Hi all,
I've been trying to get PD up and running on linux for a while, but so far I've not been lucky, prolly because I'm a linux nub. The first installation I tried (Fedora) didn't have a familiar interface. The second (Ubuntu) did, but I couldn't install PD on it for some unknow reason. I used a tar-ball installation, and ran the "make install"-command and it did install on the computer, but PD just wouldn't start up. On the third distribution I tried JackLab, PD worked, but I had no internet connection. I'm used to run normal pc's (Windows), so I'm after a distribution that has a graphic desktop environment to not make it too unfamiliar for starters. But most of all I'm after a distribution that will run PD-extended and do it good. Does any of you have any recommendations to which distribution to choose and perhaps good linux and audio-sites for nubs like me?
Cheers! Thomas
i can only speak for myself, but for several reasons i like ubuntu the most. also i get the impression, that it grows to one of the biggest linux communities, so you are not alone, if you encounter troubles.
if you are after a compiled pd-extended anyway, visit http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html to see, which distros are supported (also here, ubuntu is well supported).
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 15:11 -0700, Thomas Jeppesen wrote:
did you do ./configure first? have you installed the dependencies? (at least tk8.4-dev and tcl8.4-dev come to my mind) what does 'wouldn't startup' mean? i mean, wasn't there any error printed to the console?
it is somehow in the name of ubuntu, that it tries to make everything as easy as possible (and it has a graphic environment etc. and i have good latency with the standard ubuntu kernel [5ms roundtrip on my hdsp]).
there is also puredyne https://devel.goto10.org/puredyne , which is sure worth to try, since it comes with many audio-apps like pd, jack and the like already included.
my two cents roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
On Wednesday 18 April 2007 23:11, Thomas Jeppesen wrote:
I run pd on Debian.
0.39.2 is in the current stable release, "etch", while 0.40.2 is in the current unstable release. Because Debian package management is absurdly easy installing is simply a matter of going:
# apt-get install puredata
The pd-extended binaries are available from:
http://idmi.poly.edu/pdlab/Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1/Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1-deb...
and to install you follow the given instructions except, when you run make, use /usr as the prefix, not /usr/local:
$ tar xjf Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1-debian-stable-i386.tar.bz2 $ cd Pd-0.39.2-extended-RC1-debian-stable-i386 $ make install prefix=/usr
Debian is a very nice distribution mainly because of its excellent package management system and huge and very well maintained package archive. It has both GNOME and KDE if you like graphical environments. And its popularity means that there is plenty of community support available.
Downsides: it lacks a specialist graphical system configuration tool (a la SuSE's YaST) though you can do most sysconfig tasks using either GNOME's or KDE's tools; you don't get any non-free software e.g. proprietary video/audio codecs, binary-only drivers, though many of these are available elsewhere (see http://www.debian-multimedia.org/mirrors.html); you can make installation DVDs or CDs, but its best to install from the Internet with a minimal netinstall CD.
Cheers, Richard
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 17:01 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
i agree, though ubuntu is also a debian derivative, but sometimes much easier to use than debian and from my experience comes with better maintained repos. as a beginner, i'd still vote for ubuntu.
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
Hallo, Roman Haefeli hat gesagt: // Roman Haefeli wrote:
Most of the packages in Ubuntu come directly from Debian. When I was running Ubuntu on my laptop, I found, that I wasn't using the stuff, that's not in Debian, at all, so I reverted this system from Ubuntu to Debian again. OTOH packages from Ubuntu often flow back to Debian. In the end, it's a matter of taste.
But one general advice I would give is this: Beginner's shouldn't switch between distributions a lot. They should decide on one distribution and learn it for some time, at least for some months.
And most importantly: Don't ever reinstall! (Unless the system was misconfigured in such a way that it doesn't boot.) Reinstalling doesn't fix problems on Linux. (That would be MS-Windows-thinking.) It just covers the tracks. To fix a problem on Linux, one should read the logs and read the docs and ask around for help, but not reinstall.
Just my 2ct.
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On Wed, 2007-04-18 at 19:06 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
i don't want to be an ass and please don't get me wrong, when i hook into it again. i fully agree with you. i started doing linux with debian, too. though in the end, all problems i had turned out to be manageable (and based on my lack of knowledge), i wish i had started with ubuntu first retrospectively, just because you have to make less decisions in order to get a working box, that 'just works' in everyday life. i dare say, that ubuntu is the most easy os to install at all, not only the easiest linux. when starting with linux, i had to realize that i hardly know anything about computers. i didn't even know, what a window manager is (least of all, that also windows uses a window manager, but the fact that windows tries to hide essential stuff from the user, so that he/she stays unaware about computers is anothe story) and that i was supposed to choose and install one, if i want to have a graphical interface. quite many steps were involved, until i had a running pd. i believe, in ubuntu much lesser steps are needed until pd runs. for a sligthly more advanced user, many steps seem to be obvious and are done fast, but for an innocent, naked, virgin noob (sorry for the strange wording), like i was two and a half years ago, each step can be a real pain. of course, at the end you don't have more or less possibilities in one or the other.
just my 4cents (now, i'm broke :-)
roman
___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de
I think I know where you are comming from ;)
Thanks for the good and quick feedback I've gotten through the day. It has helped me a lot. I installed Ubuntu today and it worked like a charm. I follow the advice to stick with it, at least for a few months :)
Cheers all! Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roman Haefeli" reduzierer@yahoo.de To: "Frank Barknecht" fbar@footils.org Cc: pd-list@iem.at Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 3:20 PM Subject: Re: [PD] Linux - which distribution to use?
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.446 / Virus Database: 269.2.0/757 - Release Date: 11-04-2007 17:14
So if you guys had to choose THE best linux distribution for PD and audio applications only in a LIVE PERFORMANCE with a laptop, which would it be? I'm to figure out the best distribution for my live performances with my laptop. Would a 64bit system be much better than a 32bit system?
I'm running a Compaq Presario R3440CA with a 1.8ghz AMD Athlon64, and 512mb of ram.
-Chris
Win a webcam! Nominate your friends Windows Live Space in the Windows Live Spaces Sweetest Space Contest and you both could win! http://www.microsoft.com/canada/home/contests/sweetestspace/default.aspx
On Wed Apr 18, 2007 at 09:12:01PM -0400, Chris Delahousse wrote:
So if you guys had to choose THE best linux distribution for PD and audio applications only in a LIVE PERFORMANCE with a laptop, which would it be? I'm to figure out the best distribution for my live performances with my laptop. Would a 64bit system be much better than a 32bit system?
for most things. currently Chuck, SC, and PD all work most effectively and bug-free on 32bit systems. even if you have a 64bit system, youre goign to run into issues connecting your 32bit chroot apps to a 64bit jackd, etc. if you use exclusively those 3 apps (and/or macromedia flash) id proabyl sue a 32bit OS.
as for distrii, paludis + gentoo works a treat
I am a big fan of Debian because the package management is so well
done. Ubuntu is Debian with a bit of extra polish for end users and
a brown color scheme. A number of people like FedoraCore+PlanetCCRMA
since they have done some work to package kernels tuned for realtime
media performance.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2007, at 9:12 PM, Chris Delahousse wrote:
The arc of history bends towards justice. - Dr. Martin Luther
King, Jr.
On Thu Apr 19, 2007 at 12:44:37AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I am a big fan of Debian because the package management is so well
done.
admittedly i havent used debian or related distrii for 2-3 years, so maybe my info is obsolete, but the package manager isnt that great.
the main problems are , theres no concept of SLOTs like there are in gentoo. so you end up with some packages with numbers in the names, and some without.
another is that the whole dependency thing and binary advantages breaks down and ends up in agonizing conflict when you want to say, use ubuntu but get some packages from the debian sid repo that arent in ubuntu, and some other ones from demudi..
another is its handling of build-from-source is pretty minimal compared to gentoo (and presumably sourcemage and arch).
and its hard to add things as a user. i mean on gentoo with your local overlay, its fairly simple. im not sure how to setup a local deb overlay and then automate the building of things - i guess it's possible but it wasnt really designed for that
and in general youll find yourself building 50% of a system from source if youre into obscure/new shit or some niche, at which point youll be dropped down to the level of slackware/LFS for the most part, compared to having a source manager do the work of finding the tarballs, extracting/configuring/building/installing for you..
another is the interruption of the installation process with the equiv of a modal dialog to prompt about /etc files replacement invidually...
for package managers i love paludis... much like trying 10 windowmanagers before settling on dwm, 10 media players before settling on mplayer, 10 email clients before settling on muttng, 5 OSes before settling on linux, you reach a point where something solves significantly more problems signficantly better than all the alternatives, and maybe if you use one repo, and never want to compile anything, Ubuntu is that answer..
Ubuntu is Debian with a bit of extra polish for end users and
Frank Barknecht a écrit :
In fact I didn't mean a kind of archive but a kind of apt repository that would install or suggest the install of needed files for particular externals, installing an external would look like:
apt-get install pd-nameofexternal or apt-get install pd-nameofabstractions
It's true that having at least one mirrored external archive where we could find all architectures versions would be nice.
a little bit old (feb 2006), but here's some .pd_linux for i686 - pentium4: http://www.workinprogress.ca/pd/pdlinux/
the thing is, some of the externals will not work because they need some libraries or the flext lib. pat
On Apr 19, 2007, at 9:04 AM, Patco wrote:
It would be quite straightforward to make debian packages from the Pd-
extended build system. I helped nando from CCRMA make PlanetCCRMA
packages from the Pd-extended build system, so we worked out most of
the kinks.
.hc
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Are these seperate packages for externals/abstractions and Pd itself? The Debian packages for Pd are already very good and current thanks to Guenter's work for several years, as are the Gem packages. But what's missing is a package with more externals for those, who don't want to compile everything on their own. As this package is more likely to collect lots of bug reports in the Debian BTS (because of sheer size of the package) and thus may put quite a burden on the official Debian maintainer, this pd-externals package may be easier to maintain outside of Debian.
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On Apr 19, 2007, at 6:30 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
The idea is to make a package for each library, then a separate
package for pd-extended with would be Pd-vanilla with the patches in
packages/patches. That's how things are broken out in externals/
Makefile and in PlanetCCRMA (and a bit in the current Debian
packages). And I think it makes sense here. Then it also makes for
a clear path for people to make packages for their own Pd libs
outside of the pure-data CVS, if they so choose.
.hc
News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
publicity. - Bill Moyers
Le jeudi 19 avril 2007 à 16:36 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner a écrit :
CCRMA is a nice project that helps for having a better understanding about multimedia under linux, and their packages contains precompiled realtime kernels, so it makes redhat or fedora some potential distributions to use too.
Patko.
Yep, there's loads of great stuff on PlanetCCRMA although it's worth noting that you don't need a RH distro to enjoy CCRMA packages.. I have successfully converted a few using alien to .deb packages which can then be installed with dpkg.
On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 14:14:38 +0200 patrice colet megalegoland@yahoo.fr wrote:
Question: I'm considering a dual boot because my old laptop with Debian died, and I got a new one, currently with XP (running blackbox for windows though, thanks Frank!). However, one thing I recall is that on my old laptop, the system was freezing until the kernel was patched. Having to patch the kernel before anything works.
I also could never get that computer on the internet through USB wireless (it had no built in wireless card), and these days I pretty much depend on some sort of wireless connection to get on the internet, I'm mostly working away from home. I found that Debian was impossible to use without an internet connection, and it was quite a catch22 trying to fix anything, when I couldn't search for info and apt-get things to try to solve the problem.
So, what I'm saying is, I WANT to intall Debian, but I'm very afraid to do so and have the same kind of probems. My newer computer (used one year) though, is a Dell Inspiron 630m, which my old employer let me keep when I left, while the old one was some PIII Toshiba. Can I expect an easier time with the install of Debian on a newer laptop? My friend led me to believe the problems were related to having an older laptop.
Or should I try Ubuntu first if I'm doing it myself, and wait for 6 months for the Debian until I'm more comfortable with it all? I guess it's the hardware/wireless config + kernel recompiling that I'm worried about.
~David
On 4/18/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
I happily use Ubuntu Edgy, with a pd-extended install. Also, I've found the following USB WiFi adapter to work out-of-the-box, if you don't have built-in WiFi. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16833127151 The driver is already present as a module, so you just have to update your /etc/network/interfaces file. best, -David M.
On 4/19/07, David Powers < cyborgk@gmail.com> wrote:
Are you still running Ubuntu? Which version? If so, run this command
in a Terminal window:
/usr/local/bin/pd -stderr
Then copy and paste the resulting text into and email and send it to
this list. Mostly, your Ubuntu needs to have some packages
installed. You could also try running these commands in the Terminal:
aptitude install tcl8.4 tk8.4 libasound2 libjack0.100.0-0
aptitude install libspeex1 libsndfile1 fftw3 libogg0 libvorbis0a
libvorbisenc2 libvorbisfile3
That should get you up and running at the minimum.
.hc
On Apr 18, 2007, at 6:11 PM, Thomas Jeppesen wrote:
Access to computers should be unlimited and total. - the hacker ethic
Linux from scratch is the best for beginners. First you need to build your toolchain so start by downloading the source for coreutils....
Nah only joking, Ubuntu mate. In fact.. wait until the 19th when Fiesty is released, it should be an easy ride.
Use Ubuntus package manager (Synaptic?) to do all the hard work for you.
On Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:11:51 -0700 "Thomas Jeppesen" Jeppesen@skydebanen.net wrote:
On Thu, 19 Apr 2007 04:09:55 +0100 Andy Farnell padawan12@obiwannabe.co.uk wrote:
In fact.. wait until the 19th when Fiesty is released, it should be an easy ride.
Hey, that's today! F(ei)sty is out today.
(amazing what you can learn from date and spell)
My vote goes for 64 Studio which gave me the best realtime performance / low latency out of the box without tinkering. It comes in 64bit and 32bit versions and is based on Debian too.
There is an forthcomming Ubuntustudio project which should give better performance as stock Ubuntu but they are not finished or?
Cheers,
Malte Steiner media art + development -www.block4.com-
On Thu, 2007-04-19 at 16:11 +0200, Malte Steiner wrote:
There is an forthcomming Ubuntustudio project which should give better performance as stock Ubuntu but they are not finished or?
on #ubuntustudio they told me, that it is planned to release ubuntu studio this april. let's see.......
roman
Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de
Wow... I am writing this from my first functional install of linux on my iMac G5.
Debian seems really great. Talk about an installation that "just works" - well this is the first-ever on this machine.
Cool! Thanks, Frank!
Kevin
On 4/19/07, Roman Haefeli reduzierer@yahoo.de wrote: