Awesome - thanks for the insight.
I've been a general business software developer (Visual Basic & Web Stuff primarily) for the past 10 years and thinking I don't want to spend the next 10 years doing the same.
I have a pretty good understanding of synthesis and sound manipulation (effects) and a broad overview of the ins and outs of DSP (IIR, FIR, FFT, Windowing, etc).
If there's one thing I'm above average at - it's starting from a blank slate, reading, playing, knocking my head against the wall but eventually becoming fluent and at least mildly dangerous.
DSP is an area that interests me and I thought PD & Max would be a great place to start as you have a something to start with and then can move on in terms of writing externals and ultimately write something from scratch if I decide to.
Anyone know if Audiomulch allows you to write your own "externals" - other than going the VST route.
Any of these - PD, Max/MSP, Audiomulch support something like rewire?
The audio processing question is because I have an immediate need that I'd like to fulfill but it's really where my interest lies.
Thanks again for the thoughtful answers!
John
-----Original Message----- From: derek holzer [mailto:derek@x-i.net] Sent: Wednesday, June 23, 2004 10:48 AM To: John Potter Cc: Jamie Bullock; pd-list@iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] PD for Audio Manipulation/Mangling
John Potter wrote:
Should I want to check out PD or MSP for the learning experience does one work better than the other for this sort of application?
My own evolution was from Audiomulch to Reaktor to Pure Data. I saw it as a process of "growing out" of each software's limitations and on to the next. I use PD largely for realtime manipulation of incoming audio and samples, and I can say that it is very well suited for the purpose, provided you are willing to do some work and even learn a few new things
to get there.
In terms of audio processing, MSP and PD are virtually identical. [The fcat that one is a commercial development of the other might have something to do with that.] I would say that main difference is in the level of Do-I-Yourself which comes along with PD. In MAX/MSP, there are a lot of ready mades which might get you going a little faster, but these ready-mades are also often "black-boxes" which you cannot see or change the internal workings of. On the other hand, in PD you will spend
more time developing patches from low-level objects up, but you will gain a better understanding of how they work and will be able to customize them completely for your own needs and sounds. In other words,
you won't just be fiddling with someone else's sliders.
good luck, d.
John Potter wrote:
Anyone know if Audiomulch allows you to write your own "externals" - other than going the VST route.
No. AM is closed source [="black box"], and is developed as a commercial software [eventually], so I don't think it's part of Ross Bencina's plan to open it up to anonymous developers. You'd have to go the VST route.
Any of these - PD, Max/MSP, Audiomulch support something like rewire?
This is where Linux comes in! Under Linux, you have a system called Jack-Audio-Connection-Kit, which routes audio signals between clients in the same way that ReWire does, but which is not closed and proprietary [thus expanding the possible applications which can work with it]. It is compatible with Portaudio on the Mac as well, although I haven't met anyone who has gotten JACK working there yet. But under Linux it is stable and runs like a dream!
d.
derek holzer wrote:
Any of these - PD, Max/MSP, Audiomulch support something like rewire?
This is where Linux comes in! Under Linux, you have a system called Jack-Audio-Connection-Kit, which routes audio signals between clients in the same way that ReWire does, but which is not closed and proprietary [thus expanding the possible applications which can work with it]. It is compatible with Portaudio on the Mac as well, although I haven't met anyone who has gotten JACK working there yet. But under Linux it is stable and runs like a dream!
Jack does run on OS X (at least the last time I needed it, it worked without problems) Only if you need to run ProTools it is of no use, because Digidesign is using its hardware as copy protection and therefore has its own closed box (terrible) drivers. Max does rewire (at least the upcoming 4.5 version) and can talk to ProTools that way. You can even turn max patches into Plugins which run in ProTools or any other plugin host. I still wait to see Ardour running on OS X as an alternative, because Digi desperately seeks an open source competition ;-)
I don't want to promote Max here on the PD list too much, but I am still struggling with PD and I am just more used to Max out of my history. For somebody to dive in newly, PD might be the better choice if you accept the installation hassle and the knowledge overhead necessary for dealing with more OS specific problems in exchange for a free software solution. Both share a great and supporting community and should get you going.
Stefan
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Hi John,
John Potter wrote:
Awesome - thanks for the insight.
Pd is the best of all of them.
(This is a pd-list, so this has to be said at least once. ;) But I also do believe it in general, although of course Pd has its own bag of problems.)
DSP is an area that interests me and I thought PD & Max would be a great place to start as you have a something to start with and then can move on in terms of writing externals and ultimately write something from scratch if I decide to.
I would suggest you start to use Pd for a while. No one here can tell you what you will like, so actually using one of these software packages is your best bet to find out what will fit. Pd doesn't cost anything, the base package is rather easy to install. You could get evaluation packages of the other tools.
I tried a lot of software before settling on Pd for more or less good.
Any of these - PD, Max/MSP, Audiomulch support something like rewire?
Rewire is only available for commercial software, so no, Pd or Suppercollider will never support it. As Derek pointed out, Jack is a superior solution anyways. But doesn't run ond Windows, though, only Linux and OS-X (and maybe some other *nixes)
-
derek holzer -
Frank Barknecht -
John Potter -
Stefan Tiedje