Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well. I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.
wondering, matt
you might get a more balenced answere on a max mailing list, since most of us here chose not to buy max ;)
Matthew Williams wrote:
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well.
I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.wondering, matt
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and bought a $60 nine month student license and at the end I was *NOT* convinced it was worth the $$$ those greedy guys are after.
Pure Data 0wns MAXMSP !1!111!!1! Why 0wns ? Because MSP is involved with Pd not his namesake!!
-D5
On Oct 29, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Josh Steiner wrote:
you might get a more balenced answere on a max mailing list, since most of us here chose not to buy max ;)
Matthew Williams wrote:
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well.
I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.wondering, matt
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 04:04:20PM -0400, day 5 wrote:
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and bought a $60 nine month student license and at the end I was *NOT* convinced it was worth the $$$ those greedy guys are after.
hrmm. if i really wanted to use a graphical dataflow patcher environment right this minute/second/day, id proably consider buying max. ive certainly spent $495 of my time trying to make PD acceptable, and would proably need a lot more to get it there. i mean the basics like "click a icon, and it just works" for one... not to mention all the usability improvements, video and openGL stuff in the patcher, wrap-to-plugins etc..
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one are a limitation in the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages (javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i need ruby for this..."
Pure Data 0wns MAXMSP !1!111!!1! Why 0wns ? Because MSP is involved with Pd not his namesake!!
-D5
On Oct 29, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Josh Steiner wrote:
you might get a more balenced answere on a max mailing list, since most of us here chose not to buy max ;)
Matthew Williams wrote:
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well.
I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.wondering, matt
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
carmen wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 04:04:20PM -0400, day 5 wrote:
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and bought a $60 nine month student license and at the end I was *NOT* convinced it was worth the $$$ those greedy guys are after.
hrmm. if i really wanted to use a graphical dataflow patcher environment right this minute/second/day, id proably consider buying max. ive certainly spent $495 of my time trying to make PD acceptable, and would proably need a lot more to get it there. i mean the basics like "click a icon, and it just works" for one... not to mention all the usability improvements, video and openGL stuff in the patcher, wrap-to-plugins etc..
mm, you mean "one-click users", i don't exactly see the interest...
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one are a limitation in the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages (javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i need ruby for this..."
i definitely like that Miller's statement, "max is an old-program", think it's not even open to python ))
anyway, the problem is not even this, it is how once free ideas got into the market. but id on't want to waste time on competing with max, pd is different and everybody here tries to make it better, although better doesn't mean more simple, not all the time.
saludos, sevy
Is there a program like cyclops in PD? SOmething that will let you create zones on the video input to determine light/color etc?
--- Yves Degoyon ydegoyon@free.fr wrote:
carmen wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 04:04:20PM -0400, day 5
wrote:
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and
bought a $60 nine
month student license and at the end I was *NOT*
convinced it was worth
the $$$ those greedy guys are after.
hrmm. if i really wanted to use a graphical
dataflow patcher environment right this minute/second/day, id proably consider buying max. ive certainly spent $495 of my time trying to make PD acceptable, and would proably need a lot more to get it there. i mean the basics like "click a icon, and it just works" for one... not to mention all the usability improvements, video and openGL stuff in the patcher, wrap-to-plugins etc..
mm, you mean "one-click users", i don't exactly see the interest...
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one
are a limitation in the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages (javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i need ruby for this..."
i definitely like that Miller's statement, "max is an old-program", think it's not even open to python ))
anyway, the problem is not even this, it is how once free ideas got into the market. but id on't want to waste time on competing with max, pd is different and everybody here tries to make it better, although better doesn't mean more simple, not all the time.
saludos, sevy
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
[ pdp_cropper ] | [ pdp_hue ]
or
[ pdp_histo ]
ok, only works with square zones
cheers, sevy
julieta Maria wrote:
Is there a program like cyclops in PD? SOmething that will let you create zones on the video input to determine light/color etc?
--- Yves Degoyon ydegoyon@free.fr wrote:
carmen wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 04:04:20PM -0400, day 5
wrote:
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and
bought a $60 nine
month student license and at the end I was *NOT*
convinced it was worth
the $$$ those greedy guys are after.
hrmm. if i really wanted to use a graphical
dataflow patcher environment right this minute/second/day, id proably consider buying max. ive certainly spent $495 of my time trying to make PD acceptable, and would proably need a lot more to get it there. i mean the basics like "click a icon, and it just works" for one... not to mention all the usability improvements, video and openGL stuff in the patcher, wrap-to-plugins etc..
mm, you mean "one-click users", i don't exactly see the interest...
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one
are a limitation in the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages (javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i need ruby for this..."
i definitely like that Miller's statement, "max is an old-program", think it's not even open to python ))
anyway, the problem is not even this, it is how once free ideas got into the market. but id on't want to waste time on competing with max, pd is different and everybody here tries to make it better, although better doesn't mean more simple, not all the time.
saludos, sevy
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
__________________________________ Yahoo! FareChase: Search multiple travel sites in one click. http://farechase.yahoo.com
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Hi Yves,
i definitely like that Miller's statement, "max is an old-program", think it's not even open to python ))
the latter is not exactly true, since pyext works for Max as well (although it's not tested to the same extent). As far as i know there's also a second Python object by someone else.
gr~~~
On Oct 29, 2005, at 4:24 PM, carmen wrote:
On Sat, Oct 29, 2005 at 04:04:20PM -0400, day 5 wrote:
Oh man isn't that some truth!! I learned Max and bought a $60 nine month student license and at the end I was *NOT* convinced it was
worth the $$$ those greedy guys are after.hrmm. if i really wanted to use a graphical dataflow patcher
environment right this minute/second/day, id proably consider buying
max. ive certainly spent $495 of my time trying to make PD acceptable,
and would proably need a lot more to get it there. i mean the basics
like "click a icon, and it just works" for one... not to mention all
the usability improvements, video and openGL stuff in the patcher,
wrap-to-plugins etc..
Well, the Pd.app is now easier to install than Max on Mac OS X. Just
drag-n-drop and double-click. Now that Jamie got a statically linked
PDP working, that works too. It is possible to get it working very
nicely, it just takes some work. Just look how far we have come. For
an demo of this, check out pure-data.org from Dec. 2001:
http://web.archive.org/web/20011202213922/http://www.pure-data.org/
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one are a limitation in
the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages
(javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of
extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i
need ruby for this..."
I totally agree! Pd can be a programming platform, it does not need to
be just an application. All great programming platforms are written in
themselves: C, Java, Lisp, SmallTalk, etc. so why not Pd too? It needs
some work to accomplish this, but it is within reach.
.hc
Pure Data 0wns MAXMSP !1!111!!1! Why 0wns ? Because MSP is involved with Pd not his namesake!!
-D5
On Oct 29, 2005, at 1:02 PM, Josh Steiner wrote:
you might get a more balenced answere on a max mailing list, since most of us here chose not to buy max ;)
Matthew Williams wrote:
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well. I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.
wondering, matt
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Using ReBirth is like trying to play an 808 with a long stick. -David Zicarelli
On Tue, 1 Nov 2005, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
On Oct 29, 2005, at 4:24 PM, carmen wrote:
but a lot of things that are a limitation in one are a limitation in the other, i mean why do you see so many cases of hacking in languages (javascript in max, everying-but-javascript in pd) instead of extending/flexibilitating the core so that you dont think "damnit, i need ruby for this..."
I totally agree! Pd can be a programming platform, it does not need to be just an application. All great programming platforms are written in themselves: C, Java, Lisp, SmallTalk, etc. so why not Pd too? It needs some work to accomplish this, but it is within reach.
It takes a really long arm to have it within reach. (How many elbows?)
But I'm definitely not giving up.
And certainly it's a good start to make more abstractions. E.g. when I wanted to rewrite Ruby in Ruby, I didn't have the skills nor the guts to attack the meat of the problem, that is, the interpreter itself; but still I started working on the project: I started with easy parts. I recoded a lot of C code as Ruby code so that it becomes easier in the future to make not only a Ruby-in-Ruby interpreter, but also a Ruby-in-whatever interpreter.
Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801 - http://artengine.ca/matju Freelance Digital Arts Engineer, Montréal QC Canada
I totally agree! Pd can be a programming platform, it does not need to be just an application. All great programming platforms are written in themselves: C, Java, Lisp, SmallTalk, etc. so why not Pd too? It needs some work to accomplish this, but it is within reach.
one has to distinguish between the language and the standard library: in most languages the standard library is written in the language itself, although there are exceptions. the interpreter/compiler may be written in the language, but not necessarily ...
some examples:
- the emacs lisp interpreter is written in c
- parts of the python library are written in c due to performance
reasons
- parts of the libc are written in assembler due to performance reasons
maybe you can write a pd interpreter in pd ... but i think it will be 10 to 100 times slower than writing it in c or rewriting it in c++. currently there are lots of language features missing in pd (e.g. constructors / destructors of patches, data encapsulation) and i doubt that pd will ever have these features ...
cheers ... tim
Another reason for pd is the license and that it runs on a free os. This is interesting when you do art installations and dont want to buy a os license for each box like windows (yuck) or worse, buy a propritary box and os license like Mac OSX. Plus you don't need to fiddle around with dongles or response code registry stuff to install it. This can be important when your patch misbehaves on location and you need to edit it although your available computers already had ran through the whole Max demo period. PD feels better in such situations...
Cheers,
Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com-
If you like calling support, that's one reason to buy Max. Their
documentation is quite good and more complete than Pd's. But in terms
of what you can do with them, they are largely the same, with Max
having some stronger areas and Pd have other stronger areas. Max is
more of an application, while Pd is more of a research bed for new
ideas.
.hc
On Oct 29, 2005, at 9:56 AM, Matthew Williams wrote:
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when
you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make
plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well.
I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is
great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the
differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.wondering, matt
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management ->
http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.
- Eldridge Cleaver
Hi Matt,
Ok i'm curious .... why would someone spend 400 dollars on max when you can get pd for free. Is it because of the ability to make plugin's using pluggo. But can't you make plug-ins from pd as well.
I was going to buy max but i came across pd and thought, "this is great..max for free." Am i wrong. And yes i read about the differences .. but they don't justify 400 dollars.
i use both programs on a regular basis. Realizing things in PD usually takes more time (for me at least), probably because the help reference is far more usable and there are built-in GUI objects which allow for better interaction with the patches. As i teach both PD and Max/MSP i can tell by the experiences with the students that Max/MSP is easier to start with, first because configuration is much more intuitive and second because of the tutorials and the amounts of documentation. Things usually also work instantly, without need for consulting the forum. PD on the other hand runs on linux, which is preferable for installations. Since it's open-source bugs can be fixed quickly and new features be implemented without being dependent on the maintainers, so PD is more customizable than Max/MSP.
gr~~~
-
carmen -
day 5 -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Josh Steiner -
julieta Maria -
Malte Steiner -
Mathieu Bouchard -
Matthew Williams -
Thomas Grill -
Tim Blechmann -
Yves Degoyon