It is a ratio problem I believe. The initial problem stems from trying to shoehorn the original ratios/partials from the analysis of my 5 chimes, into equal temperament. There are a couple of reasons for this; I've been playing around on the piano after assigning each partial to its nearest midi/equal temperament note, and was liking the results that ensued whilst listening to them on the piano. Obviously the tones generated on the piano are much richer than individual sines. The original wind chime has been sat over my desk for the last 18 months, so I'm also very attuned to the original sounds. I would also like to have the various partials to be as modular as possible with the idea that I can 'mix'n'match' the various frequencies of the chimes to create new sonorities.
When I listen to the results of using equal temperament within my patch my ears don't like the results in comparison to the original frequencies, which has led to the current predicament.
One other question for you that might be a bit unrelated: are you looking for an equal temperament for your chimes? And if so, should the modular interval necessarily be an octave?
For instance, a scale I have liked lately is 19-tones per octave+fifth, which is very very close to 12-tones per octave, but you can do some interesting additive synthesis to "stretch" the partials so they match the equal temperament (that is, every partial number that is a power of two is now an octave+fifth higher than the last, rather than an octave in "normal" harmonic series... then all the other partials are just fit in logarithmically). Another is 11-tones per perfect 5th, which corresponds quite a bit to 19-tones per octave.
Equal temperaments can give you a systematic way of handling pitch that in my experience is a bit harder to navigate with just intonation/unequal temperament; at least they take a little bit less planning and experimentation.
It seems possible you could maybe reverse-engineer a "best-fit" equal temperament for your chimes that would not just give you the selection of the original partials, but a compositional space you could use with some more expression, so that the chimes fit in "organically" if they want to, but aren't the only thing going on. I haven't looked hard at your numbers though -- the more you have the harder it will be to find a "best-fit." Remember though, that a great deal of the expression in traditional Western classical music comes from some of the partials being out of tune with the underlying scale.
The "combine 5 partials, each chosen from one of the chimes" problem is quite a bit easier to solve, but attack transients and decays for each of partials, assuming you really will be using [osc~] will be paramount: they are a lot of what makes your chimes sound the way they do.
Sorry for the long wind,
Matt
Hey Matt,
Not windy at all:)
My current inclination would be to not use equal temperament. Though the 19 note scale is appealing creatively.
I guess, if anything, I'm currently thinking that a limited number of ratios may be the best solution. Some of the things I have said on a post I sent about an hour ago that still hasn't popped up yet, describe some of my current thought. I've also forwarded my piece as it currently stands with my last post entitled 'Bit Chime (rough draft)'. Hope it appears soon.
Bests,
Jbz
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Matt Barber brbrofsvl@gmail.com wrote:
It is a ratio problem I believe. The initial problem stems from trying to shoehorn the original ratios/partials from the analysis of my 5 chimes,
into
equal temperament. There are a couple of reasons for this; I've been playing around on the piano after assigning each partial to its nearest midi/equal temperament note, and was liking the results that ensued
whilst
listening to them on the piano. Obviously the tones generated on the
piano
are much richer than individual sines. The original wind chime has been
sat
over my desk for the last 18 months, so I'm also very attuned to the original sounds. I would also like to have the various partials to be as modular as possible with the idea that I can 'mix'n'match' the various frequencies of the chimes to create new sonorities.
When I listen to the results of using equal temperament within my patch
my
ears don't like the results in comparison to the original frequencies,
which
has led to the current predicament.
One other question for you that might be a bit unrelated: are you looking for an equal temperament for your chimes? And if so, should the modular interval necessarily be an octave?
For instance, a scale I have liked lately is 19-tones per octave+fifth, which is very very close to 12-tones per octave, but you can do some interesting additive synthesis to "stretch" the partials so they match the equal temperament (that is, every partial number that is a power of two is now an octave+fifth higher than the last, rather than an octave in "normal" harmonic series... then all the other partials are just fit in logarithmically). Another is 11-tones per perfect 5th, which corresponds quite a bit to 19-tones per octave.
Equal temperaments can give you a systematic way of handling pitch that in my experience is a bit harder to navigate with just intonation/unequal temperament; at least they take a little bit less planning and experimentation.
It seems possible you could maybe reverse-engineer a "best-fit" equal temperament for your chimes that would not just give you the selection of the original partials, but a compositional space you could use with some more expression, so that the chimes fit in "organically" if they want to, but aren't the only thing going on. I haven't looked hard at your numbers though -- the more you have the harder it will be to find a "best-fit." Remember though, that a great deal of the expression in traditional Western classical music comes from some of the partials being out of tune with the underlying scale.
The "combine 5 partials, each chosen from one of the chimes" problem is quite a bit easier to solve, but attack transients and decays for each of partials, assuming you really will be using [osc~] will be paramount: they are a lot of what makes your chimes sound the way they do.
Sorry for the long wind,
Matt
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J bz -
Matt Barber