hey
percolate and more >>> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/pdworld.html
regards daniel .
----- Original Message ----- From: cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com To: "Chuckk Hubbard" badmuthahubbard@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Pd] Other synthesis methods Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:43:53 -0800 (PST)
Too bad there's no PERCOLATE for pd any more... Strange cus it is still around for Max, wonder if anybody could ever report it?
You could always use something like C-Sound with the pd external, or use OSC to control something like SuperCollider...
What style is it that your compositions are in?
!~David
I forgot to mention that absolute control of pitch is essential. I need to tell it what frequency the fundamental sounding pitch is. Naturally I want complicated waveforms, but FM and (I've just discovered) hardsyncing don't work...
On 2/20/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Hi. My Pure Data Just Intonation sequencing program is up and running, and I'm in the process of making music with it for a dance/music ensemble at my school. The problem is everyone says it sounds like Mario. I tried making a granulator, and it sounded good but used so much CPU I couldn't incorporate it into my sequencer. What I do have is 16 harmonics, filtered noise, a bp/lp/hp selector with cutoff and Q control, and adsr sliders. I have 8 copies of this, each of which only runs when it is changed, and writes its results to a graph, which the sequencer reads. Thus it is also possible to draw the waveform with the mouse, which I've found can make it a little less predictable. But too much of that makes it inharmonic, and even so it still sounds very 80's. I'd like the freedom to work in more sophisticated synthesis. What can I do?
there are various other ways to shape synthetic sounds, particularly as a part in a subtractive synth: have a look at frequency modulation, amplitude/ring modulation, oscillator hardsyncing (resetting the phase of an oscillator by another oscillator), or pulsewidth modulation. you can create very interesting sounds if you gently combine these methods, for example feeding a hardsynced oscillator output as a frequency modulator into it's own sync source... something that works good on more complex signals than sinewaves is having a signal delayed by a (maybe amplified, dc'd and shaped) form of itself (having the signal as a source for the delay length of a vd~). be sure to check if lfos and (adsr-)envelopes applied in any part of your construction (modulation depths, frequency microtunings, filter cutoffs, pulsewidths, etc.) can do any good. with such techniques, your synths won't sound like mario, but more like luigi or princess toadstool. another approach might be simple physical modeling: you can create a plucked string which sounds crappy in the bass region but fairly harp-ish in the upper octaves by sending a short, single triangle- (or whatever-) shaped impulse into a feedback loop the length of the note frequency^-1. with a slight lowpass applied on each iteration the signal will warmly fade out. just ask if you have any questions about implementing these techniques.
some synthesis links -> http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles17.htm
mfg charlie
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover of knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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If Chuck is on Linux, hopefully that will be helpful for him!!! But it's not cross-platform (I'm still on Windoze).
For me in the present - looks like I have to stick with Max/Jitter to run Percolate. Question: If I did get Linux going, and I'm using Demudi/Ubuntu, I have to compile Percolate myself right, cus it's a different distribution? How hard would that be? Having those sounds would make PD definitely more attractive for synthesis, I actually lately was using it with GEM for visuals. and not for audio, because of some of the limitations involved in having only low-level building blocks. I'd kill for some externals/abstractions that have anti-aliased, analog sounding square and sawtooth waves, for instance... Anyway, I still like PD enough I'll probably run other things like Reaktor and Max/Jitter using OSC. Cus PD is elegant. And with GriPD I think it will be nice for interface design.
PS. Yes, I do plan to fix my laptop to dual-boot to both Windoze (sorry some software is too good to give up, unless I get a Mac), but given the complexity of getting Linux running well with all software I need, that's probably not going to happen for 6 months. I will say, the Demudi-Live boots up okay, but I'm not sure how to set up things to get it running beyond that (partition/install/configure for audio). Most instructions out there make assumptions that just don't make sense to a non-Linux user (they skip steps, assume knowledge you don't have, don't explain things in detail). Somebody write some better help documents for this stuff!!!
~David
hey
percolate and more >>> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/pdworld.html
regards daniel .
----- Original Message ----- From: cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com To: "Chuckk Hubbard" badmuthahubbard@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Pd] Other synthesis methods Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:43:53 -0800 (PST)
Too bad there's no PERCOLATE for pd any more... Strange cus it is still around for Max, wonder if anybody could ever report it?
You could always use something like C-Sound with the pd external, or use OSC to control something like SuperCollider...
What style is it that your compositions are in?
!~David
I forgot to mention that absolute control of pitch is essential. I
need
to tell it what frequency the fundamental sounding pitch is. Naturally I want complicated waveforms, but FM and (I've just discovered) hardsyncing
don't
work...
On 2/20/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de
wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Hi. My Pure Data Just Intonation sequencing program is up and running,
and
I'm in the process of making music with it for a dance/music
ensemble
at my school. The problem is everyone says it sounds like Mario.
I
tried making a granulator, and it sounded good but used so much CPU
I
couldn't incorporate it into my sequencer. What I do have is 16 harmonics, filtered noise, a bp/lp/hp selector with cutoff and Q control, and adsr sliders. I have 8 copies of
this,
each of which only runs when it is changed, and writes its results
to
a graph, which the sequencer reads. Thus it is also possible to
draw
the waveform with the mouse, which I've found can make it a little less predictable. But too much of that makes it inharmonic, and
even
so it still sounds very 80's. I'd like the freedom to work in more sophisticated synthesis. What can I do?
there are various other ways to shape synthetic sounds, particularly
as
a part in a subtractive synth: have a look at frequency modulation, amplitude/ring modulation, oscillator hardsyncing (resetting the
phase
of an oscillator by another oscillator), or pulsewidth modulation.
you
can create very interesting sounds if you gently combine these
methods,
for example feeding a hardsynced oscillator output as a frequency modulator into it's own sync source... something that works good on
more
complex signals than sinewaves is having a signal delayed by a (maybe amplified, dc'd and shaped) form of itself (having the signal as a source for the delay length of a vd~). be sure to check if lfos and (adsr-)envelopes applied in any part of your construction (modulation depths, frequency microtunings, filter cutoffs, pulsewidths, etc.)
can
do any good. with such techniques, your synths won't sound like
mario,
but more like luigi or princess toadstool. another approach might be simple physical modeling: you can create a plucked string which sounds crappy in the bass region but fairly harp-ish in the upper octaves by sending a short, single triangle-
(or
whatever-) shaped impulse into a feedback loop the length of the note frequency^-1. with a slight lowpass applied on each iteration the
signal
will warmly fade out. just ask if you have any questions about implementing these
techniques.
some synthesis links -> http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles17.htm
mfg charlie
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
of
knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com wrote:
I'd kill for some externals/abstractions that have anti-aliased, analog sounding square and sawtooth waves, for instance...
It's hard to beat the Reaktor sound engine in terms of filters and oscillators. I've given up trying to get a filter in PD which sounds really like it should in musical/synthesis terms. I think all the filter objects have been designed with mathematics in mind rather than sound. There's also strange inconsistencies between the different libraries as to how the resonance/Q works, for example.
As for oscillators, you could try the [blosc] object in the Creb library, but I've never used it. My choice has been to run the [plugin~] object with the BLOP LADSPA plugins. These are amazing-sounding bandpass-limited oscillators which do square, saw and pulse-width-modulated rectangular and triangular waveforms. Very fat, very analog-sounding. Most LADSPA stuff compiles on OSX, BTW, but windows folks are still left out.
best, derek
On Feb 24, 2006, at 10:11 PM, derek holzer wrote:
It's hard to beat the Reaktor sound engine in terms of filters and oscillators.
it's funny.. at namm last year i seem to remember seeing the Reaktor guys with several copies of "The Csound Book" under their table.
my point is simply that [csoundapi~] is superior.
./d5
I know I broke my teeth on the csound book! Good tip with the osx ladspa info. Will look into!
Here is a simple patch showing _musical_ useage of fm. (By this I mean it uses midi numbers and midi pitches to define the carrier:modulator ratio.)
Enjoy!
~Kyle
On 2/24/06, day 5 day5ive@gmail.com wrote:
On Feb 24, 2006, at 10:11 PM, derek holzer wrote:
It's hard to beat the Reaktor sound engine in terms of filters and oscillators.
it's funny.. at namm last year i seem to remember seeing the Reaktor guys with several copies of "The Csound Book" under their table.
my point is simply that [csoundapi~] is superior.
./d5
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- http://perhapsidid.blogspot.com (((())))(()()((((((((()())))()(((((((())()()())()))) (())))))(()))))))))))))(((((((((((()()))))))))((()))) ))(((((((((((())))())))))))))))))))__________ _____())))))(((((((((((((()))))))))))_______ ((((((())))))))))))((((((((000)))oOOOOOO
On Feb 24, 2006, at 10:11 PM, derek holzer wrote:
cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com wrote:
I'd kill for some externals/abstractions that have anti-aliased,
analog sounding square and sawtooth waves, for instance...It's hard to beat the Reaktor sound engine in terms of filters and
oscillators. I've given up trying to get a filter in PD which
sounds really like it should in musical/synthesis terms. I think
all the filter objects have been designed with mathematics in mind
rather than sound. There's also strange inconsistencies between the
different libraries as to how the resonance/Q works, for example.As for oscillators, you could try the [blosc] object in the Creb
library, but I've never used it. My choice has been to run the
[plugin~] object with the BLOP LADSPA plugins. These are amazing- sounding bandpass-limited oscillators which do square, saw and
pulse-width-modulated rectangular and triangular waveforms. Very
fat, very analog-sounding. Most LADSPA stuff compiles on OSX, BTW,
but windows folks are still left out.
I didn't know that LADSPA worked on Mac OS X, that would be good to
have in Pd-extended. Any volunteers? Also, with MinGW, you might
just get LADSPA working on Windows. For example, about half of /
externals/ compiled with MSVC. I think all except [shell] compiled
with MinGW.
.hc ________________________________________________________________________ ____
"Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic.
It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and
expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war
on terrorism."
- retired U.S. Army general,
William Odom
Hi HC,
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I didn't know that LADSPA worked on Mac OS X, that would be good to have in Pd-extended. Any volunteers? Also, with MinGW, you might just get LADSPA working on Windows. For example, about half of /externals/ compiled with MSVC. I think all except [shell] compiled with MinGW.
The folks at Ardour.org have even been so kind as to provide DMG installers for several of the LADPSA plugin libraries:
http://www.ardour.org/download.php
I don't see the BLOP library there, which is a bit of a pity because that was one of my problem libraries when I did some research on Linux apps for OSX last October:
http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2005-October/013727.html
You could follow the thread to see some of the authors' suggestions. Stephane Letz suggested replacing -shared with -bundle in the makefile to get BLOP and some other LADSPAs to compile:
http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2005-October/013733.html
I guess [plugin~] would need to be compiled for LADSPA support, right? I don't find [plugin~] in your extended installers, HC, so I couldn't check and see if the LADSPA libs work "out of the box".
best, d.
On Feb 25, 2006, at 8:10 PM, derek holzer wrote:
Hi HC,
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I didn't know that LADSPA worked on Mac OS X, that would be good
to have in Pd-extended. Any volunteers? Also, with MinGW, you
might just get LADSPA working on Windows. For example, about half
of /externals/ compiled with MSVC. I think all except [shell]
compiled with MinGW.The folks at Ardour.org have even been so kind as to provide DMG
installers for several of the LADPSA plugin libraries:http://www.ardour.org/download.php
I don't see the BLOP library there, which is a bit of a pity
because that was one of my problem libraries when I did some
research on Linux apps for OSX last October:http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2005-October/ 013727.html
You could follow the thread to see some of the authors'
suggestions. Stephane Letz suggested replacing -shared with -bundle
in the makefile to get BLOP and some other LADSPAs to compile:http://music.columbia.edu/pipermail/linux-audio-dev/2005-October/ 013733.html
I guess [plugin~] would need to be compiled for LADSPA support,
right? I don't find [plugin~] in your extended installers, HC, so I
couldn't check and see if the LADSPA libs work "out of the box".
I don't think that [plugin~] has been ported to Mac OS X, or at least
its not included in the build system.
.hc
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
Hi,
If people are looking for anaolgue-style, 'legacy' synth emulations, I would recommend looking at DSSI plugins as well as LADSPA plugins. Whysynth, for example has a nice range of basic waveforms, and a very useable GUI for editing patches. See dssi.sourceforge.net.
All of these can be incorporated into a PD patch with my dssi~ object which is available in CVS and on puredata.org. It compiles on both Linux and OS X, and there is an OS X binary in the archive on the puredata site.
You will need something like GTK+OSX to compile the GTK based plugins on OS X.
Jamie
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 15:19:59 -0800 (PST) cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com wrote:
If Chuck is on Linux, hopefully that will be helpful for him!!! But it's not cross-platform (I'm still on Windoze).
For me in the present - looks like I have to stick with Max/Jitter to run Percolate. Question: If I did get Linux going, and I'm using Demudi/Ubuntu, I have to compile Percolate myself right, cus it's a different distribution? How hard would that be? Having those sounds would make PD definitely more attractive for synthesis, I actually lately was using it with GEM for visuals. and not for audio, because of some of the limitations involved in having only low-level building blocks. I'd kill for some externals/abstractions that have anti-aliased, analog sounding square and sawtooth waves, for instance... Anyway, I still like PD enough I'll probably run other things like Reaktor and Max/Jitter using OSC. Cus PD is elegant. And with GriPD I think it will be nice for interface design.
PS. Yes, I do plan to fix my laptop to dual-boot to both Windoze (sorry some software is too good to give up, unless I get a Mac), but given the complexity of getting Linux running well with all software I need, that's probably not going to happen for 6 months. I will say, the Demudi-Live boots up okay, but I'm not sure how to set up things to get it running beyond that (partition/install/configure for audio). Most instructions out there make assumptions that just don't make sense to a non-Linux user (they skip steps, assume knowledge you don't have, don't explain things in detail). Somebody write some better help documents for this stuff!!!
~David
hey
percolate and more >>> http://ccrma.stanford.edu/planetccrma/software/pdworld.html
regards daniel .
----- Original Message ----- From: cyborgk@nocturnalnoize.com To: "Chuckk Hubbard" badmuthahubbard@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Pd] Other synthesis methods Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:43:53 -0800 (PST)
Too bad there's no PERCOLATE for pd any more... Strange cus it is still around for Max, wonder if anybody could ever report it?
You could always use something like C-Sound with the pd external, or use OSC to control something like SuperCollider...
What style is it that your compositions are in?
!~David
I forgot to mention that absolute control of pitch is essential. I
need
to tell it what frequency the fundamental sounding pitch is. Naturally I want complicated waveforms, but FM and (I've just discovered) hardsyncing
don't
work...
On 2/20/06, Christopher Charles schraubzwingenhalterung@web.de
wrote:
Chuckk Hubbard wrote:
Hi. My Pure Data Just Intonation sequencing program is up and running,
and
I'm in the process of making music with it for a dance/music
ensemble
at my school. The problem is everyone says it sounds like Mario.
I
tried making a granulator, and it sounded good but used so much CPU
I
couldn't incorporate it into my sequencer. What I do have is 16 harmonics, filtered noise, a bp/lp/hp selector with cutoff and Q control, and adsr sliders. I have 8 copies of
this,
each of which only runs when it is changed, and writes its results
to
a graph, which the sequencer reads. Thus it is also possible to
draw
the waveform with the mouse, which I've found can make it a little less predictable. But too much of that makes it inharmonic, and
even
so it still sounds very 80's. I'd like the freedom to work in more sophisticated synthesis. What can I do?
there are various other ways to shape synthetic sounds, particularly
as
a part in a subtractive synth: have a look at frequency modulation, amplitude/ring modulation, oscillator hardsyncing (resetting the
phase
of an oscillator by another oscillator), or pulsewidth modulation.
you
can create very interesting sounds if you gently combine these
methods,
for example feeding a hardsynced oscillator output as a frequency modulator into it's own sync source... something that works good on
more
complex signals than sinewaves is having a signal delayed by a (maybe amplified, dc'd and shaped) form of itself (having the signal as a source for the delay length of a vd~). be sure to check if lfos and (adsr-)envelopes applied in any part of your construction (modulation depths, frequency microtunings, filter cutoffs, pulsewidths, etc.)
can
do any good. with such techniques, your synths won't sound like
mario,
but more like luigi or princess toadstool. another approach might be simple physical modeling: you can create a plucked string which sounds crappy in the bass region but fairly harp-ish in the upper octaves by sending a short, single triangle-
(or
whatever-) shaped impulse into a feedback loop the length of the note frequency^-1. with a slight lowpass applied on each iteration the
signal
will warmly fade out. just ask if you have any questions about implementing these
techniques.
some synthesis links -> http://www.theprojectstudiohandbook.com/articles17.htm
mfg charlie
-- "It is not when truth is dirty, but when it is shallow, that the lover
of
knowledge is reluctant to step into its waters." -Friedrich Nietzsche, "Thus Spoke Zarathustra" _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
personally i don't like the sound reaktor makes.
..the filters are 'good', but seem to get re-used in a lot of the synths...so almost every synth in the reaktor library ends up having the signal pass through at least one of their standard filter bits.
it all ends up sounding a bit 'mcdonalds' to my ears.
-
cyborgk＠nocturnalnoize.com -
daniel kosenko -
day 5 -
derek holzer -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
hard off -
Jamie Bullock -
Kyle Klipowicz