HI Husk!

Cool that you are joining the meeting again..

I will carry some things to show..  and also maybe we can jam a little bit at the end of the session.

I think the good term for the meetings is something like 50% topic day  and 50% anarch..

c:u

HI Hi servando

Important!

The meeting will be on 28  (twentyeight)..  (if somebody is going to respond the other thread, please, edit the subject..)

As we said before, It will be at 18:00  because  there´s a pd workshop running til 16:00   So the attending people (and the teachers), can join the meeting afterwards.

Here we are :)

For sure I'll partecipate again to pdBerlin Meeting. It was a pleasure the first time, it will be the same again ;)

BTW I'm one of the "anarchist" way: In my experience (I remember some open Wednesday in riereta or open dijous in Hangar, Barcelona, or some others meeting in Bugslab in Rome) have a "free from scheme" meeting let people more free to bring what they are doing, more free to ask, share and partecipate. Also the presentation scheme, one relator talking of some subject in front of the others I'm not sure is the best. It often limitates people ask or just exploring themself.

my two cents husk

Mat:  so, how was the pdmtl #6 ? , for sure  when we will have 30 pd meetings in Berlin it will be quite different..

I don't remember very much, as pdmtl #6 (six) was nearly six years ago. There were four presentations and a total of 10 people. The attendance was thus much smaller than at the meetings #2, #3, #4, but in the end, our average attendance grew closer to that, with the years.

http://artengine.ca/pdmtl/6.html

pdmtl #36 (thirty-six) has just happened. We were only seven, which is below average. But it was fun, and people seemed happy to meet. Low number of people means that the interactions are easier because with large numbers, people get shy and don't want to disturb. I think that #36 had more questions (during or after the presentations).

• agree..

btw,  are you recording the meetings?

No. I think that quite a few presentations would just not happen if we recorded them for posterity (or streamed them worldwide). The most popular word in our texts is « uhhhhhhh ». ;)

• In our case is uhmmmm..   : )

Also, do you speak French ? almost all of the presentations happen in French (and not in a european dialect).

*very little, but maybe enough to follow a pd conversation..

I would love to attend them to take ideas for the Berlin meet., Slowly or not so slowly, the Berlin meeting will develope. Time is an important factor here..

pdmtl originally got a real quick start. our record number of people was 25 at the #3 in march 2004. the problem was in keeping it a large number over the years because many people come and go and expectations come and go.

• Pd Berlin also had packed days in the beguinning.  some people at Nk were surprised somehow to see the amount of people in the early meetings in comparison with the supercollider meet.

But.. as we know, the quality it´s not in the number...  and definitely, we had very nice and inspiring meetings until now, specially this days with "surprise" guests  and also improvised "last-patch showcase"..  I have to apologize for non documenting and archiving the pdBln meets as they deserve..  but well.. It´s never too late (and I still have some vids and pics from former meetings..).

As I see in  your arquive from pdmtl, seems to be quite more serious and organized than pdBln but of course, we are different countries, cultures and approaches but both of them valid..  B-)

| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC

Hi all I went to a couple of meetings but found them, as a beginner, not particularly motivating. I think, if you got some experience with Pd, work best because they are more focused on showing what you've already done.

As a beginner, of course, you want to attend because you want to learn from the basics, the fundamentals, which is the reason why these meetings tend to become pseudo workshops, but from what I read in the forum, there is neither the desire nor the idea of doing it this way. Anyhow, showcasing is also good, because you get the picture of the potential and amplitude of pd.

A good solution could be to provide a regularly basic course in Pd (every season, or something) in addition to specific workshops (I missed Servando´s one, pity!).

This, I think, would be a healthy way to create a more participatory community.

Best

Roberto

El 17/09/2010, a las 18:30, servando barreiro escribió:

...

Mat: so, how was the pdmtl #6 ? , for sure when we will have 30 pd meetings in Berlin it will be quite different..

I don't remember very much, as pdmtl #6 (six) was nearly six years ago. There were four presentations and a total of 10 people. The attendance was thus much smaller than at the meetings #2, #3, #4, but in the end, our average attendance grew closer to that, with the years.

http://artengine.ca/pdmtl/6.html

pdmtl #36 (thirty-six) has just happened. We were only seven, which is below average. But it was fun, and people seemed happy to meet. Low number of people means that the interactions are easier because with large numbers, people get shy and don't want to disturb. I think that #36 had more questions (during or after the presentations).

• agree..

...

btw, are you recording the meetings?

No. I think that quite a few presentations would just not happen if we recorded them for posterity (or streamed them worldwide). The most popular word in our texts is « uhhhhhhh ». ;)

• In our case is uhmmmm.. : )

Also, do you speak French ? almost all of the presentations happen in French (and not in a european dialect).

*very little, but maybe enough to follow a pd conversation..

...

I would love to attend them to take ideas for the Berlin meet., Slowly or not so slowly, the Berlin meeting will develope. Time is an important factor here..

pdmtl originally got a real quick start. our record number of people was 25 at the #3 in march 2004. the problem was in keeping it a large number over the years because many people come and go and expectations come and go.

• Pd Berlin also had packed days in the beguinning. some people at Nk were surprised somehow to see the amount of people in the early meetings in comparison with the supercollider meet.

But.. as we know, the quality it´s not in the number... and definitely, we had very nice and inspiring meetings until now, specially this days with "surprise" guests and also improvised "last-patch showcase".. I have to apologize for non documenting and archiving the pdBln meets as they deserve.. but well.. It´s never too late (and I still have some vids and pics from former meetings..).

As I see in your arquive from pdmtl, seems to be quite more serious and organized than pdBln but of course, we are different countries, cultures and approaches but both of them valid.. B-)

---

| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC

---

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Roberto Duarte +49 30 639 16015 +49 176 967 64274 Treptowerstr. 21, HH 4 Stock 12059 Berlin www.robertoduarte.de

I went to a couple of meetings but found them, as a beginner, not
particularly motivating. I think, if you got some experience with Pd, work best because they are
more focused on showing what you've already done.

As a beginner, of course, you want to attend because you want to learn
from the basics, the fundamentals, which is the reason why these
meetings tend to become pseudo workshops, but from what I read in the
forum, there is neither the desire nor the idea of doing it this way. Anyhow, showcasing is also good, because you get the picture of the
potential and amplitude of pd.

A good solution could be to provide a regularly basic course in Pd
(every season, or something) in addition to specific workshops (I missed
Servando´s one, pity!).

This, I think, would be a healthy way to create a more participatory
community.

Hi Roberto (sorry, don't remember your face),

I'll tell things from my point of view, which is the other opposite: from
being one of the more experienced people on those meetings, I don't find
it very motivating to go to the reunions to speak all the time and be a
patch fireman, and not getting much from it (apart from nice smiles) that
I can use myself.

If you want a pd course thought by real people (you can get lots of
materials online), we can organise a real workshop, where someone speaks,
you pay and you go in. That isn't the point of these meetings, as I myself
don't have the time or the wish to be preparing or providing for "regular
basic courses" just like that (to put it bluntly, I must manage to pay my
rent).

Also, I myself don't go to those meetings to evangelise or convince people
to use Pd. If you want to use Pd, you need yourself to get into it, and be
prepared to spend lots of time with it. That's how you stop being a
"beginner" to be something else. And this leads into the other point,
maybe you didn't use the resources of the meetings to its fullest yet. We
always encourage people to sign up in the wiki (which you did), and also
put in suggestions of themes they want to see handled, which I don't see
any - so far only the "advanced people" put it their theme sugestions, so
I think I (we)'ve done our part. So, I don't know what are the motivating
points that you want to know. But since I'm not here to make sure you will
use pd, you're that one who has to tell that (to me or anyone else). So,
paraphrasing someone, don't ask yourself what these meetings can do for
you, ask what you can do for these meetings. If you are interested in a
specific point, tell the world what it is, and if someone there has
experience with it, he might come forward and show his patches around, or
whatever he wants to.

As I see it, healthy participation comes from both sides, don't expect
people to cater for you if you don't do your part of the bargain - we're
not providing a service, it's supposed to be a give and take situation.
Or, if you don't have any themes for now, go there, sit down and program,
until you find a problem. Then ask the guy on your side what does he know
about it. If he doesn't know much, ask the guy in front, and so on.

And if this still isn't enough for you, then you might need a workshop
with a tutor - that's what you won't get in these meetings, at least not
from me (of course I don't speak for anyone else).

João Pais

Well I think in a way being treated as not doing my part just for
proposing that a basic course could be helpful is not motivating.

that depends how you read the message (or how I put it). main point is,
you have the power to make the meetings go to meet your needs. just tell
everyone what these are, and it can happen. I wrote that paragraph because you said that you the meetings weren't
appealing to you, not because you made a suggestion (which is a good
thing).

honestly I started looking for information on line and then I went to
the meetings because I feel a bit confusing starting in that way

that is normal, many people stop at that point and turn to something else
that is already preformated. part of the journey you need to do alone, an
other part you need some external help, that's how it is.

Don´t carry all the weight by yourself there must be somebody able to
teach beginners in a regular way (thats also means money for the rent,
of course).

there should be, but then it's up to you (and others) to ask the question.
if I (we) wanted to convince people to use Pd, something more structured
would have been put up. since it's not the case, I (we) am here to help
with the way.

I'm myself not against teaching pd regularly, as well. just not on the
scope of these meetings.

again, a main need (in my case, hope other beginners feel like saying
something) would be a Basic Course, and it is of course, out of the
scope of the meetings.

a "complete basic course" is outside of these meetings, at least from my
point of view. but you can slowly try to build one yourself: tell one by
one what are your interests, and one week one user might share something,
the next week another user, a third week some other user... you won't get
it all at once (or maybe you will, who knows), but there should be
resources there to cover lots of things. but the main point must come from you. leave a message in the wiki (that's
why we spent the time putting it there), or come to the next meeting and
say that out loud.

The initial Idea was: people with some basic Pd skills will be more
participative, pumping up further meetings.

that is supposed to be the goal of the meetings, so that a user group
builds up, and people know where to get help, being no one unreplaceable -
that's also why "basic users" should also do their part, so that the
reunions don't depend only on the people organising it.