Hi
Recently, a few models of so called ultrabooks with comparatively high display resolution (up to 3200x1800px) are available, even with affordable prices. While the specs sound teasing, I wonder how Pd is going to behave on those. I'm especially interested in the situation on linux.
This might be rather a Tk question, but it is possible to scale all Pd graphics evenly, so that the appearance will still be comfortable and all menu and patch fonts will readable? Setting the font size in patches won't really help as this scales only the boxes and there content, but not the menus, the iemguis and also not the distance between boxes.
Is someone with a hi-res display stuck with lowering the resolution when the goal is to do some patching?
Roman
FWIW, recently there has been a fair amount of work in pd-l2ork with the new tkpath backend to allow for this. Currently we are able to scale everything but the text which requires development of a new widget. Once that is done the canvas will be completely scalable independently of font sizes. This, however, does not address the menus... On Jan 9, 2014 5:56 PM, "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
Recently, a few models of so called ultrabooks with comparatively high display resolution (up to 3200x1800px) are available, even with affordable prices. While the specs sound teasing, I wonder how Pd is going to behave on those. I'm especially interested in the situation on linux.
This might be rather a Tk question, but it is possible to scale all Pd graphics evenly, so that the appearance will still be comfortable and all menu and patch fonts will readable? Setting the font size in patches won't really help as this scales only the boxes and there content, but not the menus, the iemguis and also not the distance between boxes.
Is someone with a hi-res display stuck with lowering the resolution when the goal is to do some patching?
Roman
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Hi Ico
That sounds awesome and like a lot of work. If this really means it will be possible to work on hi-res displays as comfortably as on older setups, this will be a huge advantage of pd-l2ork.
Is that something that relies on other pd-l2ork specific changes or could that be easily back-ported to Pd?
Roman
On Don, 2014-01-09 at 18:16 -0500, Ivica Bukvic wrote:
FWIW, recently there has been a fair amount of work in pd-l2ork with the new tkpath backend to allow for this. Currently we are able to scale everything but the text which requires development of a new widget. Once that is done the canvas will be completely scalable independently of font sizes. This, however, does not address the menus...
On Jan 9, 2014 5:56 PM, "Roman Haefeli" reduzent@gmail.com wrote: Hi
Recently, a few models of so called ultrabooks with comparatively high display resolution (up to 3200x1800px) are available, even with affordable prices. While the specs sound teasing, I wonder how Pd is going to behave on those. I'm especially interested in the situation on linux. This might be rather a Tk question, but it is possible to scale all Pd graphics evenly, so that the appearance will still be comfortable and all menu and patch fonts will readable? Setting the font size in patches won't really help as this scales only the boxes and there content, but not the menus, the iemguis and also not the distance between boxes. Is someone with a hi-res display stuck with lowering the resolution when the goal is to do some patching? Roman _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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In Pd Vanilla and possibly Pd-l2ork, tk menus and widgets should "do the right thing" because of something called tk scaling: http://wiki.tcl.tk/8484
In Pd-extended, "tk scaling" is hard-coded to "1" in pd-gui.tcl, but if you remove that line things should scale up accordingly. (Or reveal bugs in tk if things look wacky as a result.)
You won't be able to scale iemgui sizes in any flavor of Pd. They are specified in pixel units. There is a canvas "scale" subcommand but the catch is that text items (i.e., most of the content of a patch) doesn't actually get scaled. Worse, tk canvas seems only to support integer font sizes, making it burdensome to try to use canvas scaling and manually tweak the font sizes to match. (I think Pd-l2ork currently does the reverse-- you choose a different font size and it picks a corresponding scaling factor, though I don't know if it actually uses the "scale" subcommand or not.)
So burdensome is scaling text on a tk canvas that someone just decided to make their own mono-spaced vector font in tcl/tk using canvas curves, demo'd here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3sz_KRdRmY
In Pd-l2ork, canvas zooming is essentially one very tricky step away. It has a scalable canvas text item called "ptext", but unlike the normal text item it doesn't have editing features (i.e., showing the insertion caret, highlighting text, etc.). So someone would have to code that up manually. But once that is done you could scale the entire canvas, or even rotate/skew it if you're into that kind of thing. :)
Btw-- the potential use case you mention shows the weakness of using images in patches. For example, if you made a button that toggled between two png images when clicked, that button would look blurry when you scale the patch up.
-Jonathan
On Thursday, January 9, 2014 5:59 PM, Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com wrote:
Hi
Recently, a few models of so called ultrabooks with comparatively high display resolution (up to 3200x1800px) are available, even with affordable prices. While the specs sound teasing, I wonder how Pd is going to behave on those. I'm especially interested in the situation on linux.
This might be rather a Tk question, but it is possible to scale all Pd graphics evenly, so that the appearance will still be comfortable and all menu and patch fonts will readable? Setting the font size in patches won't really help as this scales only the boxes and there content, but not the menus, the iemguis and also not the distance between boxes.
Is someone with a hi-res display stuck with lowering the resolution when the goal is to do some patching?
Roman
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Don, 2014-01-09 at 15:46 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
In Pd Vanilla and possibly Pd-l2ork, tk menus and widgets should "do the right thing" because of something called tk scaling: http://wiki.tcl.tk/8484 In Pd-extended, "tk scaling" is hard-coded to "1" in pd-gui.tcl, but if you remove that line things should scale up accordingly. (Or reveal bugs in tk if things look wacky as a result.)
Actually, in my version of Pd (0.45-4 from git tag, 0.45.0 in Pd's help), 'tk scaling 1' is commented out. Uncommenting it doesn't change anything in Pd. Also changing it to whatever value doesn't show any effect.
If I understand the documentation correctly, a tcl/tk pogrammer should retrieve the display width+height and pixel resolution and calculate the proper tk scaling, right?
You won't be able to scale iemgui sizes in any flavor of Pd. They are specified in pixel units. There is a canvas "scale" subcommand but the catch is that text items (i.e., most of the content of a patch) doesn't actually get scaled. Worse, tk canvas seems only to support integer font sizes, making it burdensome to try to use canvas scaling and manually tweak the font sizes to match. (I think Pd-l2ork currently does the reverse-- you choose a different font size and it picks a corresponding scaling factor, though I don't know if it actually uses the "scale" subcommand or not.)
So burdensome is scaling text on a tk canvas that someone just decided to make their own mono-spaced vector font in tcl/tk using canvas curves, demo'd here:
Why not use that font in Pd? It would make Pd look the same on every platform, wouldn't it? Or does that have other drawbacks?
I like the video. Had to watch it to the end. It amazes me how the poster obviously finds never-ending pleasure in playing with that feature while listening to good music and humming along happily. It seems like a zen kind of thing ;-)
Roman
On 01/14/2014 07:01 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:
On Don, 2014-01-09 at 15:46 -0800, Jonathan Wilkes wrote:
In Pd Vanilla and possibly Pd-l2ork, tk menus and widgets should "do the right thing" because of something called tk scaling: http://wiki.tcl.tk/8484 In Pd-extended, "tk scaling" is hard-coded to "1" in pd-gui.tcl, but if you remove that line things should scale up accordingly. (Or reveal bugs in tk if things look wacky as a result.)
Actually, in my version of Pd (0.45-4 from git tag, 0.45.0 in Pd's help), 'tk scaling 1' is commented out. Uncommenting it doesn't change anything in Pd. Also changing it to whatever value doesn't show any effect.
If I understand the documentation correctly, a tcl/tk pogrammer should retrieve the display width+height and pixel resolution and calculate the proper tk scaling, right?
No, it's supposed to come up with its own scaling factor when Pd is started. It would affect widgets like comboboxes and presumably the menus, as well as the size of dialog boxes and everything else that doesn't have its dimensions specified in fixed pixel sizes.
It should not affect anything within the canvas, as the boxes, items, and text are specified with pixel sizes.
You should be able to type: pdtk_post "[tk scaling]\n"
in the tcl prompt (toggle it from the "Help" menu) and see what value tcl/tk is giving you. Change your screen resolution and you will see it change.
Whether the number that's chosen is sane or actually works as advertised is another matter.
-Jonathan
You won't be able to scale iemgui sizes in any flavor of Pd. They are specified in pixel units. There is a canvas "scale" subcommand but the catch is that text items (i.e., most of the content of a patch) doesn't actually get scaled. Worse, tk canvas seems only to support integer font sizes, making it burdensome to try to use canvas scaling and manually tweak the font sizes to match. (I think Pd-l2ork currently does the reverse-- you choose a different font size and it picks a corresponding scaling factor, though I don't know if it actually uses the "scale" subcommand or not.)
So burdensome is scaling text on a tk canvas that someone just decided to make their own mono-spaced vector font in tcl/tk using canvas curves, demo'd here:
Why not use that font in Pd? It would make Pd look the same on every platform, wouldn't it? Or does that have other drawbacks?
I like the video. Had to watch it to the end. It amazes me how the poster obviously finds never-ending pleasure in playing with that feature while listening to good music and humming along happily. It seems like a zen kind of thing ;-)
Roman
Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
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Ivica Bukvic -
Jonathan Wilkes -
Roman Haefeli