eheh, I'm glad the concept of "technological parody" is giving so much to discuss :) We should put up a twitter account with the #technologicalparody (kidding)
M
I caught on to it, just because I liked the phrase so much. But there are some real examples--Rube-Goldberg machines come right to mind, but you never see them in real life as anything other than comedy.
There may be more real-life examples from hacker/builder communities--like, say, a robotic fridge designed to fire a can of beer into the air. Although it may be an awesome novelty, it's not actually practical. Hence, it's nearly a mockery of robotics to build it. No offense to the creators of beer can canons--but you knew it was going to be a joke before you started.
So, there's a clear comparison between Pd and Guitar Hero that illustrates the difference. With Guitar Hero on your favorite console, you have a specialized controller, useless for any other "games", that only plays canned guitar riffs from a CD. Moreover, the software has to run on particular hardware. Then, a clever programmer with Pd can take that same ridiculous controller and use it for whatever he/she wants.
Chuck
How is the guitar hero example not just an example of locked down proprietary consoles vs. free software ideals?
Put another way: if the console/game were free and open, guitar hero would be the equivalent of a starting point, or maybe (even a tutorial like B07.sampler.pd), that you do before going on to do more expressive and creative things with the controller-- just a way to build facility on the controller. And there would be a community of people modding the hell out of the game, and creating new games. So in this alternate universe guitar hero would be a good thing (that leads to better things), but it would still be a technological parody.
The Rube Goldberg machines and the fridge are great examples of parodies-- I suppose we can call them technological parodies if we want to be precise. But for things that are not actually meant as parodies, it's a misnomer that just seems like an ideological term of derision.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
From: Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com Subject: [PD] [OT] technological parody was: Pd performance at TED To: pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 9:00 PM
eheh, I'm glad the concept of "technological parody" is giving so much to discuss :)We should put up a twitter account with the #technologicalparody (kidding)
M I caught on to it, just because I liked the phrase so much. But there are some real examples--Rube-Goldberg machines come right to mind, but you never see them in real life as anything other than comedy.
There may be more real-life examples from hacker/builder communities--like, say, a robotic fridge designed to fire a can of beer into the air. Although it may be an awesome novelty, it's not actually practical. Hence, it's nearly a mockery of robotics to build it. No offense to the creators of beer can canons--but you knew it was going to be a joke before you started.
So, there's a clear comparison between Pd and Guitar Hero that illustrates the difference. With Guitar Hero on your favorite console, you have a specialized controller, useless for any other "games", that only plays canned guitar riffs from a CD. Moreover, the software has to run on particular hardware. Then, a clever programmer with Pd can take that same ridiculous controller and use it for whatever he/she wants.
Chuck
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On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
The Rube Goldberg machines and the fridge are great examples of parodies-- I suppose we can call them technological parodies if we want to be precise. But for things that are not actually meant as parodies, it's a misnomer that just seems like an
ideological term of derision.
Correct. It's a kids game, I know... and it works as intended. Yes--I am deriding it even though I probably don't have to.
so, I guess you mean to say that a *real* parody has to be intentional? I doubt the creators of the robotic beer fridge thought they were creating a parody--but the sheer impracticality and high-technology implementation *makes* it one.
So, calling *anything* a "technological parody" is as you said, just an ideological term of derision. But after all, you can create anything you want, it depends on how it's received by other people what labels they would put on it.
On Wed, 22 Jun 2011 16:33:03 -0500 Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
so, I guess you mean to say that a *real* parody has to be intentional? I doubt the creators of the robotic beer fridge thought they were creating a parody--but the sheer impracticality and high-technology implementation *makes* it one.
Chindogu is a technology parody It must must be completely unneccessary, or detrimental to the actual goal, while seeming superficially plausible; so battery operated rotating spaghetti forks and hats with fans to keep you cool (but beware of fan death, and never wear them to bed).
You're right-- the creator's intentions don't matter here, that's beside the point.
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
From: Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] technological parody was: Pd performance at TED To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com, pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 11:33 PM
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
The Rube Goldberg machines and the fridge are great examples of parodies-- I suppose we can call them technological parodies if we want to be precise. But for things that are not actually meant as parodies, it's a misnomer that just seems like an ideological term of derision.
Correct. It's a kids game, I know... and it works as intended. Yes--I am deriding it even though I probably don't have to.
so, I guess you mean to say that a *real* parody has to be intentional? I doubt the creators of the robotic beer fridge thought they were creating a parody--but the sheer impracticality and high-technology implementation *makes* it one.
So, calling *anything* a "technological parody" is as you said, just an ideological term of derision. But after all, you can create anything you want, it depends on how it's received by other people what labels they would put on it.
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
How is the guitar hero example not just an example of locked down proprietary consoles vs. free software ideals?
I think you missed the contrast. Pd is clearly not a "technological parody", even if it looks like just a software version of patching together synthesizers/effects. That was the point. I think we're going to suck all the fun out of this expression now... I do this often enough on the list.
Other than that--GH is stupid. and I think that's a perfectly good reason to trash it. I selected it as the first real example of something that I think is a joke of technology.
I know, sucking of said life happens often on a list like this, but I'm just challenging you based on the definition of the term offered on this thread.
Pd is not a technological parody, but the patch to which I referred is. If it seems suitable to call one thing by this term because we want to deride it, but not another thing to which it applies because we like and use it, then the term doesn't help further the discourse. That's what I mean by "ideological"-- a very general sense of the word.
Also, I do think I'm on point with regard to locked-down-proprietary vs. free/open. I mean I could turn it around by imagining someone taking B07.sampler.pd on a small form factor machine with DRM and hooking up some kind of turntable controller so you could scratch "continuous soft music" till your heart's content, but that's all. That would be equally as stupid. On the other hand, that patch is a great tutorial patch in it's current context-- as someone mentioned, just start adding objects (or iemguis) and you can quickly extend it to do cool things.
Or from the other end-- think of hooking up a mouse to the console where someone is playing Guitar Hero, getting a pointer, then right-clicking on some part of the screen that brings up the Pd abstraction responsible for outputting the song to the speakers, or mapping the controller input... Ok you can't actually do that, I know, but that's the point, really-- if you could it we'd be talking about free software, and technological parody or no, we'd quickly be doing some cool things with that game. :)
-Jonathan
--- On Wed, 6/22/11, Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com wrote:
From: Charles Henry czhenry@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [OT] technological parody was: Pd performance at TED To: "Jonathan Wilkes" jancsika@yahoo.com, pd-list@iem.at Date: Wednesday, June 22, 2011, 11:40 PM
On Wed, Jun 22, 2011 at 2:43 PM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
How is the guitar hero example not just an example of locked down proprietary consoles vs. free software ideals?
I think you missed the contrast. Pd is clearly not a "technological parody", even if it looks like just a software version of patching together synthesizers/effects. That was the point. I think we're going to suck all the fun out of this expression now... I do this often enough on the list.
Other than that--GH is stupid. and I think that's a perfectly good reason to trash it. I selected it as the first real example of something that I think is a joke of technology.
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Andy Farnell -
Charles Henry -
Jonathan Wilkes