Thanks Karl, I think I may need some clarification if you have the time
Is there a way to force PD to use the ASIO drivers for my Echo/Layla in win2K (layla drivers are beta in win2K) and forsake the windows sound driver?
So with Linux (+ lowlatency kernel) you can actually get 5ms latency? That is basically the timing I am looking for. But I've never used Linux, so unless my linux friends help me, I'd be stranded with this as a solution :)
What you are saying is that Linux w/ RME hardware is the only way to get around 3-9ms latency with PD?
What about linux w/ multiple soundblasters or something?
Is it linux + lowlatency kernel that gets 5ms? or that bundled with RME hardware?
Thanks so much!
Also, very good to hear you mention MSP/motu which I was also considering as an alternative. So that fabled 6ms isn't really attainable, interesting. Good thing I know this now, as I have no mac's near me to test this on.
Thanks again everyone for their help, I really don't want to buy a kyma :) I'd much rather use PD, if I can get 5ms out of it, I will be ecstatic
-daniel
Really the only way to fix this problem is to adapt PD to use ASIO drivers. This was mentioned recently on the list, but the problem with the normal windows sound drivers is that they go through a kernel mixer (called kmixer - this allows more than one app to access a sound card simultaneously) that adds a minimum of 30ms. It seems that a lot of pro cards circumvent this with their ASIO drivers.
The best solution is linux, but then you don't get to use your layla because the manufacturer is not nice. Of course, if you are willing to buy a macintosh you could just be an RME hammerfall card instead, install linux + low-latency kernel, and enjoy 5ms latency regardless of disk or cpu load. As for the Macintosh latency I think that the 6ms measurement is not a real measure of end to end latency - I have never seen the Max/MSP machines that I have access to (G3s with MOTU 2408) get anything near that because of the complete inadequacy of the MacOS in all regards (sorry about that comment - I couldn't stop myself).
Karl
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote:
Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data
for PD
on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run
it
on my system and send you the results?
I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch,
and
have never gotten around to it.
I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the low-latency patch.
-----Original Message----- From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc
Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for several weeks. It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible!
I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing performance out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit)
I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices,
changing
audiobuf, etc
Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on my system? Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ certain hardware a 6ms latency can be had. Is anything this low possible with PD? I'd much rather stay within windows.
Sorry for the bother with this question
I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating that PD can give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a
PC
can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips
and
all)
Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question -daniel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
-- _____________________________________________________ | Karl W. MacMillan | | Computer Music Department | | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac |
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, d d wrote:
Thanks Karl, I think I may need some clarification if you have the time
Is there a way to force PD to use the ASIO drivers for my Echo/Layla in win2K (layla drivers are beta in win2K) and forsake the windows sound driver?
This will require extra code in PD. Also, there is some sort of SDK that requires licensing.
So with Linux (+ lowlatency kernel) you can actually get 5ms latency? That is basically the timing I am looking for. But I've never used Linux, so unless my linux friends help me, I'd be stranded with this as a solution :)
People claim this and I am about to start testing this. In my experience I can get latency that is very low but I don't have a hard number. It is low enough that when you mix the original signal with the signal going through linux it is not perceivable as latency, but rather as filtering.
What you are saying is that Linux w/ RME hardware is the only way to get around 3-9ms latency with PD?
No - it is just a good multi-channel card that works under linux.
What about linux w/ multiple soundblasters or something?
There are sync problems with multiple cards - you can search the PD archives for some good posts about this.
Is it linux + lowlatency kernel that gets 5ms? or that bundled with RME hardware?
It is the low overhead of the linux driver model combined with the low scheduling latency of the lowlatency kernel - it is mostly independent of hardware (though the hardware does introduce some latency itself).
Karl
Thanks so much!
Also, very good to hear you mention MSP/motu which I was also considering as an alternative. So that fabled 6ms isn't really attainable, interesting. Good thing I know this now, as I have no mac's near me to test this on.
Thanks again everyone for their help, I really don't want to buy a kyma :) I'd much rather use PD, if I can get 5ms out of it, I will be ecstatic
-daniel
Really the only way to fix this problem is to adapt PD to use ASIO drivers. This was mentioned recently on the list, but the problem with the normal windows sound drivers is that they go through a kernel mixer (called kmixer - this allows more than one app to access a sound card simultaneously) that adds a minimum of 30ms. It seems that a lot of pro cards circumvent this with their ASIO drivers.
The best solution is linux, but then you don't get to use your layla because the manufacturer is not nice. Of course, if you are willing to buy a macintosh you could just be an RME hammerfall card instead, install linux + low-latency kernel, and enjoy 5ms latency regardless of disk or cpu load. As for the Macintosh latency I think that the 6ms measurement is not a real measure of end to end latency - I have never seen the Max/MSP machines that I have access to (G3s with MOTU 2408) get anything near that because of the complete inadequacy of the MacOS in all regards (sorry about that comment - I couldn't stop myself).
Karl
On Mon, 11 Dec 2000, Michael Lechasseur wrote:
Perhaps you could dual boot to Linux? I don't have any latency data
for PD
on Win2000, but if you'd like to write a latency test patch, I could run
it
on my system and send you the results?
I've wanted to test this since applying the kernel low-latency patch,
and
have never gotten around to it.
I have an Athlon 600, 64MB Ram, Redhat 6.2, Kernel 2.2.16 with the low-latency patch.
-----Original Message----- From: d d [mailto:denglertdp@hotmail.com] Sent: Monday, December 11, 2000 1:02 PM To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: performance in pd - audiobuf, etc
Hello, I'm new to PD, and have been using it sporadically for several weeks. It is extremely interesting, seems to do the things I can't do with my NordModular. My thanks to all who made it possible!
I know you probably don't want to hear this question again, but I was wondering if there was a way to get real time audio processing performance out of PD. (windows 2000 pent III 500mHz, awe64, echo layla 20bit)
I've tried adjusting all the command params, disabling devices,
changing
audiobuf, etc
Is there anyway to knock the latency to hardware like levels on my system? Even if the answer is different hardware, OS, etc I'm considering a Mac purchase because cycling74 claims w/ certain hardware a 6ms latency can be had. Is anything this low possible with PD? I'd much rather stay within windows.
Sorry for the bother with this question
I'd like to have this ultimate control over processing/creating that PD can give, but I also need hardware like latency In/Out I don't want to spend money on a Kyma, because it seems logical that a
PC
can do this sort of thing these days (what with the nifty fast chips
and
all)
Thanks all who read this far, sorry for the dull question -daniel _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com
-- _____________________________________________________ | Karl W. MacMillan | | Computer Music Department | | Peabody Institute of the Johns Hopkins University | | karlmac@peabody.jhu.edu | | www.peabody.jhu.edu/~karlmac |
Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com