Pd tries to use the same standard font across all platforms as of around 0.48 or 0.49. In 0.52, we now included the italic and bold versions of DejaVu Sans Mono as well. On macOS, we use a DVSM derivative, Menlo, which is included on the system itself. Details are here:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/master/font https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/master/font
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close. The relative sizing of objects and GUIs should be very similar, however not *pixel-perfect*. This is down to small differences in how Tk renderings things on the canvas via the underlying system graphics frameworks. We also imported the tried-and-true object sizing tweaks honed in pd-extended around the same time to help ensure more consistent sizing.
That being said, I would basically suggest approach layouts with a bit of padding here and here and don't overlying focus on exact pixel alignment of things. GOPs are generally fine regarding sizing etc. There is also a text patch with all the GUIs you can use to compare on different systems:
Help->Browser : Pure Data/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd
I would also ask Alex and the cyclone team as they have deployed a standard help-file format and pushed for some of the required changes in this area.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:06 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
(Ps any pointer on how to unify looks between OSes welcome - I found some online, mostly moaning about fonts :)
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Oh, one thing I've forgotten about: the default font is bold on Windows and Linux which normal weight on macOS.
This is historical but I believe is also due to the font rendering on macOS using antialiasing which gives the normal font a similar draw size as the bold fonts on the other platforms (slightly a guess here). Another possible reason is that the bold fonts render "better" on Windows and Linux which normal renders "better" on macOS. Some have called for making them all the same but it's been a precedent I don't feel worth changing at least without a broad consensus of users. "If it ain't broke..."
On Jan 28, 2022, at 12:47 PM, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Pd tries to use the same standard font across all platforms as of around 0.48 or 0.49. In 0.52, we now included the italic and bold versions of DejaVu Sans Mono as well. On macOS, we use a DVSM derivative, Menlo, which is included on the system itself. Details are here:
https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/master/font https://github.com/pure-data/pure-data/tree/master/font
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close. The relative sizing of objects and GUIs should be very similar, however not *pixel-perfect*. This is down to small differences in how Tk renderings things on the canvas via the underlying system graphics frameworks. We also imported the tried-and-true object sizing tweaks honed in pd-extended around the same time to help ensure more consistent sizing.
That being said, I would basically suggest approach layouts with a bit of padding here and here and don't overlying focus on exact pixel alignment of things. GOPs are generally fine regarding sizing etc. There is also a text patch with all the GUIs you can use to compare on different systems:
Help->Browser : Pure Data/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd
I would also ask Alex and the cyclone team as they have deployed a standard help-file format and pushed for some of the required changes in this area.
On Jan 27, 2022, at 8:06 PM, pd-list-request@lists.iem.at mailto:pd-list-request@lists.iem.at wrote:
(Ps any pointer on how to unify looks between OSes welcome - I found some online, mostly moaning about fonts :)
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Thanks Dan for this comprehensive reply.
Pd tries to use the same standard font across all platforms as of around 0.48 or 0.49. In 0.52, we now included the italic and bold versions of DejaVu Sans Mono as well.
Highly appreciated.
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close.
It was close enough indeed, except on Ubuntu 18 which makes a complete mess. It might be on my side too.
There is also a text patch with all the GUIs you can use to compare on different systems: Help->Browser : Pure Data/7.stuff/tools/sizingtest.pd
This is good to know - I now have Parallels running with Windows10 and Ubuntu20 in MacOS so I can see in realtime what they look like.
I would also ask Alex and the cyclone team as they have deployed a standard help-file format and pushed for some of the required changes in this area.
Oh that is a great pointer - I’ll try to reach for him as I’d like to get it right (or at least get challenged by their requests :) - I presume they opened a project/pr on GitHub? I’ll check them out.
Oh, one thing I've forgotten about: the default font is bold on Windows and Linux which normal weight on macOS.
I read about it and it looks a bit different but not enough to cause issues with Menlo/DejaVu
Thanks again for the extensive response!
Check the actual font used by setting Log level 4 All and compare "detected font" with "using font." On Linux, Pd doesn't include the font itself, so it relies on DVSM being installed to the system and Tk finding it when the GUI opens. If it can't find DVSM, it reverts to a series of backup fonts starting with the old default of Courier.
On Jan 28, 2022, at 1:11 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay tremblap@gmail.com wrote:
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close.
It was close enough indeed, except on Ubuntu 18 which makes a complete mess. It might be on my side too.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika http://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
Oh this is good - now I presume many other patches one someone’s machine will look awful if their Linux doesn’t find the font, so I shouldn’t feel too bad. I’ll make sure they look decent with what I can expect from v0.48
Thanks!
On 28 Jan 2022, at 13:32, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check the actual font used by setting Log level 4 All and compare "detected font" with "using font." On Linux, Pd doesn't include the font itself, so it relies on DVSM being installed to the system and Tk finding it when the GUI opens. If it can't find DVSM, it reverts to a series of backup fonts starting with the old default of Courier.
On Jan 28, 2022, at 1:11 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay tremblap@gmail.com wrote:
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close.
It was close enough indeed, except on Ubuntu 18 which makes a complete mess. It might be on my side too.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
v0.48
According to the release notes (http://msp.ucsd.edu/Pd_documentation/x5.htm#s1), the font handling changes have been introduced in 0.48-1.
Christof
On 28.01.2022 15:04, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay wrote:
Oh this is good - now I presume many other patches one someone’s machine will look awful if their Linux doesn’t find the font, so I shouldn’t feel too bad. I’ll make sure they look decent with what I can expect from v0.48
Thanks!
On 28 Jan 2022, at 13:32, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check the actual font used by setting Log level 4 All and compare "detected font" with "using font." On Linux, Pd doesn't include the font itself, so it relies on DVSM being installed to the system and Tk finding it when the GUI opens. If it can't find DVSM, it reverts to a series of backup fonts starting with the old default of Courier.
On Jan 28, 2022, at 1:11 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay tremblap@gmail.com wrote:
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close.
It was close enough indeed, except on Ubuntu 18 which makes a complete mess. It might be on my side too.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
Pd-list@lists.iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> https://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
You can set the font using -font-family on the command line. Also, I wouldn’t take that approach as Pd packages on Linux distros *should* have DejaVu Sans Mono as a dependency. If they don’t, the problem lies with the packaging and not with Pd.
enohp ym morf tnes
Dan Wilcox danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
On Jan 28, 2022, at 3:04 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay tremblap@gmail.com wrote:
Oh this is good - now I presume many other patches one someone’s machine will look awful if their Linux doesn’t find the font, so I shouldn’t feel too bad. I’ll make sure they look decent with what I can expect from v0.48
Thanks!
On 28 Jan 2022, at 13:32, Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com wrote:
Check the actual font used by setting Log level 4 All and compare "detected font" with "using font." On Linux, Pd doesn't include the font itself, so it relies on DVSM being installed to the system and Tk finding it when the GUI opens. If it can't find DVSM, it reverts to a series of backup fonts starting with the old default of Courier.
On Jan 28, 2022, at 1:11 PM, Pierre Alexandre Tremblay tremblap@gmail.com wrote:
The result is that if you make a patch on one system with the standard font and open it on another with the same or ver similar (macOS)-sized font, the rendering should be very close.
It was close enough indeed, except on Ubuntu 18 which makes a complete mess. It might be on my side too.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika danomatika.com robotcowboy.com
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Christof Ressi -
Dan Wilcox -
Pierre Alexandre Tremblay