On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 09:06:49AM -0800, Ken wrote:
Why is it that it seems that one should feel guilty about having a cosmetically beautifull tool to create/express oneself with?
I'm was not trying to be an aesthetic moralist, and guiltiness is counter productive.
I mean we spend alot of time there, personally I want a nice view, (like women?)...
I never though of PD as a sexual object.
Marc
On Saturday 22 November 2003 13:04, Marc Lavallée wrote:
On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 09:06:49AM -0800, Ken wrote:
Why is it that it seems that one should feel guilty about having a cosmetically beautifull tool to create/express oneself with?
I'm was not trying to be an aesthetic moralist, and guiltiness is counter productive.
I mean we spend alot of time there, personally I want a nice view, (like women?)...
I never though of PD as a sexual object.
I'm kind of bewildered about this as well - to me, PD is just a tool to *create* something beautifull, namely music. It doesn't need to be artistic in itself.
And because using PD takes some serious left-brain thinking, I'm a bit surprised that many users care about it's graphical appearance. But obviously they do.
I suppose the analogy here would be that some musicians prefer their instruments to look nice, hence nice looking grand pianos, snazzy looking guitars, and the like.
Larry
Hallo, Larry Troxler hat gesagt: // Larry Troxler wrote:
I'm kind of bewildered about this as well - to me, PD is just a tool to *create* something beautifull, namely music. It doesn't need to be artistic in itself.
And because using PD takes some serious left-brain thinking, I'm a bit surprised that many users care about it's graphical appearance. But obviously they do.
I suppose the analogy here would be that some musicians prefer their instruments to look nice, hence nice looking grand pianos, snazzy looking guitars, and the like.
In general I fully agree with your view, because that's pretty much the way how I use Pd.
But I see an area where looks are important, and that is in building interfaces for (live) performances. Here things have to be intuitive and very easy and fast to use. To achieve this is quite a bit more difficult in Pd than it should be.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
Check out Joe Sarlo's GrIPD -- it's a sort of interface builder you can put in front of Pd.
cheers Miller
On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 11:21:40PM +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Larry Troxler hat gesagt: // Larry Troxler wrote:
I'm kind of bewildered about this as well - to me, PD is just a tool to *create* something beautifull, namely music. It doesn't need to be artistic in itself.
And because using PD takes some serious left-brain thinking, I'm a bit surprised that many users care about it's graphical appearance. But obviously they do.
I suppose the analogy here would be that some musicians prefer their instruments to look nice, hence nice looking grand pianos, snazzy looking guitars, and the like.
In general I fully agree with your view, because that's pretty much the way how I use Pd.
But I see an area where looks are important, and that is in building interfaces for (live) performances. Here things have to be intuitive and very easy and fast to use. To achieve this is quite a bit more difficult in Pd than it should be.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Miller Puckette hat gesagt: // Miller Puckette wrote:
Check out Joe Sarlo's GrIPD -- it's a sort of interface builder you can put in front of Pd.
I know Gripd, and it's a viable alternative in many cases. But then it doesn't provide much more than the IEMGUIs also provide in Pd, it just looks a bit better.
I was actually thinking of more "experimental" GUIs, like the things you are working on with the data structures (that somehow should become more accessible to get into as widespread use as the IEMGUIs...).
On Sat, Nov 22, 2003 at 11:21:40PM +0100, Frank Barknecht wrote:
...
But I see an area where looks are important, and that is in building interfaces for (live) performances. Here things have to be intuitive and very easy and fast to use. To achieve this is quite a bit more difficult in Pd than it should be.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
Thats what i was getting at Frank, I've opened your Pd7 and other externels the first time I used pd and said, huh, (clicking on all available boxes), say compared to Reactor where its much more intuitive.
And yes my comment is in the line that I think that our instruments should look nice, a good gui can put me in a creative frame of mind. But then again, I think that colorized syntax in xemacs looks good?!? ken
----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Barknecht" fbar@footils.org To: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2003 2:21 PM Subject: Re: the damned GUI - was:[PD] Pd in white on black and OSC
Hallo, Larry Troxler hat gesagt: // Larry Troxler wrote:
I'm kind of bewildered about this as well - to me, PD is just a tool to *create* something beautifull, namely music. It doesn't need to be
artistic
in itself.
And because using PD takes some serious left-brain thinking, I'm a bit surprised that many users care about it's graphical appearance. But
obviously
they do.
I suppose the analogy here would be that some musicians prefer their instruments to look nice, hence nice looking grand pianos, snazzy
looking
guitars, and the like.
In general I fully agree with your view, because that's pretty much the way how I use Pd.
But I see an area where looks are important, and that is in building interfaces for (live) performances. Here things have to be intuitive and very easy and fast to use. To achieve this is quite a bit more difficult in Pd than it should be.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
PD-list mailing list PD-list@iem.at http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
Hallo, Ken hat gesagt: // Ken wrote:
Thats what i was getting at Frank, I've opened your Pd7 and other externels the first time I used pd and said, huh, (clicking on all available boxes), say compared to Reactor where its much more intuitive.
Ah well, the pdx7 is a very bad example because it's a very bad patch viewed from now. But still quite okay for a first try at using Pd. Ergonomically it's a desaster. But the IEMGUI elements were not a part of Pd then.
And yes my comment is in the line that I think that our instruments should look nice, a good gui can put me in a creative frame of mind. But then again, I think that colorized syntax in xemacs looks good?!?
Syntax highlighting is a good example of how simple measures can have quite an impact. Sliders, radio buttons and toggles are the equivalent in Pd.
ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org__
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Frank Barknecht -
Ken -
Larry Troxler -
Marc Lavallée -
Miller Puckette