iohannes, thanks for the quick reply

From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at

i guess the first thing is that you should remove the ".pd_darwin" from the -lib flag: "-lib Gem.pd_darwin" will try to load "Gem.pd_darwin.pd_darwin" (on osX; on linux it would be Gem.pd_darwin.pd_linux)

ooops - that's not what it should do....

...

i've tried double quotes, same result is there a way to make pd accept a path with a space in the name???

this problem is rather with your operating system. try to escape the space like "Application\ Support"

this looks to me like max-message style escape codes instead of OS syntax in any case, just tried this: -lib "/Library/Application\ Support/Pd/Gem" and it renders the error: "/Library/Application\: can't load library

the path in the terminal is "/Library/Application Support/Pd/" (___with "") cd "/Library/Application Support/Pd/" in the terminal gets me there. with a .pdrc that looks like this: -lib "/Library/Application Support/Pd/Gem" the error is: "/Library/Application: can't load library

any other suggestions? i could of course always move everything into a path that doesn't have a space in the name, but i would prefer to have it installed in Application Support as that is where it belongs...

thanks again

rene

derek holzer wrote:

Hi Rene,

AFAICT, the problem actually is with your flags. The .pdrc should probably look like this:

-lib Gem -path /Library/Application\ Support/Pd/Gem

this should _not_ work. i you want to specify search-path and library-loading separately, you should specify the path _before_ the lib. like -path /bi/ba/bo -lib be

and not the other way round.

"-lib /bi/ba/bo/library" is perfectly ok (see also "geiger namespace")

this allows me to use development versions of libraries, even though the stable versions are in (e.g.) pd/extra

btw, the same works, if you are loading libraries from within patches: [/path/to/library/EXTERNAL]

mfg.asd.r IOhannes

Hi Rene,

Sorry about your troubles.

The suggestions to put something in /Applications/pd/Contents/Resources/extra is a good suggestion.

I suggest you try one of the installers that include Gem to see if you can get Gem to work:

at.or.at/hans "PD" "installers" as I recall

Or my pixelTANGO installer (less externals included, and more complex, but there is a cute exposed "extra" folder under /Applications/PixelTANGO/extra

http://tot.sat.qc.ca/down/pixeltango/binaries/PixelTANGO-v0.3.3G4.tgz

If these work then indeed it should be possible to do what your attemping and there is just some anoyance in the way, if they don't work then you should know now before you keep experimenting!

Oh and for the first installers on hans's page you need to start the Gem library manually. Go to "PD" -> "Preferences" -> "startup" and type "Gem" (without quotes) in the first available slot.

Also note that the standard way to do .pdrc stuff is now through the "startup" and "path" Also note that the "preferences" menu is not available unless you create an empty patch just after starting PD.

good luck.

B>

derek, thanks for the reply

...

AFAICT, the problem actually is with your flags. The .pdrc should probably look like this:

that's not how i read this instruction on the gem install page: "The Gem.pd_darwin file can be put anywhere in the filesystem if you put the following in the .pdrc file: -lib /path/to/Gem (like /Users/me/Library/Gem/Gem or /usr/local/lib/Gem and so on)."

but that might be just me...

...

I am still not sure how the OSX shell handles these things, but one of these combinations will surely give you victory.

the way os x handles them is quite simple: paths with a space in them have to be put in quotation marks - both single and double will work. try it in the terminal; cd '/Library/Application Support/' is the same as cd "/Library/Application Support/"

meanwhile, i've tried all of your suggestions unfortunately, all variants give a "Gem: can't load library" error

also, following these instructions (again from the gem install page): "Alternately, the Gem.pd_darwin file can be put in the extra folder inside the Pd app bundle. Right click (or crtl+click) on the pd app and select 'Show Package Contents', which opens a new Finder window. Navigate to Contents/Resources/extra and copy Gem.pd_darwin there. Add -lib Gem to the .pdrc file to load Gem."

opening package content of pd-0.38-3, in the Resources folder, there is no folder named extra. in fact, there are only 2 icns files there, nothing else. creating a folder named 'extra' and copying gem.pd_darwin there + having a single line in the .pdrc that says: -lib Gem also generates the "Gem: can't load library" error as does copying the library straight into Contents/Resources/

so, in short; following either of the installation instructions of gem step by step does not lead to a working installation my question is; is there anyone who's running os 10.3.x with pd 0.38-3 application bundle and who's managed to get gem to work? where did you install the library and what does your .pdrc look like?

thanks again rene

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rene beekman wrote:

but why does one need to create a patch first in order to get the preference menu????

because this is a bug ?

as for putting gem.pd_darwin in the extra folder; when using the separate distributions of both gem and pd, installing into the .app bundle makes updating needlessly cumbersome - this is the reason for the existence of the Application Support folder on os x....

maybe it would be a good idea, to add the Application Support folder to the standard search path for pd on osX. (but i don't know)

mfg,as.dr IOhannes

On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:04 AM, rene beekman wrote:

IOhannes m zmoelnig wrote:

...

...

as for putting gem.pd_darwin in the extra folder; when using the separate distributions of both gem and pd,
installing into the .app bundle makes updating needlessly
cumbersome - this is the reason for the existence of the
Application Support folder on os x....

maybe it would be a good idea, to add the Application Support
folder to the standard search path for pd on osX. (but i don't know)

more precisely a standard folder __within Application Support - so
full path would be something like "/Library/Application Support/Pd/" but sounds like a good idea to me

...when I first saw this, I wondered why you put this there? I don't
remember that being the "new" place to put things: I used to think I
kept up to date on all of the osx-specific changes, but apparently
somethings are missed...in any event, we used to (and I still do) use
"~/Library/Pd" to place externals...

jamie

On Jul 12, 2005, at 11:53 AM, rene beekman wrote:

james tittle wrote:

...

...

...

maybe it would be a good idea, to add the Application Support
folder to the standard search path for pd on osX. (but i don't
know)

more precisely a standard folder __within Application Support -
so full path would be something like "/Library/Application
Support/Pd/" but sounds like a good idea to me

...when I first saw this, I wondered why you put this there? I
don't remember that being the "new" place to put things: I used
to think I kept up to date on all of the osx-specific changes, but
apparently somethings are missed...in any event, we used to (and I
still do) use "~/Library/Pd" to place externals...

see <http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/ BPFileSystem/Articles/WhereToPutFiles.html>

...thanks, I'm familiar with developer docs...these are guidelines,
not decrees, and they basically say "put them in a subfolder of
either ~/Library or /Library", or whatever make sense...actually they
indicate that the "preferred location" is inside the app bundle, but
I think we're fine as is...

one can argue whether externals and libraries are plugins or
support files and where they should go.

...externals are compiled as bundles (-bundle -bundle_loader /where/ is/pd), which are "plugins"...

my choice was Application Support - but that also might be in part
because i'm used to cycling74 putting max externals there....

...wow, I'm glad you have a choice, but your choice caused you
problems...luckily, pd allows you to continue your c74 ingrained
behavior: just don't expect us to change pd to default to that...as
I said, the original location (at least for the last few years) has
been ~/Library/Pd: but go ahead and do whatever you feel!

james

rene

i think_ jamie was being light-hearted :-)

LOL

On Jul 12, 2005, at 3:22 PM, rene beekman wrote:

james tittle wrote:

...

...

my choice was Application Support - but that also might be in part because i'm used to cycling74 putting max externals there....

...wow, I'm glad you have a choice, but your choice caused you problems...luckily, pd allows you to continue your c74 ingrained behavior: just don't expect us to change pd to default to that...as I said, the original location (at least for the last few years) has been ~/Library/Pd: but go ahead and do whatever you feel!

i'm not about to make anyone do anything IOhannes made a careful suggestion that, maybe, it would be a good idea to ___add Application Support to the standard search path for the os x version of Pd. which i think is a good idea - for whatever that is worth

one can argue if it was my choice of location or pd's handling of .pdrcs with a path-with-a-space that caused the problem - i'll leave that up to others to debate.

anyway, seem to be stepping on toes here, so i'll take my "c74 ingrained behaviour" offline...

rene

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james tittle wrote:

...it's worth whatever...? Maybe it's worth checking the archives before you post to see if a subject has been discussed, I dunno...

from my first post today:

Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2005 11:01:08 +0300

[...]

i'm sure i'm not the first one to come up against this problem i've searched the archives, but have been unable to find anything other than a message about ubumenu installation on os x with a reference to spaces in paths being potential problems...

...oh c'mon, do you always dither when confronted with a contra-argument? I hope not, for your sake...it's just that I searched my archives and didn't see anywhere that you'd contributed code; yet all of a sudden you post stuff with an authoritative tone, and it just didn't make sense to me to agree :-)

ah, guess i missed the "have to contribute code before some of us can agree to whatever you say" note on the list subscription page...

...and please don't be so easily spooked away, "...words have never broken bones" and all that...

don't worry, you don't spook me that easily but attitudes get attitudes in return i'd love to be proven wrong in anything i say, but that is done with arguments, not with name-calling

1. Put Gem.pd_darwin into the extra folder (forgot the exact path, but you

must have been very close, it surely exists, just look around in the Pd folder)

2. a) Open a patch and create an object "Gem"

OR b) Open the Pd->About, then the Pd->Settings->Startup and put "Gem" in the first line there. Press "Save all Settings" and restart Pd. OR c) use the deprecated .pdrc (-lib Gem)

Check the terminal window for the GEM: startup message. I normally tell people to use 1) followed by 2b). Unfortunately the settings menu has a nasty bug that won't let you open the Startup submenu, but this goes away as soon as you opened the "About" menu entry.

Guenter

On Tue, 12 Jul 2005, rene beekman wrote:

derek, thanks for the reply

...

AFAICT, the problem actually is with your flags. The .pdrc should probably look like this:

that's not how i read this instruction on the gem install page: "The Gem.pd_darwin file can be put anywhere in the filesystem if you put the following in the .pdrc file: -lib /path/to/Gem (like /Users/me/Library/Gem/Gem or /usr/local/lib/Gem and so on)."

but that might be just me...

...

I am still not sure how the OSX shell handles these things, but one of these combinations will surely give you victory.

the way os x handles them is quite simple: paths with a space in them have to be put in quotation marks - both single and double will work. try it in the terminal; cd '/Library/Application Support/' is the same as cd "/Library/Application Support/"

meanwhile, i've tried all of your suggestions unfortunately, all variants give a "Gem: can't load library" error

also, following these instructions (again from the gem install page): "Alternately, the Gem.pd_darwin file can be put in the extra folder inside the Pd app bundle. Right click (or crtl+click) on the pd app and select 'Show Package Contents', which opens a new Finder window. Navigate to Contents/Resources/extra and copy Gem.pd_darwin there. Add -lib Gem to the .pdrc file to load Gem."

opening package content of pd-0.38-3, in the Resources folder, there is no folder named extra. in fact, there are only 2 icns files there, nothing else. creating a folder named 'extra' and copying gem.pd_darwin there + having a single line in the .pdrc that says: -lib Gem also generates the "Gem: can't load library" error as does copying the library straight into Contents/Resources/

so, in short; following either of the installation instructions of gem step by step does not lead to a working installation my question is; is there anyone who's running os 10.3.x with pd 0.38-3 application bundle and who's managed to get gem to work? where did you install the library and what does your .pdrc look like?

thanks again rene

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Jacob Last wrote:

Hi All--

I apologize if this isn't the appropriate list for this

question...please guide.

the list is perfect for such questions. but:

• please give some clues about the contents of your mail in the

"Subject"; they have invented it just for this; probably a lot of users who have experience with your problem (sound, alsa, linux) will not read it, if they see a subject that only mentions "Gem, installation, OS-X" otoh, a lot of people get annoyed because they want to read about getting Gem run on osX but have to read about your problem.

• please do not hijack other threads. if you want to start a new

threadon this list, simply write an email to "pd-list@iem.at"; do _not_ reply to a (more of less) randomly chosen email that came from this list.

This is my first post to the PD list. I'm sure that I will be here for

...

myself). The audio chipset is intel8x0. Anyone have any clues?

i only vaguely remember, that my old (and now broken) laptop had the same chipset and i had problems with OSS; none with ALSA, iirc (ok, this won't help you) which exact version of pd are you using (i don't know which one is packed with planetCCRMA) ?

is compiling pd yourself an option for you ?

mfg.a.sdr IOhannes

Jacob Last wrote:

I believe the PD version in CCRMA is 0.37.1. I think I will try compiling the sources next...what version is recommended? Is there any reason not to go with 0.38-4? or CVS?

i would go with 0.38-4 there have been some stability issues with it, so if you experience any problems try to go back to 0.37-4.

but 0.38 has a lot of improvements, esp. with the ALSA-code. however, i think you should apply the wini's alsamm patch. (to be found at http://sf.net/projects/pure-data section "patches")

mfg.asd.r IOhannes

rene beekman wrote:

iohannes, thanks for the quick reply

From: IOhannes m zmoelnig zmoelnig@iem.at

...

i guess the first thing is that you should remove the ".pd_darwin" from the -lib flag: "-lib Gem.pd_darwin" will try to load "Gem.pd_darwin.pd_darwin" (on osX; on linux it would be Gem.pd_darwin.pd_linux)

ooops - that's not what it should do....

...

...

i've tried double quotes, same result is there a way to make pd accept a path with a space in the name???

this problem is rather with your operating system. try to escape the space like "Application\ Support"

this looks to me like max-message style escape codes instead of OS syntax in any case, just tried this:

well, it is normal bash-escaping.

and i have to apologize for accusing your OS instead of pd: indeed it is a problem with pd's parsing of the .pdrc-file.

-lib "/Library/Application\ Support/Pd/Gem" and it renders the error: "/Library/Application\: can't load library

the path in the terminal is "/Library/Application Support/Pd/" (___with "") cd "/Library/Application Support/Pd/" in the terminal gets me there. with a .pdrc that looks like this: -lib "/Library/Application Support/Pd/Gem" the error is: "/Library/Application: can't load library

any other suggestions?

speaking of "parsing of .pdrc": does it help if you use the pd-settings mechanism ? (although i doubt)

i could of course always move everything into a path that doesn't have a space in the name, but i would prefer to have it installed in Application Support as that is where it belongs...

at least you could make a link, like #> ln -s "/Library/Application\ Support" /Library/Application_Support

mfg.asd.r IOhannes