I'm not an expert in sound. You have to ask to other people on the
list for this problem.
I only use Pd with simple sound synthesis in my wind chime example.
Have a look to Andy's website, it could help :
http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/
This one seems nice for you :
http://www.obiwannabe.co.uk/sounds/effect-elastic-collisions.mp3
I can help with GEM and PMPD.
++
Jack
Le 9 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit :
Hey Jack,
That's cool with me. Out of curiosity, what did you use for the sound generation of your chimes, samples or code - csound/pd/a.n.other?
Jb
-----Original Message----- From: Jack [mailto:jack@rybn.org] Sent: 09 August 2008 13:16 To: Julian Brooks Cc: pd-list Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
Le 8 août 08 à 14:46, Julian Brooks a écrit :
Hi Jack,
Well I was surprised that someone else hadn't tried it already, to be honest.
Congratulations, respect, and thanks for showing me that it is indeed possible.
If you don't mind I would like to be able to email you with problems that I think you can help/give advise for.
I think the better way is to post on the Pd list because i'm not always available to answer (lot of work sometimes) and a lot of people are good users of this programming language. The list exists for this sort of problem ;) You have a lot of time to realize your patch, i think after 12 months you will have a good patch for your wind chime. All you need is to know PD/GEM/PMPD. I will be happy to help you and to answer to you on the list like a lot of other people. ++
Jack
Best wishes,
Jb
-----Original Message----- From: pd-list-bounces@iem.at [mailto:pd-list-bounces@iem.at] On Behalf Of Jack Sent: 08 August 2008 12:38 To: cyrille henry Cc: pd-list@iem.at; Mark Sexton Subject: Re: [PD] physical modelling/general pd
Hello Julian, I have done a wind chime there is 2-3 years ago with PD/GEM/PMPD. I used PHP to get on the web the value of direction and force of wind in differents cities in Europe. Here a link for a video without sound (i remove it from the export) : http://djrayban2.free.fr/Movie/windChime.mov ++
Jack
Le 8 août 08 à 12:16, cyrille henry a écrit :
hello,
Mark Sexton a écrit :
Hi Julian Building a physical model of a wind chime might be easier than you think, if you use modal or banded waveguide approaches to physical modelling rather than the brute force approach of pmpd.
pmpd aim to model the movement, not the sound. the hamer and the tube of a simple wind chime could be modeled with about 10 masses. To create a physical model of the sound is very different. but you need both to model the wind chime.
Cyrille
If you think of the wind chimes should as stiff bars, banded waveguides would be ideal and are much more computationally efficient to implement than brute force approaches: a resonant filter and delay per mode you want to synthesis. I'd recommend perhaps starting with a simple modal implementation using filters and build up from there. This paper gives a good introduction: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/~kvdoel/publications/modalpaper.pdf
If you're not familiar with modal synthesis and banded waveguides there's plenty of information online and Perry Cook's book gives a good overview of a range of approaches to modelling. http://www.cs.princeton.edu/~prc/AKPetersBook.htm
Some starting hints if you want to go down this route:
- Create an impulse: a buffer of noise or single sample impulse
- Feed this into perhaps 5 band pass IIR filters with a very
narrow Q, these will provide your resonant modes for each chime. 3. The frequencies of these filters will probably be non-integer multiples of the fundamental, eventually you can get these by analysing an actual wind chime, but if you wanted to build a proof of concept now then these are typical modes of an aluminium bar (you can find further modal frequency ratios in the Csound manual): [1, 2.756, 5.423, 8.988, 13.448, 18.680] 4. Scale the outputs of each of the resonant filters as appropriate, this should be straight forward once you've done an audio analysis of your wind chime.
At this point you have a simple resonating model of a wind chime.
- Perhaps replace the impulse: you can remove the resonant
components of your wind chime recording and this will leave you with the original noise impulse. Using this to trigger your model should help improve realism. 6. Create a banded waveguide version, by adding feedback delays for each mode. (have a read of this paper and a look at Fig. 4): http://soundlab.cs.princeton.edu/publications/1999_icmc_bar.pdf
There's a few further tweaks and improvements that can be done, but something along these lines should give a good result, be fairly easy to implement and run more efficiently than brute force.
Happy to chat more on or off list on the physical model side or algorithmic composition side, but you may find it easier than you thought once you get going.
All the best
Mark Sexton Senior Lecturer MSc Computational Sound University of Portsmouth
Message: 2 Date: Thu, 7 Aug 2008 12:30:51 +0100 From: "Julian Brooks" julian.brooks@virgin.net Subject: [PD] physical modelling/general pd - mentor/tuition
sought (money offered) To: pd-list@iem.at Message-ID: <000001c8f881$0d514a40$27f3dec0$@brooks@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"Hi all,
I have a 12 month project as part of a masters degree, where I wish to build a physical model of a wind chime. I then want to use the interface to play some of my indeterminate compositions. I was going to attempt it for my undergraduate degree but realised that it was far too complex for the available time that I had then.
I have been using pd for a few years now, list lurking, working through basic examples, building simple tools, using other peoples patches etc. But this is too complex for me to do on my own. At my uni there isn't anyone with better skills than me and I don't know of any local fellow patchers.
Now as a musician, when I need to up my skills, I will look to find some lessons when I have got as far as I can on my own.
So here goes...
Is there anyone with an hour a week to spare who can offer some mentoring/tuition for what we can deem to be the 'going rate'. I am more than happy to do this remotely/online, I'm sure there is a way we can work it out. There would be full credit given of course.
Pmpd seems like the way to go with this. I have worked through
the examples, and, although I have my eye on what examples I would presume to be the best starting points, I'm struggling to get started. The physical modelling is where I first need to start but there's loads of pd stuff I would like to be able to work through with someone, so this could be a (me love you)longtime regular small money earner, if anyone's interested.I am in Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, UK, by the way. Any pd'ers local, give us a shout.
Best wishes to all,
Jb
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Jack