Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good footage.
one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
I think it's pretty apparently that no one is really "in charge",
like an organization or Linus Torvalds is. I suppose it depends on
what you define as Pd. Miller is in charge of the core code. Linus
apparently has final say over every module that is part of Linux,
while any pure-data dev can add their code to Pd-extended. You could
say we are more Bazaar than Mr. Bazaar because the Pd Bazaar has a
hand in the decision making. :D
As for money, if people were paid to work on Pd, then people could
spend solid, concentrated chunks of time on it. We could also pay
people to solve the hard annoying problems, or do cross-platform
quality assurance, or things like that. But for this to work, we
need to have a decision structure that everyone thinks is fair. I
think we should talk about this at PdCon.
In any case I support your effort, I can help by tracking down
supporting texts, etc.
.hc
On Aug 16, 2007, at 8:20 PM, marius schebella wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never
lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good
footage.one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone
should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more
difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at
all???...)the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
publicity. - Bill Moyers
Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I think it's pretty apparently that no one is really "in charge", like an organization or Linus Torvalds is.
yes, there is this community gathering around Pd and people are putting lot of work into the project; developers, patch coders, users, artists, tech/industry people, teachers, students, people who provide infrastructure, servers, rooms, hosting, web designer, people who work on tutorials, help patches...
I suppose it depends on what you define as Pd.
I am talking 1) about the "core" software (incl. different branches) and 2) about everything that is distributed with it, patches and infrastructure. not about applications coded with pd.
Miller is in charge of the core code.
I admire Miller, and what I am saying now could start a flame war: I think that does not necessarily have to be.
decision making. :D
that is the crucial point.
As for money, if people were paid to work on Pd, then people could spend solid, concentrated chunks of time on it. We could also pay people to solve the hard annoying problems, or do cross-platform quality assurance, or things like that. But for this to work, we need to have a decision structure that everyone thinks is fair. I think we should talk about this at PdCon.
If there is no "big head" then initatives like summer of code are a good alternative. encouraging people to set up their own project, funding, and being in charge of what to do with money.
In any case I support your effort, I can help by tracking down supporting texts, etc.
thnks. marius.
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
while any pure-data dev can add their code to Pd-extended. You could say we are more Bazaar than Mr. Bazaar because the Pd Bazaar has a hand in the decision making. :D
I think that you're confusing people. «The Cathedral and The Buzzword» was written by ESR. Linus didn't start the Bazaar theory: ESR came up with that as observation (and perhaps some imagination). I don't think that the Linux kernel project epitomises "Bazaar"-style of development, it was simply an early example of very distributed development. You can't take that and judge it by rules that it doesn't try to follow in a game that it doesn't try to play.
Real bazaars are more like shopping centres than like that kumbaya idea of let's make a little place for everybody and everybody will be happy. It's not quite like http://www.cinemapassion.com/covers_temp/covers/Les_Calinours_a_vos_souhaits...
Perhaps we could have a walk together to Marché Jean-Talon and contemplate how much of it can be called a Bazaar and then ask the commerçants one by one how much they get charged for just taking up space in the market.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada
On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:09:06PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
while any pure-data dev can add their code to Pd-extended. You could say we are more Bazaar than Mr. Bazaar because the Pd Bazaar has a hand in the decision making. :D
I think that you're confusing people. «The Cathedral and The Buzzword» was written by ESR. Linus didn't start the Bazaar theory: ESR came up with that as observation (and perhaps some imagination).
ESR's wild imagination is oft lampooned in the comic Everybody Loves Eris S. Raymond.
http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/ http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/microsoft-job-offer
The end of the "Interests and politics" section of his Wikipedia page is quite illuminating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._Raymond
In my opinion, his views on race, religion, and politics obscure any kind of intelligent comments he has made in relation to software. The Cathedral and The Bazaar is an interesting read, but full of so much speculative pseudo science that I felt slightly ill after reading it.
Best,
Chris.
On Aug 21, 2007, at 1:32 AM, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Fri, Aug 17, 2007 at 02:09:06PM -0400, Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
On Fri, 17 Aug 2007, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
while any pure-data dev can add their code to Pd-extended. You
could say we are more Bazaar than Mr. Bazaar because the Pd Bazaar has a hand in the decision making. :DI think that you're confusing people. «The Cathedral and The
Buzzword» was written by ESR. Linus didn't start the Bazaar theory: ESR came up
with that as observation (and perhaps some imagination).ESR's wild imagination is oft lampooned in the comic Everybody Loves Eris S. Raymond.
http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/ http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/microsoft-job-offer
The end of the "Interests and politics" section of his Wikipedia
page is quite illuminating: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_S._RaymondIn my opinion, his views on race, religion, and politics obscure any kind of intelligent comments he has made in relation to software. The Cathedral and The Bazaar is an interesting read, but full of so much speculative pseudo science that I felt slightly ill after reading it.
Wow, he's a bit off indeed. Thanks for that link. I never was a big
fan, that was pretty much the nail in the coffin.
.hc
Best,
Chris.
There is no way to peace, peace is the way. -A.J. Muste
If there is enough interest to commit this to video, I could do a little shooting- just let me know and I will bring a camera and mic to Montreal. I will be there wed. evening through sat. morning. I am working on another documentary project right now and cannot commit to any reasonable schedule for editing or other post production but can hand over the tapes or work on it when my schedule opens up. I would want someone with more knowledge of the Pd world to help determine who and what to shoot and help with interviewing but I am happy to help out.
greg
On 8/16/07, marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good footage.
one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
That sounds awesome! I think a little documentary video would be
quite nice to have.
.hc
On Aug 17, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Greg Pond wrote:
If there is enough interest to commit this to video, I could do a little shooting- just let me know and I will bring a camera and mic to Montreal. I will be there wed. evening through sat. morning. I am working on another documentary project right now and cannot commit to any reasonable schedule for editing or other post production but can hand over the tapes or work on it when my schedule opens up. I would want someone with more knowledge of the Pd world to help determine who and what to shoot and help with interviewing but I am happy to help out.
greg
On 8/16/07, marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd
like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never
lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica
festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good
footage.one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone
should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a
table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more
difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at
all???...)the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies,
one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better
language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
I will pack the gear. I have another friend who is coming too that studied video with me, if he is willing to help, maybe between the two of us we can cover a good bit. I will be in a workshop and doing some other things to learn more about PD but I think this will help me out a lot too. Please send suggestions for subjects/topics and help me make arrangements to connect with the appropriate folks if you can.
greg
On 8/17/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
That sounds awesome! I think a little documentary video would be quite nice to have.
.hc
On Aug 17, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Greg Pond wrote:
If there is enough interest to commit this to video, I could do a little shooting- just let me know and I will bring a camera and mic to Montreal. I will be there wed. evening through sat. morning. I am working on another documentary project right now and cannot commit to any reasonable schedule for editing or other post production but can hand over the tapes or work on it when my schedule opens up. I would want someone with more knowledge of the Pd world to help determine who and what to shoot and help with interviewing but I am happy to help out.
greg
On 8/16/07, marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good footage.
one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
that is great! maybe pdconv people are also taping some parts? marius.
Greg Pond wrote:
I will pack the gear. I have another friend who is coming too that studied video with me, if he is willing to help, maybe between the two of us we can cover a good bit. I will be in a workshop and doing some other things to learn more about PD but I think this will help me out a lot too. Please send suggestions for subjects/topics and help me make arrangements to connect with the appropriate folks if you can.
greg
On 8/17/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
That sounds awesome! I think a little documentary video would be quite nice to have.
.hc
On Aug 17, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Greg Pond wrote:
If there is enough interest to commit this to video, I could do a little shooting- just let me know and I will bring a camera and mic to Montreal. I will be there wed. evening through sat. morning. I am working on another documentary project right now and cannot commit to any reasonable schedule for editing or other post production but can hand over the tapes or work on it when my schedule opens up. I would want someone with more knowledge of the Pd world to help determine who and what to shoot and help with interviewing but I am happy to help out.
greg
On 8/16/07, marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good footage.
one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
Yep, I would be happy to help out with this - Greg I was hoping you would bring the camera anyway. The two of us will be in touch about this, but if you (the list) can think of people to track down we might be able to find them and set up times. With the convention coming up in just a few days, we would really need help with getting some sort of outline. Both of us have only been using Pd for just over a year, so those of you who have been using and developing in the last few years could be a great help here.
We need to decide on some core topics to ask about - what do you guys and gals think needs to be covered in this brief documentary? I have some ideas but I would rather pose the question to the community at this point.
I think it is well within our means to produce a short overview of some important aspects of Pd, or at the very least to have footage and material available when someone seeking resources needs it.
Kevin
On 8/17/07, Greg Pond gregpond@gmail.com wrote:
I will pack the gear. I have another friend who is coming too that studied video with me, if he is willing to help, maybe between the two of us we can cover a good bit. I will be in a workshop and doing some other things to learn more about PD but I think this will help me out a lot too. Please send suggestions for subjects/topics and help me make arrangements to connect with the appropriate folks if you can.
greg
On 8/17/07, Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@eds.org wrote:
That sounds awesome! I think a little documentary video would be quite nice to have.
.hc
On Aug 17, 2007, at 3:53 PM, Greg Pond wrote:
If there is enough interest to commit this to video, I could do a little shooting- just let me know and I will bring a camera and mic to Montreal. I will be there wed. evening through sat. morning. I am working on another documentary project right now and cannot commit to any reasonable schedule for editing or other post production but can hand over the tapes or work on it when my schedule opens up. I would want someone with more knowledge of the Pd world to help determine who and what to shoot and help with interviewing but I am happy to help out.
greg
On 8/16/07, marius schebella marius.schebella@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
the "money for Pd" topic was already discussed often; pd licenses for universities, several other ways to support the development of pd like conventions, google summer of code and so on. although it never lead to results... I was thinking of funds or prizes like the ars electronica festival. I am still not sure if Pd will fit in one of the categories, but I know that you have to send a DVD about the project/community. maybe the pdconv would be a good place for some interviews and shoot good footage.
one principle question for me with submissions is, if someone should be in charge of the pd community? like an official speaker, or a table of people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
the more tanglible question is, if there is someone who wants to help getting this done, filming, interviewing, cutting, writing, research.
marius.
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies, one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Thu, 16 Aug 2007, marius schebella wrote:
people. honestly I think no, but without that it will be more difficult to access some of the money. (does pd development need money at all???...)
Money is only one necessity. There is also need for time, skill, planning, methodology, determination, concentration, faith, purpose, meaning, motivation, leadership, allies, and a lot of desire.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal QC Canada
-
Chris McCormick -
Greg Pond -
Hans-Christoph Steiner -
Kevin McCoy -
marius schebella -
Mathieu Bouchard