On Sat, 2010-09-11 at 22:30 +0200, João Pais wrote:

hi,

a couple of my abstractions aren't packaged with this distribution, e.g.
bezier.pd (it's in
https://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pure-data/trunk/abstractions/j...).

Yes, once the release process has started, then Pd-extended is built out of a branch in SVN and not trunk. You can either check in the changes yourself, or tell me what to check in.

also, an old gop bug with canvas labels is still there. the file attached
should explain it well enough.

Please file a bug report with that patch. It exists in pd-vanilla 0.42-5 and 0.43 too, so it'll probably have to wait for 0.43 to be fixed.

.hc

João

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

Ok, fixed the show stopper bug, so I think this really is the one!
Unless someone finds a critical bug, this version will be the final
release. That means test all of your patches, especially GOP GUIs.
We've fixed a number of bugs related to GOP, so it should be much more
stable. Also included:

• a couple PDP and PiDiP fixes.
• ekext help/examples fixes
• iemlib/soundfile_info works now

There are of course many bug fixes and additions since 0.41.4, here are
some highlights:

• fixing Graph-On-Parent GUI bugs
• complete 64-bit support for GNU/Linux
• full support for Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (32-bit)
• a brand new Help Browser that shows all installed libraries

For more details, check the notes on the release wiki page: http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease

Downloading

---

You can download builds for Debian, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html

You can get the source and build it yourself here: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource http://puredata.info/docs/developer/BuildingPdExtended

BUGS

---

Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! Also check the bug tracker
before reporting bugs, and if you find an existing bug report on the
same issue, please add your information there:

http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker

(you can also find the bug tracker on the Help menu, under "report bug") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin)

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-- Friedenstr. 58 10249 Berlin (Deutschland) Tel +49 30 42020091 | Mob +49 162 6843570 Studio +49 30 69509190 jmmmpais@googlemail.com | skype: jmmmpjmmmp

It's already fixed. Please use the patch tracker ! http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3064521&group_id=557...

yay!

this was an old thing, but I think I never got the change to scavenge my
patch to make a bug report.

...

It's already fixed. Please use the patch tracker ! http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3064521&group_id=557...

---

| Mathieu Bouchard ------------------------------ Villeray, Montréal, QC

I included it in Pd-extended 0.42.5. Thanks matju for the fix. Its
always helpful to also include a couple sentences describing the bug,
and the example patch.

.hc

---

As we enjoy great advantages from inventions of others, we should be
glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours; and
this we should do freely and generously. - Benjamin Franklin

super. I should have described this better before.

On Sep 12, 2010, at 4:14 AM, João Pais wrote:

...

...

a couple of my abstractions aren't packaged with this
distribution, e.g. bezier.pd (it's in https://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pure-data/trunk/abstractions/j...) .

Yes, once the release process has started, then Pd-extended is
built out of a branch in SVN and not trunk. You can either check in the
changes yourself, or tell me what to check in.

you mean there are 2 places where we should submit the code? is
there a wiki page with the instructions for it?

When making a release, we work out of a branch so that only expected
changes get incorporated into the release.

I would prefer to do it myself, then I don't have to ask you again
next time about it :)

João

The current Pd-extended release branch is here:

svn co https://pure-data.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/pure-data/branches/pd-extended...

There are some basic instructions here, basically you want to do an
SVN merge from trunk into a branch:

http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingIntoPdextended

some instructions: http://www.google.com/webhp?hl=en#sclient=psy&hl=en&site=webhp&q... +merge+trunk+into+branch&aq=f&aqi=g-c1g- o1&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=ab5cdb1806fef4aa

.hc

Programs should be written for people to read, and only incidentally
for machines to execute.

• from Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs

Hi Hans

As there seems to be some agreement now on the debian pkg-multimedia mailing list, that pd-lib packages are installed to /usr/lib/pd, I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd/extra/ to the hard-coded search pathes of this release. OTOH, /usr/local/lib/pd-externals was never really used and - I believe - can be removed.

It would be great if this Pd-extended release would be compatible with future debian pd-lib packages. Already today it would enable many packages from personal package archives to be easily used together with Pd-extended.

What do you think?

Roman

On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 18:30 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

Final call for testing! I am ready to release this build unless
someone finds a showstopper bug soon!

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2010-09-13/

.hc

On Sep 10, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

Ok, fixed the show stopper bug, so I think this really is the one!
Unless someone finds a critical bug, this version will be the final
release. That means test all of your patches, especially GOP GUIs.
We've fixed a number of bugs related to GOP, so it should be much
more stable. Also included:

• a couple PDP and PiDiP fixes.
• ekext help/examples fixes
• iemlib/soundfile_info works now

There are of course many bug fixes and additions since 0.41.4, here
are some highlights:

• fixing Graph-On-Parent GUI bugs
• complete 64-bit support for GNU/Linux
• full support for Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (32-bit)
• a brand new Help Browser that shows all installed libraries

For more details, check the notes on the release wiki page: http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease

Downloading

---

You can download builds for Debian, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html

You can get the source and build it yourself here: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource http://puredata.info/docs/developer/BuildingPdExtended

BUGS

---

Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! Also check the bug
tracker before reporting bugs, and if you find an existing bug
report on the same issue, please add your information there:

http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker

(you can also find the bug tracker on the Help menu, under "report
bug") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin)

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---

Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic

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one package for each lib would be the right way to go, I think.

2010/9/14 Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at:

Pd-extended 0.42.5 is designed to be installed at the same time as the packages that are in Debian and the ones that we are adding to Debian.  That means that it installs all its libs into /usr/lib/pdextended and ignores /usr/lib/pd.

The next step for Debian packaging for Pd-extended is having each lib in its own package, and then making a 'pdextended' package which provides 'pd' and is just the core.  That will then look in /usr/lib/pd.

.hc

On Sep 14, 2010, at 1:45 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

Hi Hans

As there seems to be some agreement now on the debian pkg-multimedia mailing list, that pd-lib packages are installed to /usr/lib/pd, I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd/extra/ to the hard-coded search pathes of this release. OTOH, /usr/local/lib/pd-externals was never really used and - I believe - can be removed.

It would be great if this Pd-extended release would be compatible with future debian pd-lib packages. Already today it would enable many packages from personal package archives to be easily used together with Pd-extended.

What do you think?

Roman

On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 18:30 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

Final call for testing!  I am ready to release this build unless someone finds a showstopper bug soon!

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2010-09-13/

.hc

On Sep 10, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

Ok, fixed the show stopper bug, so I think this really is the one! Unless someone finds a critical bug, this version will be the final release. That means test all of your patches, especially GOP GUIs. We've fixed a number of bugs related to GOP, so it should be much more stable. Also included:

• a couple PDP and PiDiP fixes.
• ekext help/examples fixes
• iemlib/soundfile_info works now

There are of course many bug fixes and additions since 0.41.4, here are some highlights:

• fixing Graph-On-Parent GUI bugs
• complete 64-bit support for GNU/Linux
• full support for Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (32-bit)
• a brand new Help Browser that shows all installed libraries

For more details, check the notes on the release wiki page: http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease

Downloading

---

You can download builds for Debian, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html

You can get the source and build it yourself here: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource http://puredata.info/docs/developer/BuildingPdExtended

BUGS

---

Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! Also check the bug tracker before reporting bugs, and if you find an existing bug report on the same issue, please add your information there:

http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker

(you can also find the bug tracker on the Help menu, under "report bug") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin)

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---

Mistrust authority - promote decentralization.  - the hacker ethic

---

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"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick

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Pd-extended 0.42.5 is done, so it'll stay as is. Pd-extended 0.43
will work with /usr/lib/pd. For 0.43, only libs that require Pd- extended will be installed into /usr/lib/pdextended.

.hc

On Sep 14, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 16:38 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

That means that it installs all its libs into /usr/lib/ pdextended

Yeah, makes sense also to me.

...

and ignores /usr/lib/pd.

Why?

You seem to ignore the fact, that there are pd-libs around in the
wild, that are _not_ part of Pd-extended and thus would be very useful to be used together with Pd-extended, but unfortunately do not work out-of-the-box, because pdextended doesn't look in /usr/lib/pd.

I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd as the last path in the search order,
so that it wouldn't interfere with everything installed in /usr/lib/pd-extended. I don't see how this would hurt with the current behaviour. When having pd-motex installed and using some
objects from motex, still /usr/lib/pd-extended would be used (instead of /usr/lib/pd, where pd-motex installs to). Nevertheless, [wiimote] from pd-wiimote which installs to /usr/lib/pd would be found.

Please enlighten me, if I am overseeing something and my proposal
would actually break something.

Roman

...

The next step for Debian packaging for Pd-extended is having each lib in its own package, and then making a 'pdextended' package which provides 'pd' and is just the core. That will then look in /usr/ lib/pd.

.hc

On Sep 14, 2010, at 1:45 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

Hi Hans

As there seems to be some agreement now on the debian pkg-multimedia mailing list, that pd-lib packages are installed to /usr/lib/pd, I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd/extra/ to the hard-coded search pathes of this release. OTOH, /usr/local/lib/pd-externals was never really
used and - I believe - can be removed.

It would be great if this Pd-extended release would be compatible
with future debian pd-lib packages. Already today it would enable many packages from personal package archives to be easily used together with Pd-extended.

What do you think?

Roman

On Mon, 2010-09-13 at 18:30 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

Final call for testing! I am ready to release this build unless someone finds a showstopper bug soon!

http://autobuild.puredata.info/auto-build/2010-09-13/

.hc

On Sep 10, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256

Ok, fixed the show stopper bug, so I think this really is the one! Unless someone finds a critical bug, this version will be the
final release. That means test all of your patches, especially GOP GUIs. We've fixed a number of bugs related to GOP, so it should be much more stable. Also included:

• a couple PDP and PiDiP fixes.
• ekext help/examples fixes
• iemlib/soundfile_info works now

There are of course many bug fixes and additions since 0.41.4,
here are some highlights:

• fixing Graph-On-Parent GUI bugs
• complete 64-bit support for GNU/Linux
• full support for Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard (32-bit)
• a brand new Help Browser that shows all installed libraries

For more details, check the notes on the release wiki page: http://puredata.info/dev/NextRelease

Downloading

---

You can download builds for Debian, Mac OS X, Ubuntu, and Windows: http://at.or.at/hans/pd/installers.html

You can get the source and build it yourself here: http://puredata.info/docs/developer/GettingPdSource http://puredata.info/docs/developer/BuildingPdExtended

BUGS

---

Test away and file bugs in the bug tracker! Also check the bug tracker before reporting bugs, and if you find an existing bug report on the same issue, please add your information there:

http://puredata.info/dev/bugtracker

(you can also find the bug tracker on the Help menu, under "report bug") -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2.0.12 (Darwin)

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---

Mistrust authority - promote decentralization. - the hacker ethic

---

Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

---

"Making boring techno music is really easy with modern tools, but
with live coding, boring techno is much harder." - Chris McCormick

'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling
away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink- collar temp pool day. - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf

Its never possible to fix all known bugs in a given release. The
combination of the big single package that Pd-extended currently is
with the single packages for each library in /usr/lib/pd makes for a
very complicated situation. So its much less work to just wait for
went Pd-extended is also packaged as one-lib-per-package, then this
will be solved with very little work.

.hc

On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:11 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 19:45 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

Pd-extended 0.42.5 is done, so it'll stay as is.

Ok. Since you called, I thought I'd report what I think needs to be fixed.

...

Pd-extended 0.43 will work with /usr/lib/pd. For 0.43, only libs that require Pd- extended will be installed into /usr/lib/pdextended.

Sounds good, though I still don't understand why not fixing it right now.

Roman

...

On Sep 14, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 16:38 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

That means that it installs all its libs into /usr/lib/ pdextended

Yeah, makes sense also to me.

...

and ignores /usr/lib/pd.

Why?

You seem to ignore the fact, that there are pd-libs around in the wild, that are _not_ part of Pd-extended and thus would be very useful
to be used together with Pd-extended, but unfortunately do not work out-of-the-box, because pdextended doesn't look in /usr/lib/pd.

I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd as the last path in the search order, so that it wouldn't interfere with everything installed in /usr/lib/pd-extended. I don't see how this would hurt with the current behaviour. When having pd-motex installed and using some objects from motex, still /usr/lib/pd-extended would be used (instead of /usr/lib/pd, where pd-motex installs to). Nevertheless, [wiimote] from pd-wiimote which installs to /usr/lib/pd would be found.

Please enlighten me, if I am overseeing something and my proposal would actually break something.

Roman

...

The next step for Debian packaging for Pd-extended is having each
lib in its own package, and then making a 'pdextended' package which provides 'pd' and is just the core. That will then look in /usr/ lib/pd.

---

Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

News is what people want to keep hidden and everything else is
publicity. - Bill Moyers

When people use Pd-extended 0.42.5, they expect that certain libraries will be there, and they will be a certain version. For example Pd-extended 0.42.5 includes Gem 0.92.3. So you can say "my patch works with Pd-extended 0.42.5" and it'll work with any installation of Pd-extended 0.42.5

If Pd-extended 0.42.5 also looks at /usr/lib/pd, then someone could install Gem 0.93 there and Pd-extended would use it. Let's say Gem 0.93 introduces an obscure bug which breaks your patch. Then someone who has installed Pd-extended 0.42.5 can no longer be sure that the patch will always work with Pd-extended 0.42.5.

So my plan going forward with Pd-extended is to get all the libs in Debian, and then actually based Pd-extended on all platforms on which pd libraries are in Debian. Windows, Mac OS X, etc. will be built the same: as one big package. This is the best way I can see then to guarantee compatability across platforms.

.hc

On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 21:22 +0200, Roman Haefeli wrote:

On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 09:13 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

Its never possible to fix all known bugs in a given release.

Yeah, I understand. I was assuming that it is only about adding another entry to /usr/lib/pd-extended/default.pdextended . If it is really that simple I don't see a reason not to do it just now. If not, I understand your hesitation.

...

The
combination of the big single package that Pd-extended currently is
with the single packages for each library in /usr/lib/pd makes for a
very complicated situation.

Probably I am overseeing something, but how can it harm to load something from /usr/lib/pd after all other default pathes have been checked? I believe, that is what now users have to do anyway when they want to use something like gridflow or [readanysf~] in pdextended: adding /usr/lib/pd/extra to the pathes.

...

So its much less work to just wait for
went Pd-extended is also packaged as one-lib-per-package, then this
will be solved with very little work.

Yo, I didn't mean to open another can of worms, of course. But I am not sure, if I can see a can at all here.

Roman

...

On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:11 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 19:45 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

Pd-extended 0.42.5 is done, so it'll stay as is.

Ok. Since you called, I thought I'd report what I think needs to be fixed.

...

Pd-extended 0.43 will work with /usr/lib/pd. For 0.43, only libs that require Pd- extended will be installed into /usr/lib/pdextended.

Sounds good, though I still don't understand why not fixing it right now.

Roman

...

On Sep 14, 2010, at 5:59 PM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

On Tue, 2010-09-14 at 16:38 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

That means that it installs all its libs into /usr/lib/ pdextended

Yeah, makes sense also to me.

...

and ignores /usr/lib/pd.

Why?

You seem to ignore the fact, that there are pd-libs around in the wild, that are _not_ part of Pd-extended and thus would be very useful
to be used together with Pd-extended, but unfortunately do not work out-of-the-box, because pdextended doesn't look in /usr/lib/pd.

I'd propose to add /usr/lib/pd as the last path in the search order, so that it wouldn't interfere with everything installed in /usr/lib/pd-extended. I don't see how this would hurt with the current behaviour. When having pd-motex installed and using some objects from motex, still /usr/lib/pd-extended would be used (instead of /usr/lib/pd, where pd-motex installs to). Nevertheless, [wiimote] from pd-wiimote which installs to /usr/lib/pd would be found.

Please enlighten me, if I am overseeing something and my proposal would actually break something.

Roman

...

The next step for Debian packaging for Pd-extended is having each
lib in its own package, and then making a 'pdextended' package which provides 'pd' and is just the core. That will then look in /usr/ lib/pd.

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Perhaps for those of us who already know our way around the unix filesystem and PD libraries, we could just

sudo cp -r /usr/lib/pd/extra/* /path/to/pdextended

...or perhaps just add /usr/lib/pd/extra to the startup path.

I think if one knows how to compile an extern it's probably a safe bet that one knows how to link, copy, sudo etc.

Perhaps in fact, the best way to deal with this is to put some lines like: " If you are using externals you have compiled yourself, you may want to put the following path into the startup paths from File->Path... (Linux / Windows) or PD->Settings...->Path... (Mac OSX):

/usr/lib/pd/extra "

...into the Readme.html file.

Metastudio 3 for Pure Data - Free download at: http://sharktracks.co.uk/puredata

----- Original Message ---- From: Roman Haefeli reduzent@gmail.com To: Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at Cc: Pd List pd-list@iem.at Sent: Thu, 16 September, 2010 8:22:18 Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released!

On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 18:57 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

When people use Pd-extended 0.42.5, they expect that certain libraries will be there, and they will be a certain version. For example Pd-extended 0.42.5 includes Gem 0.92.3. So you can say "my patch works with Pd-extended 0.42.5" and it'll work with any installation of Pd-extended 0.42.5.

I totally got that. And I never meant to put that in question.

If Pd-extended 0.42.5 also looks at /usr/lib/pd, then someone could install Gem 0.93 there and Pd-extended would use it. Let's say Gem 0.93 introduces an obscure bug which breaks your patch. Then someone who has installed Pd-extended 0.42.5 can no longer be sure that the patch will always work with Pd-extended 0.42.5.

That's why I proposed to put the path /usr/lib/pd/extra last in the order. So Pd-extended would still load it's own Gem and not the manually installed one. It's really *_only_* about making it easier to load libraries that are *_not_yet_* part of Pd-extended while at the same time not interfere with the libraries that are already part of Pd-extended. I hope I could make myself clear now.

Roman

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On Thu, 2010-09-16 at 09:58 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

On Sep 16, 2010, at 3:22 AM, Roman Haefeli wrote:

...

On Wed, 2010-09-15 at 18:57 -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

...

When people use Pd-extended 0.42.5, they expect that certain
libraries will be there, and they will be a certain version. For example Pd-extended 0.42.5 includes Gem 0.92.3. So you can say "my patch
works with Pd-extended 0.42.5" and it'll work with any installation of Pd-extended 0.42.5.

I totally got that. And I never meant to put that in question.

...

If Pd-extended 0.42.5 also looks at /usr/lib/pd, then someone could install Gem 0.93 there and Pd-extended would use it. Let's say Gem
0.93 introduces an obscure bug which breaks your patch. Then someone
who has installed Pd-extended 0.42.5 can no longer be sure that the patch
will always work with Pd-extended 0.42.5.

That's why I proposed to put the path /usr/lib/pd/extra last in the order. So Pd-extended would still load it's own Gem and not the
manually installed one. It's really *_only_* about making it easier to load libraries that are *_not_yet_* part of Pd-extended while at the same time not interfere with the libraries that are already part of Pd-extended. I hope I could make myself clear now.

Its not clear what the result would be with that, and I want to get
this release out. Anyone is still free to add /usr/lib/pd/extra to
their path, so its not a big deal.

I was assuming (and still believe) that adding a path at the end would be not big deal. But yeah, doing it manually is also no big deal.

There is one major disadvantage by adding it using the menu, though: You have no control of the order. I added it and it was not put at the end of the current list. So to me it seems, that adding manually has a higher chance of making someone's Pd-extended installation incompatible with others. Again, this could be avoided if the path would be already hard-coded at the end of the path list.

Please, don't get me wrong, I don't think, that is issue is utterly important and needs to be fixed right now, but I hesitate to stop a discussion when I feel that my arguments weren't understood. I'm OK with letting it rest until 0.43 is released.

Roman

ola,

...

...

The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers? ) do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

it's just being realistic how many windows users will really use pd? or just make a lame download?

Dan Wilcox wrote:

Hoho, throwing down the gauntlet as usual. :D

On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:24 PM, ydegoyon@gmail.com mailto:ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:

...

ola,

...

...

...

The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers? ) do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

---

Dan Wilcox danomatika.com http://danomatika.com robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com

I use pd on both systems. Although I only have linux on my computers, there's some windows machines at the research center, all with pd on them :)

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 8:38 AM, Olivier Heinry olivier@heinry.fr wrote:

Well I'd rather have "them" , the lame windows users, download Pd than a 30-day resetter of MSP. Plsu the day they switch to Linux, they won't have to redesign their patches from the scratch and contribute back to the community earlier on...

++OH

Le 17/09/2010 07:38, ydegoyon@gmail.com a écrit :

...

it's just being realistic how many windows users will really use pd? or just make a lame download?

Dan Wilcox wrote:

...

Hoho, throwing down the gauntlet as usual. :D

On Sep 16, 2010, at 10:24 PM, ydegoyon@gmail.com mailto:ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:

...

ola,

...

...

> The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers?

)

...

...

...

do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

---

Dan Wilcox danomatika.com http://danomatika.com robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com

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Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into" windows. It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you "which OS please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool you choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more tolerant, and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but try to help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.

Andras

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.comwrote:

Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our limited resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to use/install/try these days.

2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:

...

ola,

...

...

...

The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers? ) do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

---

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I think it is great that PD is multi platform = more users for PD ;)

2010/9/17 Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.com

BTW SuperCollider did not released the 3.4 verion for Windows. Widows is just crappy for audio. That means more bugs and more issues to fix. more work for developers etc. The situation is that anyone can put a puredyne live-cd and work with pd/supercollider/whatever on any computer on earth.

2010/9/17 András Murányi muranyia@gmail.com:

...

Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into"

windows.

...

It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you "which

OS

...

please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool you choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more tolerant, and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but try

to

...

help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.

Andras

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros <

bernarTdobarros2@gmail.com>

...

wrote:

...

Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our limited resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to use/install/try these days.

2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:

...

ola,

...

...

> The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers?

)

...

...

...

do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

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-- Muranyi Andras

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Yes, I see the point. But maybe it's not all about the number of users, is it? Better quality software is more appealing then more people using it...

BTW, Microsoft is not that tolerant with other operating systems... Brazilian Government switched to free software a few years ago and they got INSANE because of the millions in royalties that they won't still any more from the people.

"innovation software does not happen in the hands of governments but the private sector."

(What it is not true because the private sector contributes a lot to linux anyway)

http://www.linuxtoday.com/infrastructure/2010091600435NWMS

http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/tec/798606-microsoft-critica-posicao-do-governo...

2010/9/17 Hans-Christoph Steiner hans@at.or.at:

Definitely!  I'd much rather demonstrate the benefits of free software, whether its on GNU/Linux or Windows, than beat people into submitting to free software whether they like it or not. When people make the choice themselves, then they are much more likely to stick with it, and then try to also bring other people along.  When they feel beaten into it, then they are much more likely to rebel.  That makes backlash. And then you have to admit that software is first and foremost a tool. And no one can truly deny that many things still work better on Windows (like video games). .hc On Sep 17, 2010, at 9:17 AM, András Murányi wrote:

Maybe i'm short of rationality, (and i may sound weird, please don't misunderstand) but for me it's like a race issue... we shall not discriminate windows users, because most of them were "born into" windows. It's not like you buy your first computer and the vendor asks you "which OS please?", and you have a 360 degree view of them you if you are cool you choose linux, and if you are a jerk you choose windows. Be more tolerant, and of course be happy that you are already "on the right side", but try to help those "on the dark side" rather than abandoning them. Just 2 cents.

Andras

On Fri, Sep 17, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Bernardo Barros bernardobarros2@gmail.com wrote:

...

Just stop losing energy with Windows. Better concentrate our limited resources.... Linux is better for audio anyway, and it's so easy to use/install/try these days.

2010/9/16 ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com:

...

ola,

...

...

...

The Windows package is still the most downloaded.

so what? that's where the big illusion stands ( having more customers? ) do you expect any of these to be great creators???

we'll see hey

sevy

---

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-- Muranyi Andras _______________________________________________ Pd-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list

---

'You people have such restrictive dress for women,’ she said, hobbling away in three inch heels and panty hose to finish out another pink-collar temp pool day.  - “Hijab Scene #2", by Mohja Kahf

--- On Fri, 9/17/10, ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com wrote:

From: ydegoyon@gmail.com ydegoyon@gmail.com Subject: Re: [PD] Pd-extended 0.42.5 release candidate 6 released! To: "Bernardo Barros" bernardobarros2@gmail.com Cc: "Pd List" pd-list@iem.at Date: Friday, September 17, 2010, 5:45 PM ola,

...

...

And no one can truly deny that many things still

work better on Windows (like

...

...

video games).

this is absolutely a non-argument ( or tautology ) as the programs developped for windows work better in windows yes... and viruses too...

there is no such thing as 'people born in windows', they can easily switch and that's what we do in all of our workshops as we say that the version for windows is limited and we cannot work with it.

saludos, sevy

I'd like to know more about how you switch people over in your workshops. Do you have them run GNU/linux on a live cd/dvd? Or is part of the workshop devoted to installing a free OS on their laptops?

-Jonathan

Hi,

On Wed, Sep 15, 2010 at 06:57:39PM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:

If Pd-extended 0.42.5 also looks at /usr/lib/pd, then someone could install Gem 0.93 there and Pd-extended would use it.

Doesn't Pd-extended also look somewhere in $HOME? What if a user installs Gem there?

Ciao

Frank