Thought I'd just mention this as it seems to be on a similar topic.
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime library.
https://github.com/joewhite4/Zeng
It's not fully functional yet but you can open patches and mess around with objects.
Just thought it might be of interest.
Cheers, Joe
Message: 3 Date: Fri, 26 Aug 2011 02:19:20 +0200 From: Andr?s Mur?nyi muranyia@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets To: pd-list pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: <CAJtGUK6F3R=Ev+iuvn-82gkux05-fMxTUan2+K5w4c2z5BSy=Q@mail.gmail.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
Yeah and afaiu this is exactly the job that HC just started (see his announcement below). Yvan: in my simple understanding it goes like this: 1. getting rid of tcl-specific code in pd c core 2. minimizing the communication between the core and the gui (3. defining the api/protocol?) 4. anyone can go make all sorts of guis for pd... at this point or later on vanilla may or may not switch from tcl - imho it's to be decided when we're there
Andras
On Fri, Aug 26, 2011 at 01:39, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
The pd/pd-gui divide is a little misleading-- there are lots of places in the c code where there are sys_gui and sys_vgui calls with tcl in them,
plus
c code that probably assumes tcl is being used on the gui side.
You'll either need to write a wrapper for those calls, or modify a lot of
c
code and basically make a fork (iemguis, canvas stuff, etc.)
But even if you write a wrapper, there are still issues that will need to be dealt with on the c side to minimize the number of messages passing
back
and forth between pd and gui. For example, there is one call per xlet to the gui when an object gets instantiated/vis'd, plus drawing the border
and
text, rather than one call per object (and letting the gui deal with
where
to draw xlets, box width, font, etc.).
-Jonathan
*From:* yvan volochine yvan.pd@gmail.com
*To:* Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at *Cc:* Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com; pd-dev List pd-dev@iem.at *Sent:* Thursday, August 25, 2011 6:18 PM *Subject:* Re: [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On 08/17/2011 08:54 PM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I've started a private git branch of tkwidgets that I intent to push once I get somewhere with it. The idea is to try out a new idea for how GUI objects can work. Basically, I think I can make it so that Tcl handles more of the interaction with
the
user, minimizing on pd-gui <--> pd communications, and making it easier to write GUI objects. Its not trivial to do, but should be doable.
hiho
sorry for bumping in but what about giving up tcl-tk and go on with something more "modern" (? la Qt), with a decent OO interface ?
I might miss the obvious as I'm new here but what about rewriting pd GUI
in
Qt ? wouldn't it make more sense than spending time hacking on and on tcl-tk code ?
my 0.001$ _y
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime library.
ZenGarden is not a Pd runtime library, even though it's advertised like that.
ZenGarden thinks that $2 is for getting the first element of a list, and it also thinks that bang is an atomtype.
It also fails to give any error message for any unrecognised selector («no method for...»).
And then there are other problems.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca To: Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com Cc: yvan.pd@gmail.com; Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at; Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com; pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 3:48 PM Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime
library.
ZenGarden is not a Pd runtime library, even though it's advertised like that.
ZenGarden thinks that $2 is for getting the first element of a list, and it also thinks that bang is an atomtype.
So in ZenGarden, [1 2 3( | [$2( | [print]
Gives you "1"? If so, what does $1 expand to-- the selector "float"?
It also fails to give any error message for any unrecognised selector («no method for...»).
And then there are other problems.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
So in ZenGarden, [1 2 3( | [$2( | [print] Gives you "1"?
I believe that this was the case, but if it's not, then there's a problem of that kind that you will hit quickly, as soon as you try to do something nontrivial.
If so, what does $1 expand to-- the selector "float"?
In that case, it would be "list" no ? unless in that case, "list" doesn't exist, and then it would work like pd for lists, but unlike pd for other anythings... I don't recall.
However, I do recall that it has no concept of selector whatsoever... and that empty list doesn't stand for bang, as bang is an atomtype, and so, 'bang' (and 'close', and 'loadbang', etc) is a bigger message than the empty list is, unlike in pd.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca To: Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com Cc: Joe White white.joe4@gmail.com; "yvan.pd@gmail.com" yvan.pd@gmail.com; Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at; pd-list pd-list@iem.at Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2011 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
So in ZenGarden, [1 2 3( | [$2( | [print] Gives you "1"?
I believe that this was the case, but if it's not, then there's a problem of that kind that you will hit quickly, as soon as you try to do something nontrivial.
If so, what does $1 expand to-- the selector "float"?
In that case, it would be "list" no ?
My mistake. Yes, it would be "list".
unless in that case, "list" doesn't exist, and then it would work like pd for lists, but unlike pd for other anythings... I don't recall.
However, I do recall that it has no concept of selector whatsoever... and that empty list doesn't stand for bang, as bang is an atomtype, and so, 'bang' (and 'close', and 'loadbang', etc) is a bigger message than the empty list is, unlike in pd.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
To be honest I don't care.
You can get into semantics all you like but it's a library that can run Pd patches.
If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring them up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved.
I'm just looking to create a GUI that resolves many usability issues (for me anyway) when constructing Pd patches. Don't get me wrong, I love Pd and use it everyday. But I feel more work could be done on workflow to improve productivity. If other people find that useful then great!
On 27 August 2011 20:48, Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Fri, 26 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
For fun I was making a GUI interface for OSX with ZenGarden, a Pd runtime
library.
ZenGarden is not a Pd runtime library, even though it's advertised like that.
ZenGarden thinks that $2 is for getting the first element of a list, and it also thinks that bang is an atomtype.
It also fails to give any error message for any unrecognised selector («no method for...»).
And then there are other problems.
______________________________**______________________________** ___________ | Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
To be honest I don't care.
Ah. Nevermind then.
If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring them up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved.
No, because those issues were created on purpose.
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't
that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake? Or do you
suggest the errors were placed there as obstacles with malice
aforethought?
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 11:34:18 -0400 (EDT)
Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Joe White wrote:
If there are issues with ZenGarden then wouldn't it make sense to bring them up with the developer? It's not like they couldn't be resolved.
No, because those issues were created on purpose.
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake?
Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes first, and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the solutions. When the idea of «cleaner design than vanilla's» is to use a big if else if else if else if else if else if instead of the constructor table and instead of every method table, does it make it look like you or I has any business trying to change the mind of the author, and does that look easier than (!!!) submitting patches to Miller ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
----- Original Message -----
From: Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca To: Andy Farnell padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk Cc: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2011 1:04 PM Subject: Re: [PD] [PD-dev] tkwidgets
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that
same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake?
Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes first, and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the solutions. When the idea of «cleaner design than vanilla's» is to use a big if else if else if else if else if else if instead of the constructor table and instead of every method table, does it make it look like you or I has any business trying to change the mind of the author, and does that look easier than (!!!) submitting patches to Miller ?
_Submitting_ patches to Miller is easy.
-Jonathan
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
I think reasonable suggestions might be welcome.
Some say the sulphur fumes, screams and maniacal laughter emanating from Martin and Joe's subterranean laboratory beneath the opera house catacombs is too intimidating. But I've heard that mortals making offerings have been spared.
Occasionally.
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake?
Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes first, and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the solutions. When the idea of «cleaner design than vanilla's» is to use a big if else if else if else if else if else if instead of the constructor table and instead of every method table, does it make it look like you or I has any business trying to change the mind of the author, and does that look easier than (!!!) submitting patches to Miller ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
Haha, I'll pretend I understand this Andy :)
On 28 August 2011 18:29, Andy Farnell padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
I think reasonable suggestions might be welcome.
Some say the sulphur fumes, screams and maniacal laughter emanating from Martin and Joe's subterranean laboratory beneath the opera house catacombs is too intimidating. But I've heard that mortals making offerings have been spared.
Occasionally.
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011 13:04:44 -0400 (EDT) Mathieu Bouchard matju@artengine.ca wrote:
On Sun, 28 Aug 2011, Andy Farnell wrote:
If the developer exhibits a capacity for purposefulness, couldn't that same a sense of purpose be used to undo a mistake?
Well, the developer would have to think of those things as mistakes
first,
and also, to think of vanilla's ways as being the solutions. When the
idea
of «cleaner design than vanilla's» is to use a big if else if else if
else
if else if else if instead of the constructor table and instead of every method table, does it make it look like you or I has any business trying to change the mind of the author, and does that look easier than (!!!) submitting patches to Miller ?
| Mathieu Bouchard ---- tél: +1.514.383.3801 ---- Villeray, Montréal, QC
-- Andy Farnell padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
-
Andy Farnell -
Joe White -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Mathieu Bouchard