I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor position would be the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for different windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost identical windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing this behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.
Ingo
well, the current behavior is helpful when pasting into a different window if it has similar dimensions, but if we are copying a piece of a patch which was way down in a window into a new window, then the pasted code ends up in the same place too and one has to go look for it. This also happens because the window doesn't focus in the pasted section, but keeps the 0,0 coordinates. I think in general, (or when pasting to the same window) it would be nice to paste into the last clicked coordinate.
In any case I am so used to it by now that I can survive in these conditions.
J
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Miller Puckette mpuckett@imusic1.ucsd.eduwrote:
I think if pasting to the same window this would be reasonable - but
I've
always had in mind, instead, to paste the objects to a new place
determined
by current cursor position, which would be far better. Just haven't
been
able to think it through and do it.
M On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 06:53:22PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hey all,
I was thinking that it would be nice if copy-paste had the same response and duplicate, i.e. shifting the position over by 10 pixels in x and y, then pasting. I can't see a good reason why paste doesn't do that. Anyone know of any? Newbies get very frustrated by the current behavior. Regular users get used to the Duplicate command, but I don't know of any other programs where you can't just copy-paste and you need a special function.
.hc
Ingo Scherzinger wrote:
I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor position would be the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for different windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost identical windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing this behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.
i think that even when copying to different windows, sticking to the mouse-cursor has its merits. e.g. quite often students are having problems, because they have copied a patch twice (or more) to the same ("other") window. since there is no visual clue that there are multiple (identical) objects overlapping, patches start to behave weird...
this problem could of course also be solved by adding visual clues when objects are overlapping...
nevertheless: another idea (which i think has been mentioned here in previous threads) is to: keep the behaviour as it is now, but as soon as the mouse is moved, stick the copied objects to the mouse pointer (i'd suggest to align the upper-left corner of the bounding box of the copied content, rather than sticking with coordinates relative to the original origin). anything else (mouseclick, space-key,...) will place the obects where they currently are.
i haven't thought about hidden implications though.
fgmasdr IOhannes
On Sat, 31 Jan 2009, Ingo Scherzinger wrote:
I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor position would be the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for different windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost identical windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing this behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.
I believe that in general you shouldn't have to make copy-paste like that, and a language is called "powerful" when it allows you to avoid the copy-paste and instead replace it with a more concise description of what's going on. In Pd this is made using something called "abstractions".
But Pd not being so powerful in that sense of the word, there are also many situations where you have to copy-paste, and many situations where it's simpler to copy-paste than to try to contort the thing into something abstractable the pd way. There are also situations that are not really worth abstracting in any language.
If you already know all of this, I'm sorry to say it, and in any case, I can only hope that some people will benefit from this email...
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec
Yeah, I thought some people might do that. As it is now, newbies get
really annoyed and frustrated, as well as some experienced users. I
figure it is easy enough for someone in your position to hit shift-
left-arrow, then shift-up-arrow and it'll be back to the original
position. That's much easier than recovering from pasting a copy
right on top of itself.
Maybe someone can come up with an even better idea that solves both
issues.
.hc
On Jan 31, 2009, at 5:34 AM, Ingo Scherzinger wrote:
I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor position would be
the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for different
windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost identical
windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing this
behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.Ingo
well, the current behavior is helpful when pasting into a different
window if it has similar dimensions, but if we are copying a piece of a
patch which was way down in a window into a new window, then the pasted code
ends up in the same place too and one has to go look for it. This also happens because the window doesn't focus in the pasted section, but keeps the 0,0 coordinates. I think in general, (or when pasting to the same window) it would
be nice to paste into the last clicked coordinate.In any case I am so used to it by now that I can survive in these conditions.
J
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Miller Puckette mpuckett@imusic1.ucsd.eduwrote:
I think if pasting to the same window this would be reasonable - but
I've
always had in mind, instead, to paste the objects to a new place
determined
by current cursor position, which would be far better. Just haven't
been
able to think it through and do it.
M On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 06:53:22PM -0500, Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:Hey all,
I was thinking that it would be nice if copy-paste had the same response and duplicate, i.e. shifting the position over by 10
pixels in x and y, then pasting. I can't see a good reason why paste
doesn't do that. Anyone know of any? Newbies get very frustrated by the current behavior. Regular users get used to the Duplicate command, but I don't know of any other programs where you can't just copy- paste and you need a special function..hc
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Maybe there could be a menu item that toggles between a) making pasted objects dangle from the mouse (similar to what happens when hitting ctrl-1), or b) shifting 10x10 for the same window and leaving everything as is for different windows.
(Hopefully I didn't double post this...)
-Jonathan
--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 46, Issue 108 To: "Ingo Scherzinger" ingo@miamiwave.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:16 PM Yeah, I thought some people might do that. As it is now, newbies get
really annoyed and frustrated, as well as some experienced users. I
figure it is easy enough for someone in your position to hit shift- left-arrow, then shift-up-arrow and it'll be back to the original
position. That's much easier than recovering from pasting a copy
right on top of itself.Maybe someone can come up with an even better idea that solves both
issues..hc
On Jan 31, 2009, at 5:34 AM, Ingo Scherzinger wrote:
I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor
position would be
the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for
different
windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost
identical
windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing
this
behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.
Ingo
well, the current behavior is helpful when pasting
into a different
window if it has similar dimensions, but if we are
copying a piece of a
patch which was way down in a window into a new window, then
the pasted code
ends up in the same place too and one has to go look for it.
This also happens
because the window doesn't focus in the pasted
section, but keeps the 0,0
coordinates. I think in general, (or when pasting to the same
window) it would
be nice to paste into the last clicked coordinate.
In any case I am so used to it by now that I can
survive in these
conditions.
J
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Miller Puckette mpuckett@imusic1.ucsd.eduwrote:
I think if pasting to the same window this
would be reasonable - but
I've
always had in mind, instead, to paste the
objects to a new place
determined
by current cursor position, which would be far
better. Just haven't
been
able to think it through and do it.
M On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 06:53:22PM -0500,
Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:
Hey all,
I was thinking that it would be nice if
copy-paste had the same
response and duplicate, i.e. shifting the
position over by 10
pixels in x and y, then pasting. I can't see
a good reason why paste
doesn't do that. Anyone know of any? Newbies get
very frustrated by the
current behavior. Regular users get used
to the Duplicate command,
but I don't know of any other programs
where you can't just copy-
paste and you need a special function.
.hc
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http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Yeah, I was thinking something similar. Perhaps paste should always
just leave the whole thing dangling on the mouse pointer until you
click to put it down. Or maybe paste just does the 10x10 shift and
Duplicate does the dangling behavior.
.hc
On Jan 31, 2009, at 8:30 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
Maybe there could be a menu item that toggles between a) making
pasted objects dangle from the mouse (similar to what happens when
hitting ctrl-1), or b) shifting 10x10 for the same window and
leaving everything as is for different windows.(Hopefully I didn't double post this...)
-Jonathan
--- On Sat, 1/31/09, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
From: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-list Digest, Vol 46, Issue 108 To: "Ingo Scherzinger" ingo@miamiwave.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Saturday, January 31, 2009, 10:16 PM Yeah, I thought some people might do that. As it is now, newbies get really annoyed and frustrated, as well as some experienced users. I figure it is easy enough for someone in your position to hit shift- left-arrow, then shift-up-arrow and it'll be back to the original position. That's much easier than recovering from pasting a copy right on top of itself.
Maybe someone can come up with an even better idea that solves both issues.
.hc
On Jan 31, 2009, at 5:34 AM, Ingo Scherzinger wrote:
I agree with pasting to the same window the cursor
position would be
the best solution. But please leave it the way it is for
different
windows. I always copy objects that have been changed to almost
identical
windows and they are right in the spot where they belong. Changing
this
behaviour would be very annoying if you're doing things like this.
Ingo
well, the current behavior is helpful when pasting
into a different
window if it has similar dimensions, but if we are
copying a piece of a
patch which was way down in a window into a new window, then
the pasted code
ends up in the same place too and one has to go look for it.
This also happens
because the window doesn't focus in the pasted
section, but keeps the 0,0
coordinates. I think in general, (or when pasting to the same
window) it would
be nice to paste into the last clicked coordinate.
In any case I am so used to it by now that I can
survive in these
conditions.
J
On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, Miller Puckette mpuckett@imusic1.ucsd.eduwrote:
I think if pasting to the same window this
would be reasonable - but
I've
always had in mind, instead, to paste the
objects to a new place
determined
by current cursor position, which would be far
better. Just haven't
been
able to think it through and do it.
M On Fri, Jan 30, 2009 at 06:53:22PM -0500,
Hans-Christoph Steiner
wrote:
Hey all,
I was thinking that it would be nice if
copy-paste had the same
response and duplicate, i.e. shifting the
position over by 10
pixels in x and y, then pasting. I can't see
a good reason why paste
doesn't do that. Anyone know of any? Newbies get
very frustrated by the
current behavior. Regular users get used
to the Duplicate command,
but I don't know of any other programs
where you can't just copy-
paste and you need a special function.
.hc
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"[T]he greatest purveyor of violence in the world today [is] my own
government." - Martin Luther King, Jr.
Well, what if someone hits paste twice by mistake? Then you still have two copies on top of each other. Both 10x10 pixels moved from the original but still on top of each other. Maybe a more obvious solution would be that two objects on top of each other change color so you know there is something underneath it?
I know that's a totally different thing to implement and definitely not as easy as just moving the pasted objects by ten pixels or to the cursor.
For the simple solution: I would prefer to use the mouse cursor in the same window and leave the position for other windows. That's because the same window already contains the original objects so the copies need to be moved anyway. Another window probably does not contain identical objects up until now otherwise you wouldn't copy them there. So they should stay in the original position.
Ingo
Yeah, I was thinking something similar. Perhaps paste should always just leave the whole thing dangling on the mouse pointer until you click to put it down. Or maybe paste just does the 10x10 shift and Duplicate does the dangling behavior.
.hc
I recently discovered a use for how data structures in gops bleed through to the parent. test.pd demonstrates a gui object that jumps out of its gop box when clicked.
This technique is limited, though, because you can't manipulate the grob with the mouse once it goes outside the gop box; so a youtube type volume slider would have to be drawn within gop constraints to be usable. (The other drawback is obvious once you open the abstraction.)
-Jonathan
-
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Ingo Scherzinger -
IOhannes m zmoelnig -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Mathieu Bouchard