Hello, I am afraid it is not an adsr. ADSR only have four parameters, it also looks like envgen from ggee,
You can set the envelope to four points if you want to. I just wanted to have the option of having something more advanced than an adsr(aadddsrrr for example). I haven't tried envgen but as far as I know it's an external. This is a native pd-patch and I kinda like it that way because it's quicker to get it up and running on any platform without thinking about compiling/finding a binary etc.
what this patch will be used for?
adsr(once I get the sustain into the patch) and lfo's and maybe some sequencing.
What's a "sustain function that can loop between more than one point" ?
As I said this isn't done yet but I'm thinking of a sustain that, instead of stopping at one point, goes back and forth between two-three points. That way you can have slight dynamics in the sound when holding down a key as well.
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Hi,
I think this is a good idea. I'd use the patch for instance (-:
As for the multi-point sustain zone, I like it as well but it would need one important feature _in my opinion_: the ability not only to define the n sustain points but also to specify a different time base for the sustain zone. I'll try and explain it as clear as possible: "typical" (as long as one accepts the use of such a word in music) attack times for instance are usually located in the 5-200 ms range whereas the kind of amplitude modulation I'd like to have with such a feature (multi-point sustain looping) are more in the 0.5-2Hz (500-2000ms) range (my primary interest in this case being rather to create a smooth amplitude modulation than a "ring-modulation like" effect).
So in the case of creating a envelope GUI (let's call it envelope and even break point envelope rather than AnDnSR (-:) this is something I would consider: the ability to draw some parts of the envelope in one time range and some other in other parts. Typically A and D in the 1-1000ms range then (multi-)S and R in the 500-2000ms (in my current case).
Just exposing my thoughts and ideas. But if you implement such a thing, I'd definitely use it (-;
++
Jé
Rune Lain Knudsen a écrit :
Hello, I am afraid it is not an adsr. ADSR only have four parameters, it also looks like envgen from ggee,
You can set the envelope to four points if you want to. I just wanted to have the option of having something more advanced than an adsr(aadddsrrr for example). I haven't tried envgen but as far as I know it's an external. This is a native pd-patch and I kinda like it that way because it's quicker to get it up and running on any platform without thinking about compiling/finding a binary etc.
what this patch will be used for?
adsr(once I get the sustain into the patch) and lfo's and maybe some sequencing.
What's a "sustain function that can loop between more than one point" ?
As I said this isn't done yet but I'm thinking of a sustain that, instead of stopping at one point, goes back and forth between two-three points. That way you can have slight dynamics in the sound when holding down a key as well.
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On Sat, 13 Jan 2007 17:05:03 +0100 Jerome Tuncer columbiatwo@free.fr wrote:
attack times for instance are usually located in the 5-200 ms range whereas the kind of amplitude modulation I'd like to have with such a feature (multi-point sustain looping) are more in the 0.5-2Hz (500-2000ms) range (my primary interest in this case being rather to create a smooth amplitude modulation than a "ring-modulation like" effect).
So in the case of creating a envelope GUI (let's call it envelope and even break point envelope rather than AnDnSR (-:) this is something I would consider: the ability to draw some parts of the envelope in one time range and some other in other parts. Typically A and D in the 1-1000ms range then (multi-)S and R in the 500-2000ms (in my current case).
Just exposing my thoughts and ideas. But if you implement such a thing, I'd definitely use it (-;
Agree, I forget where I saw it but remember a synth that had (x2 x8 x32 x128) modifiers for each envelope stage. Otherwise the visual range/resolution of at least one stage is suboptimal in a typical envelope.
Rune Lain Knudsen a écrit :
You can set the envelope to four points if you want to. I just wanted to have the option of having something more advanced than an adsr(aadddsrrr for example).
Since sixty years of electronic music the need for an enveloppe generator with more than the four usual parameters has not been necessary, why would we need now an aaddsrr, what's the interest?
what this patch will be used for?
adsr(once I get the sustain into the patch) and lfo's and maybe some sequencing.
An enveloppe might be neat for drawing lfo or vco waveshapes indeed, and even excellent if the curves could have another shape than a line. It would look like the enveloppe generator of some vst intrument like crystal synth. PC.
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On 14/01/2007, at 13.17, Patco wrote:
Since sixty years of electronic music the need for an enveloppe
generator with more than the four usual parameters has not been
necessary, why would we need now an aaddsrr, what's the interest?
In the diy-synth scene people actually build that kind of envelope
generators. To make new sounds seam an good reason why. Also
envelopes of acoustic instruments aren't linear, hence multiple
envelope points gives a possibility to do a quite good approximation
(of say a logarithmic-like curve). See fx http://puredata.org/Members/
stffn/lin_env.png
Hallo, Patco hat gesagt: // Patco wrote:
Rune Lain Knudsen a écrit :
You can set the envelope to four points if you want to. I just wanted to have the option of having something more advanced than an adsr(aadddsrrr for example).
Since sixty years of electronic music the need for an enveloppe generator with more than the four usual parameters has not been necessary, why would we need now an aaddsrr, what's the interest?
Um, sorry, but that's not true: Even the early Music N saw the need to be able to define arbitrary length break point envelopes. Usually these are called "GEN" functions with a number afterwards. The ADSR so popular on commercial synths is just a simplied (some say: dumbed-down) version of a breakpoint GEN-function. And even the most popular hardware synth, the DX7, didn't have simple ADSRs but slightly more complex and powerful envelopes.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Frank Barknecht a écrit :
Hallo, Patco hat gesagt: // Patco wrote:
Rune Lain Knudsen a écrit :
You can set the envelope to four points if you want to. I just wanted to have the option of having something more advanced than an adsr(aadddsrrr for example).
Since sixty years of electronic music the need for an enveloppe generator with more than the four usual parameters has not been necessary, why would we need now an aaddsrr, what's the interest?
Um, sorry, but that's not true: Even the early Music N saw the need to be able to define arbitrary length break point envelopes. Usually these are called "GEN" functions with a number afterwards.
I've been looking a little bit for it but it's a little painfull to find something about sound generation, Csound apparently has a feature called GEN function but it looks very similar with just filling an array, right?
The ADSR so popular on commercial synths is just a simplied (some say: dumbed-down) version of a breakpoint GEN-function.
That makes sense, popular and commercial synth needed a standart and called it ADSR, but if musicians needed something more complex, why aren't there more synthetizers with this kind of feature? The shape of an enveloppe depends on what we want to do with, for example in drum boxes, the release is not necessary, even the sustain has been removed from most popular synth like the bassline.
And even the most popular hardware synth, the DX7, didn't have simple ADSRs but slightly more complex and powerful envelopes.
I am not sure about that, DX7 has the usual ADSR, and level, maybe the powerfull side is that we can edit a pitch and amplitude envelope for each operator, ciao, PC.
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Hallo, Patco hat gesagt: // Patco wrote:
I am not sure about that, DX7 has the usual ADSR, and level,
No, it has a unique envelope generator which used four pairs of "levels" and "rates" to be specified. This is more aking to a breakpoint envelope in the traditional sense, but it can be used to simulate an ADSR. Quoting the manual (pg 26, available here: http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/~bensondj/html/dx7.html):
NOTE If you are familiar with analog synthesizers that have Attack-Decay-Sustain-Release envelope genera- tors (ADSR EGs), you may recognize the line defined by R1 and L1 as the "attack" portion of the envelope. There are parallels between a conventional ADSR EGs and the DX7's EGs. However the DX7 envelopes are much more flexible than ADSR types because the DX7 offers 8 precisely programmable parameters (R1, L1, R2,L2. R3,L3, R4, L4) instead of 4 (A-D-S-R). I t ' s not really important for you to understand ADSR enve- lopes when you're programming the DX7, but if you already do and are curious about the comparison, see the envelope discussion in the Advanced Program- ming Notes section of this manual.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Frank Barknecht a écrit :
I t ' s not really important for you to understand ADSR enve- lopes when you're programming the DX7, but if you already do and are curious about the comparison, see the envelope discussion in the Advanced Program- ming Notes section of this manual.
All right, the envelopes section of http://www.maths.abdn.ac.uk/~bensondj/dx7/manuals/prgrmdx7.pdf explains well limitations of ADSR, we can't choose destination level of attack time, and same for release, but both could be fixed ( but not independently) with the level amount. thanks for enlightments, PC.
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