Quoting derek holzer derek@x-i.net:
hello Alexandre,
hi
if price is an issue for you then you might consider getting an IPAQ. I'm running PDa on a 5000 series IPAQ (5550 to be precise), but you can get older ones with slightly different hardware pretty cheap these days. See my install notes here:
http://iem.kug.ac.at/mailinglists/pd-list/2005-03/026706.html
Any MIDI you do would have to be over the serial port, but I am sure it's possible. Same with the Stamp chip. See here for some stuff on external control of PDa:
http://gige.xdv.org/pda/ICMC2003.pdf
I don't know much about the Zaurus ones (except that they're pricey), but I think both Guenter and IOhannes have them, so maybe they will give a shout out here soon.
Last thing is that there's probably not much technically preventing PDa from being compiled for windoze, so if you can hack that then you could run it on the operating system of the beast. ;-)
LOL
best, derek
I had the feeling you would be the first one to reply on this subject ;)
do you run familiar on the Ipaq or is there a better option?
Alexandre Matheson wrote:
Hello,
I'm planning to purchace a PDA but have a couple of questions. I will be using PDa on it(http://gige.xdv.org/pages/pd/) so it must have a linux
based
os. I was thinking of geting something from the sharp Zaurus line
running
OpenZaurus.
the SL-C3000 would be sweet but the os has not been completely
translated
to
english and is a bit pricey. http://www.bargainpda.com/ default.asp?newsID=237
the SL C1000 seems to be my best bet
I was wondering if midi was available on these devices. Also I would
like
PDa to be able to communicate with a basic stamp.
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 2: "A line has two sides"
howdy,
I had the feeling you would be the first one to reply on this subject
Maybe just 'cause I'm pretty deep into it myself right now ;-)
do you run familiar on the Ipaq or is there a better option?
Yes, I'm running Familiar 0.8.1 right now. Again, see my install notes for details. There are some idiosyncracies in the audio that should be resolved in 0.8.2 (namely no ALSA support!)
http://iem.kug.ac.at/mailinglists/pd-list/2005-03/026706.html
There is another distro called Intimate for Ipaq that uses all standard Debian ARM packages, but it is pretty much dead in the water for more than a year, so kernel support for newer Ipaqs isn't really there. I'm curious myself how easy it would be to include Debian repositories in the list of package sources for Familiar. They are supposed to be compatible, but I don't know what kind of a mess the dependencies will become. I'll look into it soon.
Sometimes I wished there was a good Gentoo for ARM... big problem would be how to actually compile anything in less than 5 years on an Ipaq! There are technically Gentoo-ARM and Gentoo-embedded trees, and a Gentoo netboot, but it's barely wearing it's first pair of shoes:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/arm/
See also:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-8090.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=1341859
and Gentoo for Zaurus, if you are really a Gentoo junkie:
http://gentooforzaurus.opensistemas.com/ http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-124018.html
The core of Familiar is Open Embedded, which may be less "user friendly" than Opie or GPE Familiar, but more flexible:
More ARM info:
And another kind of ARM portable is here:
;-)
I think this new development of ARM as a standard for portable computing is really exciting, as we can expect loads of PDAs, mobile phones, game units and other stuff to be using this processor in the near future. Whatever ground gets broken now for "reclaiming" it with Linux and running stuff like PDa on it sets a real precedent for what is possible later on as far as mobile multimedia. Rock on!
best, derek
On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 22:12, derek holzer wrote:
There is another distro called Intimate for Ipaq that uses all standard Debian ARM packages, but it is pretty much dead in the water for more than a year, so kernel support for newer Ipaqs isn't really there.
Kernel support is largely unrelated to the distribution you run on top of the kernel. The kernel will always be one from handhelds.org CVS.
Sometimes I wished there was a good Gentoo for ARM... big problem would be how to actually compile anything in less than 5 years on an Ipaq!
The answer to this is and has always been cross compilation. Gentoo doesn't support that (yet?).
The core of Familiar is Open Embedded, which may be less "user friendly" than Opie or GPE Familiar, but more flexible:
You are confusing "GUI environment", distribution, and build system here.
Opie and GPE are "GUI environments". They provide the user interface to the system.
Familiar is a distribution. Familiar provides you with pre-built images you can flash onto your handheld and numerous packages to install later.
OpenEmbedded is the build system that's used to build Familar (and Openzaurus and ...). It's basically a set of tools and package description files that allow you to build a distribution (i.e. a set of packages and images) from scratch (including the toolchain and everything cross compilation related).
You've called for a "good Gentoo for ARM" (which may never actually become a reality). OpenEmbedded provides you with the same possibilities today.
The package description format will look quite similar to that used by Gentoo portage and building stuff is just as easy (or difficult for that matter).
In fact, OpenEmbedded is based on Gentoo portage (although most of the code base has probably been re-written by now). Think of it as portage plus cross compilation support plus other goodies.
So, if you want to build your system from sources you can do that with OpenEmbedded. The same is true for rolling your own distribution.
Rene
Hi Rene,
Glad to see you're still hanging around here, and thx for the clarifications. I got the impression that Open Embedded was very Gentoo-like in my research, but I'm still learning this stuff like a lot of us here. A question, then: how well does Familiar support Debian ARM binaries in practice? You mentioned in an earlier mail on the PDa topic that cross-compatibility was maintained for Familiar, but not for Open Zaurus, but I haven't found much mention anywhere (on Handhelds.org or Familiar list) of using Debian packages on Familiar. Just how much of a mess does this make?
d.
Rene Wagner wrote:
You are confusing "GUI environment", distribution, and build system here.
Opie and GPE are "GUI environments". They provide the user interface to the system.
Familiar is a distribution. Familiar provides you with pre-built images you can flash onto your handheld and numerous packages to install later.
OpenEmbedded is the build system that's used to build Familar (and Openzaurus and ...). It's basically a set of tools and package description files that allow you to build a distribution (i.e. a set of packages and images) from scratch (including the toolchain and everything cross compilation related).
On Tue, 2005-03-29 at 23:37 +0200, derek holzer wrote:
A question, then: how well does Familiar support Debian ARM binaries in practice? You mentioned in an earlier mail on the PDa topic that cross-compatibility was maintained for Familiar, but not for Open Zaurus, but I haven't found much mention anywhere (on Handhelds.org or Familiar list) of using Debian packages on Familiar. Just how much of a mess does this make?
The issue is twofold:
- First of all Familiar does indeed retain binary compatibility with Debian/ARM for now. So, you can take a binary from a Debian/ARM package and run it on a Familiar system. However, that is not strictly guaranteed to work. Libraries may have been built with different compile time options which other applications in either Debian or Familiar rely on.
- Secondly you probably want to install .debs directly. I don't think ipkg support apt repositories but I have been told you can download a .deb manually and install it with ipkg. Dependencies may or may not match, so you may need a --force-depends or similar.
It all depends on which package you want to install. Give it a try - YMMV.
Rene
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005, Rene Wagner wrote:
So, if you want to build your system from sources you can do that with OpenEmbedded. The same is true for rolling your own distribution.
Hi,
.. in order to make that possible I have put the .bb files (or bbs ?) on my website:
http://gige.xdv.org/pda/release/openembedded/
These are not the final versions, expecially tk still has a very ugly hack in it (the font.patch file). For the rest I don't know if I have done it the right way, comments welcome.
As to the general topic of the thread: I think I didn't get all the messages, but I would be happy to put the experiences that people have with different device on my website, expanding the FAQ.
Cheers,
Guenter
On Wed, 2005-03-30 at 18:07 +0200, gÃŒnter geiger wrote:
.. in order to make that possible I have put the .bb files (or bbs ?) on my website:
http://gige.xdv.org/pda/release/openembedded/
These are not the final versions, expecially tk still has a very ugly hack in it (the font.patch file). For the rest I don't know if I have done it the right way, comments welcome.
Thanks. I'll look into adding those to OE at the weekend.
Regards,
Rene
This is more than helpfull, Thank you very much.
Quoting derek holzer derek@x-i.net:
howdy,
I had the feeling you would be the first one to reply on this subject
Maybe just 'cause I'm pretty deep into it myself right now ;-)
do you run familiar on the Ipaq or is there a better option?
Yes, I'm running Familiar 0.8.1 right now. Again, see my install notes for details. There are some idiosyncracies in the audio that should be resolved in 0.8.2 (namely no ALSA support!)
http://iem.kug.ac.at/mailinglists/pd-list/2005-03/026706.html
There is another distro called Intimate for Ipaq that uses all standard Debian ARM packages, but it is pretty much dead in the water for more than a year, so kernel support for newer Ipaqs isn't really there. I'm curious myself how easy it would be to include Debian repositories in the list of package sources for Familiar. They are supposed to be compatible, but I don't know what kind of a mess the dependencies will become. I'll look into it soon.
Sometimes I wished there was a good Gentoo for ARM... big problem would be how to actually compile anything in less than 5 years on an Ipaq! There are technically Gentoo-ARM and Gentoo-embedded trees, and a Gentoo netboot, but it's barely wearing it's first pair of shoes:
http://dev.gentoo.org/~vapier/arm/
See also:
http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-8090.html http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic.php?p=1341859
and Gentoo for Zaurus, if you are really a Gentoo junkie:
http://gentooforzaurus.opensistemas.com/ http://forums.gentoo.org/viewtopic-t-124018.html
The core of Familiar is Open Embedded, which may be less "user friendly" than Opie or GPE Familiar, but more flexible:
More ARM info:
And another kind of ARM portable is here:
;-)
I think this new development of ARM as a standard for portable computing is really exciting, as we can expect loads of PDAs, mobile phones, game units and other stuff to be using this processor in the near future. Whatever ground gets broken now for "reclaiming" it with Linux and running stuff like PDa on it sets a real precedent for what is possible later on as far as mobile multimedia. Rock on!
best, derek
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 52: "Do nothing for as long as possible"
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://iem.at/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/pd-list
-
Alexandre Matheson -
derek holzer -
g�nter geiger -
Rene Wagner