From: jbturgid@hotmail.com To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: RE: [PD] HID double triggers Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 18:27:15 +0000

I've had this problem before with [hid], apparently it's a hardware issue called 'debouncing', which is often ignored because it is often irrelevant (pushed is pushed, for game controllers, rather than a button-on/button-off signal used for most music systems).

You can deal with the problem in pure data by using a trigger, float and delay of one millisecond. See the attached patch, click the message boxes and watch your terminal for the result.

I hope this helps.

Andrew

Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:53:44 +0100 From: james@4thharmonic.com To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: [PD] HID double triggers

Hi list,



recently I've been playing around with [hid] again and still have
the issue with double triggers on linux (see previous post here).



I've downloaded the latest version of

Pd-0.43.1-extended-ubuntu-lucid-i386.deb
but I have the same problem with my existing Arch Linux installation
on my laptop as well.



It works fine on Mac 10.6. The problem is that I basically get two
identical events for each key press and release, ie:



[hid] 0.7, written by Hans-Christoph Steiner
  <hans@eds.org>

      compiled on Apr 15 2012 at 08:12:47 

  [hid] opened device 4 (/dev/input/event4): AT Translated Set 2
  keyboard

  print: key key_u 1

  print: key key_u 1

  print: key key_u 0

  print: key key_u 0



Is anyone else having this problem?



thanks



James

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my experience is that puredata basically takes the raw signal from your controller. If you can find some method of fixing this in your OS, by all means let me know

Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2012 10:42:06 +0100 From: james@4thharmonic.com To: jbturgid@hotmail.com CC: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at Subject: Re: [PD] HID double triggers

If it was spurious noise from a switch that was insufficiently
debounced, surely I would get more random triggers? For example,
sometimes one trigger, sometimes two or three? Also, if this is a
fundamental issue with the hardware, then how does Mac OS X manage
to handle it correctly? Surely it is an issue with either [hid] or
linux, and therefore a bug with one or the other?



Thanks for the patch. It is possible to ignore duplicate messages in
a stream as you suggest however it's complicated somewhat by the
fact that the messages don't always arrive in the same order!



For example:



[hid] 0.7, written by Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org>

      compiled on Apr 15 2012 at 08:12:47 

  [hid] opened device 4 (/dev/input/event4): AT Translated Set 2
  keyboard

print: key key_j 1

  print: key key_l 1

  print: key key_j 1

  print: key key_l 1

  print: key key_j 0

  print: key key_j 0

  print: key key_l 0

  print: key key_l 0



I can filter these out later on, but it would be nice to have a
bug free object!



thanks for you help



James





Quoth Andrew Faraday, on 18/04/2012 19:27:


   I've had this problem before with [hid],
    apparently it's a hardware issue called 'debouncing', which is
    often ignored because it is often irrelevant (pushed is pushed,
    for game controllers, rather than a button-on/button-off signal
    used for most music systems). 



    You can deal with the problem in pure data by using a trigger,
    float and delay of one millisecond. See the attached patch,
    click the message boxes and watch your terminal for the result.




    I hope this helps.



    Andrew




      Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2012 16:53:44 +0100

      From: james@4thharmonic.com

      To: pd-list@iem.kug.ac.at

      Subject: [PD] HID double triggers



      Hi list,



      recently I've been playing around with [hid] again and still
      have the issue with double triggers on linux (see previous
      post here).



      I've downloaded the latest version of Pd-0.43.1-extended-ubuntu-lucid-i386.deb
      but I have the same problem with my existing Arch Linux
      installation on my laptop as well.



      It works fine on Mac 10.6. The problem is that I basically get
      two identical events for each key press and release, ie:



      [hid] 0.7, written by Hans-Christoph Steiner <hans@eds.org>

            compiled on Apr 15 2012 at 08:12:47 

        [hid] opened device 4 (/dev/input/event4): AT Translated Set
        2 keyboard

        print: key key_u 1

        print: key key_u 1

        print: key key_u 0

        print: key key_u 0



      Is anyone else having this problem?



      thanks



      James



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Quoth IOhannes m zmoelnig, on 21/04/2012 14:23:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2012-04-18 20:27, Andrew Faraday wrote:

...

I've had this problem before with [hid], apparently it's a hardware issue called 'debouncing', which is often ignored because it is often irrelevant (pushed is pushed, for game controllers, rather than a button-on/button-off signal used for most music systems).

You can deal with the problem in pure data by using a trigger, float and delay of one millisecond. See the attached patch, click the message boxes and watch your terminal for the result.

[change] seems to be the more appropriate solution here...

fgmasdr IOhannes

Thanks for the suggestion. The problem I have with these two solutions is that they only work when the double triggers are in sequence. Sometime they arrive like this:

[hid] 0.7, written by Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org mailto:hans@eds.org compiled on Apr 15 2012 at 08:12:47 [hid] opened device 4 (/dev/input/event4): AT Translated Set 2 keyboard print: key key_j 1 print: key key_l 1 print: key key_j 1 print: key key_l 1 print: key key_j 0 print: key key_j 0 print: key key_l 0 print: key key_l 0

So I would need to store the value of each key individually and check each one with [change]. Instead of this long-winded method, I've downloaded [linuxevent] which is working nicely so I think I'll stick with this even though it may be deprecated?

Surely this is a bug with [hid] though?

James

Quoth Hans-Christoph Steiner, on 22/04/2012 01:32:

On Apr 21, 2012, at 10:22 AM, James Dunn wrote:

...

Quoth IOhannes m zmoelnig, on 21/04/2012 14:23:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1

On 2012-04-18 20:27, Andrew Faraday wrote:

...

I've had this problem before with [hid], apparently it's a hardware issue called 'debouncing', which is often ignored because it is often irrelevant (pushed is pushed, for game controllers, rather than a button-on/button-off signal used for most music systems).

You can deal with the problem in pure data by using a trigger, float and delay of one millisecond. See the attached patch, click the message boxes and watch your terminal for the result.

[change] seems to be the more appropriate solution here...

fgmasdr IOhannes

Thanks for the suggestion. The problem I have with these two solutions is that they only work when the double triggers are in sequence. Sometime they arrive like this:

[hid] 0.7, written by Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org mailto:hans@eds.org compiled on Apr 15 2012 at 08:12:47 [hid] opened device 4 (/dev/input/event4): AT Translated Set 2 keyboard print: key key_j 1 print: key key_l 1 print: key key_j 1 print: key key_l 1 print: key key_j 0 print: key key_j 0 print: key key_l 0 print: key key_l 0

So I would need to store the value of each key individually and check each one with [change]. Instead of this long-winded method, I've downloaded [linuxevent] which is working nicely so I think I'll stick with this even though it may be deprecated?

Surely this is a bug with [hid] though?

Could be. If you think so, please file a bug report. I am happy to help anyone work thru this bug. I haven't used [hid] in a good long while tho, so I'm not up on the code or the issues, nor am I likely to have time to look at it.

.hc

---

I hate it when they say, "He gave his life for his country." Nobody gives their life for anything. We steal the lives of these kids. -Admiral Gene LeRocque

Ok I filed a bug report here:

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3522957&group_id=55... https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3522957&group_id=55736&atid=478070