hi,
this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1
after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached image).
this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets very irritating on the eye. is there a specific reason for this change ? can it be customized ?
best
oliver
2018-03-15 8:24 GMT-03:00 oliver oliver@klingt.org:
hi,
this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1
after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached image).
this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets very irritating on the eye.
how so? what do you mean?
hi, this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1 after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached image). this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets very irritating on the eye.how so? what do you mean?
well, like you can see on the attached .jpg, it's not that big a difference in a small patch like the [bang] helppatch.
but it makes a lot more "black bars" in any patch window now, which is ugly to watch and quite confusing when patches have lots of objects and connections (which they sometimes do, no matter how well tied up ...)
what's more: also the main windows font "courier" seems to look a little different than before (especially visible on bigger fontsizes like 16). which i wouldn't mind that much, but the bigger inlet sizes are hard on my eye.
in any case, i didn't find anything on the list concerning this issue, so:
has really nobody else experienced this ? is this just happening on my machine ? or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
as i said: this change was introduced in PD 0.48.1 (windows 7)
thanks for any clarifications
oliver
Hey Oliver, remember that you can also "stretch" objects, that might be helpful.
cheers
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 2:22 PM, oliver oliver@klingt.org wrote:
hi,this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1 after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached image). this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets very irritating on the eye.how so? what do you mean?
well, like you can see on the attached .jpg, it's not that big a difference in a small patch like the [bang] helppatch.
but it makes a lot more "black bars" in any patch window now, which is ugly to watch and quite confusing when patches have lots of objects and connections (which they sometimes do, no matter how well tied up ...)
what's more: also the main windows font "courier" seems to look a little different than before (especially visible on bigger fontsizes like 16). which i wouldn't mind that much, but the bigger inlet sizes are hard on my eye.
in any case, i didn't find anything on the list concerning this issue, so:
has really nobody else experienced this ? is this just happening on my machine ? or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
as i said: this change was introduced in PD 0.48.1 (windows 7)
thanks for any clarifications
oliver
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
I had noticed this too, and also find it mildly irritating.
I think that the oversized outlets existed on Windows before 0.48. ________________________________ From: Pd-list pd-list-bounces@lists.iem.at on behalf of José Rafael Subía Valdez jsubiavaldez@gmail.com Sent: 15 March 2018 14:25 To: oliver Cc: pd-list@mail.iem.at Subject: Re: [PD] bigger inlet/outlet size in 0.48.1 ...
Hey Oliver, remember that you can also "stretch" objects, that might be helpful.
cheers
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 2:22 PM, oliver <oliver@klingt.orgmailto:oliver@klingt.org> wrote:
hi,
this is on windows 7 / 64bit, PD 0.48.1
after updating from 0.48.0 to 0.48.1, the thickness of all object
and message inlets/outlets has increased by 1 pixel (see attached
image).
this may not sound like much, but when opening heavy patches it gets
very irritating on the eye.
how so? what do you mean?
well, like you can see on the attached .jpg, it's not that big a difference in a small patch like the [bang] helppatch.
but it makes a lot more "black bars" in any patch window now, which is ugly to watch and quite confusing when patches have lots of objects and connections (which they sometimes do, no matter how well tied up ...)
what's more: also the main windows font "courier" seems to look a little different than before (especially visible on bigger fontsizes like 16). which i wouldn't mind that much, but the bigger inlet sizes are hard on my eye.
in any case, i didn't find anything on the list concerning this issue, so:
has really nobody else experienced this ? is this just happening on my machine ? or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
as i said: this change was introduced in PD 0.48.1 (windows 7)
thanks for any clarifications
oliver
Pd-list@lists.iem.atmailto:Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-- José Rafael Subía Valdez www.jrsv.nethttp://www.jrsv.net
Liam Goodacre wrote:
I had noticed this too, and also find it mildly irritating.
I think that the oversized outlets existed on Windows before 0.48.
i joined PD vanilla with version 0.46 and i'm pretty sure they didn't. at least not on my machine(s).
(my screenshots show the difference between 0.48.0 and 0.48.1 pretty clear.)
why is such a change introduced between two consecutive builds of the same release ?
if memory serves, i only noticed those big inlets before in pd-extended and purrdata.
but this is vanilla and i don't see any good reason to change it's look this way. or is this Tcl/Tk related ?
best
oliver
the look of Pd has changed a bit since 0.48.1 to finally get uniform rendering across systems (which is a very good thing!).
BTW, the default font is now DejaVu Sans Mono.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. März 2018 um 16:10 Uhr Von: oliver oliver@klingt.org An: "pd-list@mail.iem.at" pd-list@mail.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] bigger inlet/outlet size in 0.48.1 ...
Liam Goodacre wrote:
I had noticed this too, and also find it mildly irritating.
I think that the oversized outlets existed on Windows before 0.48.
i joined PD vanilla with version 0.46 and i'm pretty sure they didn't. at least not on my machine(s).
(my screenshots show the difference between 0.48.0 and 0.48.1 pretty clear.)
why is such a change introduced between two consecutive builds of the same release ?
if memory serves, i only noticed those big inlets before in pd-extended and purrdata.
but this is vanilla and i don't see any good reason to change it's look this way. or is this Tcl/Tk related ?
best
oliver
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
moreover, I think Dan took inlet/outlet's height back from pd-extended's one, allowing (in a possible future) to draw control/signal differently, as it was on pd-extended: "empty" signal inlet/outlet.
Antoine Rousseau http://www.metalu.net http://metalu.net __ http://www.metaluachahuter.com/ http://www.metaluachahuter.com/compagnies/al1-ant1/
2018-03-15 16:55 GMT+01:00 Christof Ressi christof.ressi@gmx.at:
the look of Pd has changed a bit since 0.48.1 to finally get uniform rendering across systems (which is a very good thing!).
BTW, the default font is now DejaVu Sans Mono.
Gesendet: Donnerstag, 15. März 2018 um 16:10 Uhr Von: oliver oliver@klingt.org An: "pd-list@mail.iem.at" pd-list@mail.iem.at Betreff: Re: [PD] bigger inlet/outlet size in 0.48.1 ...
Liam Goodacre wrote:
I had noticed this too, and also find it mildly irritating.
I think that the oversized outlets existed on Windows before 0.48.
i joined PD vanilla with version 0.46 and i'm pretty sure they didn't. at least not on my machine(s).
(my screenshots show the difference between 0.48.0 and 0.48.1 pretty clear.)
why is such a change introduced between two consecutive builds of the same release ?
if memory serves, i only noticed those big inlets before in pd-extended and purrdata.
but this is vanilla and i don't see any good reason to change it's look this way. or is this Tcl/Tk related ?
best
oliver
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/
listinfo/pd-list
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
Antoine Rousseau wrote:
moreover, I think Dan took inlet/outlet's height back from pd-extended's one, allowing (in a possible future) to draw control/signal differently, as it was on pd-extended: "empty" signal inlet/outlet.
yeah, definitely looks very "extended-ish"
even if "uniform rendering across systems" is definitely a worthy goal, are the bigger inlets really unavoidable ?
no chance to at least hack a personal version of a tcl file to make them thin again ?
i for one like the slimmer inlets waaaaay better.
(in fact the fat ones where a reason i intuitively rejected pdx/purrdata and stayed with vanilla. i just didn't like the bloated look. but here we are ...)
cheers anyway
oliver
oliver oliver@klingt.org writes:
even if "uniform rendering across systems" is definitely a worthy goal, are the bigger inlets really unavoidable ?
no chance to at least hack a personal version of a tcl file to make them thin again ?
i for one like the slimmer inlets waaaaay better.
I suppose I'm in the minority in the proceedings of this thread,... but I actually like the thick inlets/outlets =) I've never had the best eyesight (as evidenced by my ever-growing thickness of glasses lenses over my lifetime) so I like things big and high-contrasty (if anything, I could use another pixel-width thickness =P).
I suppose to due my differing opinion, I would +1 the option to change inlet/outlet thicknesses, perhaps via TCL or .pdsettings.
Derek
Derek Kwan www.derekxkwan.com
Derek Kwan derek.x.kwan@gmail.com writes:
oliver oliver@klingt.org writes:
even if "uniform rendering across systems" is definitely a worthy goal, are the bigger inlets really unavoidable ?
no chance to at least hack a personal version of a tcl file to make them thin again ?
i for one like the slimmer inlets waaaaay better.
I suppose I'm in the minority in the proceedings of this thread,... but I actually like the thick inlets/outlets =) I've never had the best eyesight (as evidenced by my ever-growing thickness of glasses lenses over my lifetime) so I like things big and high-contrasty (if anything, I could use another pixel-width thickness =P).
I suppose to due my differing opinion, I would +1 the option to change inlet/outlet thicknesses, perhaps via TCL or .pdsettings.
Derek
Sorry for the double posting in quick succession, but I've just noticed that although these objects have the thicker inlets/outlets:
objects number boxes symbol boxes message boxes
The following have the original THINNER inlets/outlets (perhaps due to them being more "fullblown GUI elements") : number2 boxes radios sliders bangs toggles VU meters
To sum up, everything in the first subdivision of the "Put" menu (besides comments which don't have inlets/outlets) have the thicker inlets/outlets, everything in the second subdivision has the smaller ones. Which is a bit inconsistent. Personally, I have a really hard time seeing those inlets/outlets in that second list, but from this thread, there are differing opinions to be had on the subject.
Derek
Derek Kwan www.derekxkwan.com
On 16/03/18 00:30, Derek Kwan wrote:
Derek Kwanderek.x.kwan@gmail.com writes:
oliveroliver@klingt.org writes:
even if "uniform rendering across systems" is definitely a worthy goal, are the bigger inlets really unavoidable ?
no chance to at least hack a personal version of a tcl file to make them thin again ?
i for one like the slimmer inlets waaaaay better.
I suppose I'm in the minority in the proceedings of this thread,... but I actually like the thick inlets/outlets =) I've never had the best eyesight (as evidenced by my ever-growing thickness of glasses lenses over my lifetime) so I like things big and high-contrasty (if anything, I could use another pixel-width thickness =P).
I actually agree with you, so not sure what percentage of the Pd Vanilla population that makes us :)
I suppose to due my differing opinion, I would +1 the option to change inlet/outlet thicknesses, perhaps via TCL or .pdsettings.
I think that as much as I have always thought Pd's (vanilla) spartan graphics are a feature which lets you concentrate on the dataflow an forces you to tidy up at a certain point (plus gets you creative with certain situations), *some* visual features should be (easily) configurable including:
- font type
- base font size (although there is a problem with other people's
patches there..))
- background and foreground colour
- inlet/outlet thickness
- signal vs message inlet/outlet colour
- ...
Ideally one day in the future the graphical part of Pd patches will be like an SVG (vector graphics)... Imagine patching in something like Inkscape and having a potentially "infinite" size canvas.... (But then maybe I wonder if that would lead to messier patches) :D
... The following have the original THINNER inlets/outlets (perhaps due to them being more "fullblown GUI elements") : number2 boxes radios sliders bangs toggles VU meters To sum up, everything in the first subdivision of the "Put" menu (besides comments which don't have inlets/outlets) have the thicker inlets/outlets, everything in the second subdivision has the smaller ones. Which is a bit inconsistent. Personally, I have a really hard time seeing those inlets/outlets in that second list, but from this thread, there are differing opinions to be had on the subject.
I can confirm this on Linux. One nice recent feature is the 'zoom' functionality, which makes everything much more readable especially on higher resolution screens. :)
Lorenzo.
What's hard on my eyes so bad that hurts down to my soul is the *BOLD* font as a default, specially for texts like in this image you sent. But I really can't see/feel any issue with this change.
2018-03-15 11:22 GMT-03:00 oliver oliver@klingt.org:
has really nobody else experienced this ?
yup
is this just happening on my machine ?
nope
or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
yup
cheers
I'm unaware inlet/outlets grew... I'll have a look and see what's up. I don't think there's any reason for them to have chanced.
cheers Miller
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 02:15:03PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
What's hard on my eyes so bad that hurts down to my soul is the *BOLD* font as a default, specially for texts like in this image you sent. But I really can't see/feel any issue with this change.
2018-03-15 11:22 GMT-03:00 oliver oliver@klingt.org:
has really nobody else experienced this ?
yup
is this just happening on my machine ?
nope
or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
yup
cheers
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
It got in with this merged Pull Request https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/pull/227
2018-03-15 16:10 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu:
I'm unaware inlet/outlets grew... I'll have a look and see what's up. I don't think there's any reason for them to have chanced.
cheers Miller
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 02:15:03PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
What's hard on my eyes so bad that hurts down to my soul is the *BOLD*
font
as a default, specially for texts like in this image you sent. But I
really
can't see/feel any issue with this change.
2018-03-15 11:22 GMT-03:00 oliver oliver@klingt.org:
has really nobody else experienced this ?
yup
is this just happening on my machine ?
nope
or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
yup
cheers
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/
listinfo/pd-list
my problem with the update, as expressed in that pull request discussion, is that letters like "g", "p", "y" have less room and kinda touch outlets. I guess in order to avoid it we'd need the object to have another pixel of room at the bottom.
But other than that, I like the new design
2018-03-15 16:39 GMT-03:00 Alexandre Torres Porres porres@gmail.com:
It got in with this merged Pull Request https://github.com/ pure-data/pure-data/pull/227
2018-03-15 16:10 GMT-03:00 Miller Puckette msp@ucsd.edu:
I'm unaware inlet/outlets grew... I'll have a look and see what's up. I don't think there's any reason for them to have chanced.
cheers Miller
On Thu, Mar 15, 2018 at 02:15:03PM -0300, Alexandre Torres Porres wrote:
What's hard on my eyes so bad that hurts down to my soul is the *BOLD*
font
as a default, specially for texts like in this image you sent. But I
really
can't see/feel any issue with this change.
2018-03-15 11:22 GMT-03:00 oliver oliver@klingt.org:
has really nobody else experienced this ?
yup
is this just happening on my machine ?
nope
or is this a supposed to be a "new PD look" ?
yup
cheers
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/li
stinfo/pd-list
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Alexandre Torres Porres -
Antoine Rousseau -
Christof Ressi -
Derek Kwan -
José Rafael Subía Valdez -
Liam Goodacre -
Lorenzo Sutton -
Miller Puckette -
oliver