i dont really know if tk uses ttf or bitmap fonts, nor can i find info on how to tell tk to use ttf or bitmap fonts exclusively... (well i know that i use bitmap font if i use a font name that only exists as bitmap font)
and is it just me that thinks using only bitmap font(s) would solve our problems ? (or are we allready, just the bitmap fonts are scaled or/and are different sizes on different os)
like, a 10pixels height bitmap font would(should) be 10pixels height on any os or screen resolution (were not supposed to scale bitmap fonts)
so no need to calculate sizes cause we have "predefinied" (pixel)bitmap font sizes...
i remember even miller being interested on a custom "pd-font", but didnt like (and i dont like too) about installing fonts to the client system...
i come to these "solutions":
- leave it as it is (using system courier, ttf or bitmap) and try to
"hack" the size to be exact as possible on all os/screenres 2. we do(/use) custom bitmap fonts and install them on all os 3. somehow embedd bitmap fonts in tk/pd
the "best" would be number 3. but i havent found anything about "embedding" fonts in tk apps (well, i assume we would need another font renderer than the system uses = way more work ?)
so, my vote would go to 2.
cheers andre
ps. as the topic says, i would still like to hear why we should use ttf fonts in pd... well, for big sizes ttf would be ok (if they are not used in reference/docs/tuts and so on...)
and is it just me that thinks using only bitmap font(s) would solve our problems ?
it would just change the problems. then again im not sure what the 'problem' referenced by this thread is...
is it the fonts are ugly? that can be fixed by changing the default font...
is it that the fonts often overrrun the box edges? or boxes overrun other boxes? easy to fix by letting tk choose the bounding box instead of pd pretending it can guess it
is it that the fonts are too big/small/whatever? let the user select the font..
like, a 10pixels height bitmap font would(should) be 10pixels height on any os or screen resolution (were not supposed to scale bitmap fonts)
i have 2 screens, one is 1024x768 in 17", one is 1280x800 in 12". a bitmap font is vastly different heights on the two screens..way less predictable size-wise than scalable font sizes..except that theyre getting smaller every year :D
- somehow embedd bitmap fonts in tk/pd
you should be able to do this, you can embed images into tk code anyways. but see above, re bitmaps (ie, i'm not volunteering to implement it, but i will merge my 'boxes that never overlap and are resizable' code to desiredata when i can)
the "best" would be number 3. but i havent found anything about "embedding" fonts in tk apps (well, i assume we would need another font renderer than the system uses = way more work ?)
so, my vote would go to 2.
cheers andre
On Tue, 2005-11-29 at 10:54 +0000, carmen wrote:
and is it just me that thinks using only bitmap font(s) would solve our problems ?
it would just change the problems. then again im not sure what the 'problem' referenced by this thread is...
the problems is, we are starting to make layouted help patches and (atm) they are not "rendered" the same on different os/screen sizes... (sorry, should have mentioned that)
is it the fonts are ugly? that can be fixed by changing the default font...
is it that the fonts often overrrun the box edges? or boxes overrun other boxes? easy to fix by letting tk choose the bounding box instead of pd pretending it can guess it
is it that the fonts are too big/small/whatever? let the user select the font..
like, a 10pixels height bitmap font would(should) be 10pixels height on any os or screen resolution (were not supposed to scale bitmap fonts)
i have 2 screens, one is 1024x768 in 17", one is 1280x800 in 12". a bitmap font is vastly different heights on the two screens..way less predictable size-wise than scalable font sizes..except that theyre getting smaller every year :D
yes, the bitmap font size is differnt size for your eye on different screen resolution / monitor size, but is (atleast should) be the same size for the "layout" of the patch...
btw. i started to think, can we even do help patches layout to be compatible with any other font size than what it was made ?!
- somehow embedd bitmap fonts in tk/pd
you should be able to do this, you can embed images into tk code anyways. but see above, re bitmaps (ie, i'm not volunteering to implement it, but i will merge my 'boxes that never overlap and are resizable' code to desiredata when i can)
the "best" would be number 3. but i havent found anything about "embedding" fonts in tk apps (well, i assume we would need another font renderer than the system uses = way more work ?)
so, my vote would go to 2.
cheers andre
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On Nov 29, 2005, at 5:54 AM, carmen wrote:
and is it just me that thinks using only bitmap font(s) would solve
our problems ?it would just change the problems. then again im not sure what the
'problem' referenced by this thread is...
Here are the two key problems:
- the font is rendered differently on each platform. So when the font
is a good size on Mac OS X, then it is too small on Windows.
- changing the font size doesn't change the spacing between objects,
so they overlap when the font size is increased.
is it the fonts are ugly? that can be fixed by changing the default
font...is it that the fonts often overrrun the box edges? or boxes overrun
other boxes? easy to fix by letting tk choose the bounding box instead
of pd pretending it can guess it
This sounds like the solution we are after. What would that entail?
What are the downsides?
It might be a problem for things like netpd, serendipd, and any patch
that dynamically deletes objects since those rely on pixel coords. But
there is probably a way to apply the tk scaling to that as well, via
[tot] or something.
is it that the fonts are too big/small/whatever? let the user select
the font..like, a 10pixels height bitmap font would(should) be 10pixels height
on any os or screen resolution (were not supposed to scale bitmap fonts)i have 2 screens, one is 1024x768 in 17", one is 1280x800 in 12". a
bitmap font is vastly different heights on the two screens..way less
predictable size-wise than scalable font sizes..except that theyre
getting smaller every year :D
- somehow embedd bitmap fonts in tk/pd
you should be able to do this, you can embed images into tk code
anyways. but see above, re bitmaps (ie, i'm not volunteering to
implement it, but i will merge my 'boxes that never overlap and are
resizable' code to desiredata when i can)
Regardless of what kind of font it is, it would be nice to have a
Pd-specific font. I think the Tk font handling can do anything we want
it to.
.hc
the "best" would be number 3. but i havent found anything about "embedding" fonts in tk apps (well, i assume we would need another
font renderer than the system uses = way more work ?)so, my vote would go to 2.
cheers andre
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Hans-Christoph Steiner