--- On Sat, 2/19/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:

From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Saturday, February 19, 2011, 10:42 PM On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

...

How can you say that segmented patch cords are bad 95%

of the time when they are not even available in Pd 100% of the time? Just to take Miller's "Techniques" as an example, if there were segmented patch cords then all of his horizontal connections could be made unambiguous by having about 5px of vertical cord segment directly above the inlet.

If you continue arguing this, you could be wasting as much time as I did !

I'll continue to argue if hc gives me some Pd examples that back up his "95% bad" claim. But unless I'm missing a "turn on segmented patch cords" checkbutton buried in a menu somewhere, I believe this is the end of the argument.

-Jonathan

---

| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC

--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:

From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 1:40 AM On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

...

I'll continue to argue if hc gives me some Pd examples

that back up his "95% bad" claim. But unless I'm missing a "turn on segmented patch cords" checkbutton buried in a menu somewhere, I believe this is the end of the argument.

The claim has been used for a long time, to justify why pd doesn't have this feature. Even though Pd doesn't have it, MAX has it, and this is what people here refer to when they talk about segmented patch cords (most of the time).

http://cycling74.com/docs/max5/vignettes/core/max_alphabetical.html

I started at the top, checked the help for all the objects under "symbols" and "A". Thirty-five help docs with 27 segmented patch cords, and _none_ of them are ambiguous.

So what exactly are people referring to, other than some anecdotal evidence about some students somewhere who made some patches with some segmented patch cords that they thought looked bad?

-Jonathan

---

| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC

--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:

From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 5:01 AM On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

...

So what exactly are people referring to, other than

some anecdotal evidence about some students somewhere who made some patches with some segmented patch cords that they thought looked bad?

I mean that they might be referring to anecdotal evidence involving MAX.

Yeah, I heard that this one guy had so many segmented patch cords in Max that he got tangled up in them, and he drowned, and Phil Collins saw it happen and wrote the song "In the Air Tonight" about the incident.

-Jonathan

---

| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC

On Feb 19, 2011, at 9:50 PM, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

--- On Sun, 2/20/11, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:

...

From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca Subject: Re: [PD] FLOSS book Lists chapter To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: pd-list@iem.at Date: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 1:40 AM On Sat, 19 Feb 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:

...

I'll continue to argue if hc gives me some Pd examples

that back up his "95% bad" claim. But unless I'm missing a "turn on segmented patch cords" checkbutton buried in a menu somewhere, I believe this is the end of the argument.

The claim has been used for a long time, to justify why pd doesn't have this feature. Even though Pd doesn't have it, MAX has it, and this is what people here refer to when they talk about segmented patch cords (most of the time).

http://cycling74.com/docs/max5/vignettes/core/max_alphabetical.html

I started at the top, checked the help for all the objects under
"symbols" and "A". Thirty-five help docs with 27 segmented patch cords, and _none_ of them are ambiguous.

So what exactly are people referring to, other than some anecdotal evidence about some students somewhere who made some patches with some segmented patch cords that they thought looked bad?

http://cycling74.com/docs/max5/refpages/max-ref/logand.html The patch on the right side would be clearer if the patch cords were
straight lines, rather than having little corners near the inlet/ outlets. To my eye, the horizontal cords merge with the horizontal
lines of the object boxes.

http://cycling74.com/docs/max5/refpages/max-ref/accum.html The feedback on the right side is the only time I think its good. The
left side, the cords start to less readable since they are only
horizontal. The direction of the cords to [2( and [4( does not point
towards its destintation, but instead towards off screen.

http://cycling74.com/docs/max5/refpages/max-ref/atan.html Again, the cords don't point towards their destintations. That means
you're eye has to trace the line to see where it goes rather than skim
it.

.hc

If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

On Mon, 21 Feb 2011, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

I agree avoiding horizontal connections is good.  the 5% of the time when segmented patch cord are useful is when you need to take a patch cord from the bottom to the top of a patch to make a loop.

You mean that you only need to make loops 5 % of the time ? geez. What does 5 % of the time mean ? Is it 5 % of the patches or 5 % of the cords ?

But it's really not only about loops.

| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC