NIME, DAFx, AES, and see what schools they are coming from. several of them have already been mentinoed, but nowhere near all of them...
me, sorry, I should have pointed out, that this is just a personal opinion from what schools I know. You are right, digging thru the PDFs of conferences like NIME, DAFx, AES is a good idea, I'll try this and be back with more profund information... marius.
On Oct 6, 2006, at 4:01 PM, carmen wrote:
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach,
economy. the ITP has the best reputation in interaction artsays who? ive been paying attentions to the projects coming out of
there since i toured the place in 1997 considering going (that is,
if i completed 4 years of undergrad work first, which i did 0.25).
it looked like a bunch of wankery. the only thing that i even
remember at this point was the multipoint touchscreen project. i'd
suggest digging thru the PDFs of conferences like NIME, DAFx, AES,
and see what schools they are coming from. several of them have
already been mentinoed, but nowhere near all of them...
There is definitely a lot of wankery at ITP. But I don't think there
isn't an interactive art program in the world that isn't dominated by
wankery. Its more a question of the field of interactive arts/media
arts being full of a lot of wankery. Therefore, it follows that
university programs in that field would also be full of wankery.
Grad school is nice because it sets lot of deadlines so you get lots
of work done. Plus you get to meet people to work with. Then of
course you make lots of connections so that you can get work
afterwards thru that network. All of this can definitely be done
outside of grad school, grad school just makes it easier. But I
think I have more respect for the people who do it outside of grad
school, or something like that...
.hc
I have the audacity to believe that peoples everywhere can have three
meals a day for their bodies, education and culture for their minds,
and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin
Luther King, Jr.
"Buy" is an important word there. Can you buy an education like you buy a technological device?
I think yes. at least you pay for the time you occupy your teachers and heated classrooms. The thing is, that in countrys like Austria people, like teachers, but also housekeepers, or the infrastructure at universities are paid by the government. so the costs for the education are not comparable, I think they are not measurable at all. they are just paid by the commuon taxpayer.
right, however the austrian/german way introduces less social filters (although it still does, if you have a look at the statistics)
I'm right now interested in IEM. Everything I've heard and read about it makes me want to be there. I haven't decided where else to apply.
It really depends what you want do do later? artist, teach, economy.
i've never studied in the us, but from what i heard is, they are much more individual, than in austria/germany, where you also have to learn to work on your own ... this might also be a point to take into account (i must say, i prefer the european way) ... and after studying at 5 different universities and around 10 different departments, i have to add, that the departments with the best equipment (read: most money to buy equipment) or the good reputation are not necessarily the best departments ...
cheers ... tim
-- tim@klingt.org ICQ: 96771783 http://www.mokabar.tk
The aim of education is the knowledge, not of facts, but of values William S. Burroughs
right, however the austrian/german way introduces less social filters (although it still does, if you have a look at the statistics)
It seems to be a common trend among some european countries to have stricter admission requirements and more competition as a tradeoff for the government supported schools (except for countries like Denmark and Poland, that I know of; everyone is a student there, it seems). For instance, in Finland, it's known that only 10% of people go to the university (pretty selective), and those who go recieve around 400 Euros/month to go there.
I also would like to mention a music psychology program at the University of Jyvaskyla (place the dots over the a's)...it's a lovely little city, if you can stand the darkness and cold in the winter.
Chuck
On 07/10/2006, at 5.38, Charles Henry wrote:
right, however the austrian/german way introduces less social filters (although it still does, if you have a look at the statistics)
It seems to be a common trend among some european countries to have stricter admission requirements and more competition as a tradeoff for the government supported schools (except for countries like Denmark and Poland, that I know of; everyone is a student there, it seems).
I don't know what hides insider 'stricter admisson'. However, it's
true that it's free to study in denmark if you get in, and that there
is a wee bit of money each month (for a number of months). The
admission differ. Higher art/design/etc schools normally have have a
test, one have to pass. At the conventional universities one get in
by having a "high-school" grade above a specific and study-relative
threshold (which in reality means: each study have room for a number
of new students each year, which will be those with the highest grade).
On topic, i can in no way suggest denmark as for studying computer
music.
-
carmen -
Charles Henry -
Chuckk Hubbard -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Kyle Klipowicz -
Marius Schebella -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Steffen -
Tim Blechmann