From: Alexandre Torres Porres <porres@gmail.com mailto:porres@gmail.com>
I have the idea that extended's development was highly centralized, not that I mean to imply that this was the intention, but it seems to me that's how it went, so when it was abandoned, it was hard to take it further - I might be totally wrong in my analysis so please feel free to correct me.
It was the fact that extended:
- largely relied on the efforts of 1 person
- was hard to build, as Jonathan mentioned
- was largely centralized (not a huge deal as anyone could get SVN access if they really wanted it)
- largely diverged from Pd vanilla to the point where it would be pretty difficult to integrate new versions of vanilla, especially if you are not “the 1 person” with the knowledge
But most of all, nobody stepped up to keep it going. There was plenty of wringing of hands but no real effort in the end. I considered it, but I much prefer the new approach of decentralized, easy to build externals and a more robust vanilla, as opposed to me becoming the “extended guy”.
What I wanna say is that I just hope more people get involved and collaborate with Purr Data and Pd-L2ork, so it benefits from an actual community effort where development happens faster.
Sure. I would point out that this was the intent of Pd-extended as well. I hope that Purr Data will find a way to overcome extended problems 1 & 4, if it hasn’t already.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
2016-09-29 23:35 GMT-03:00 Dan Wilcox danomatika@gmail.com:
But most of all, nobody stepped up to keep it going. There was plenty of wringing of hands but no real effort in the end. I considered it, but I much prefer the new approach of decentralized, easy to build externals and a more robust vanilla, as opposed to me becoming the “extended guy”.
Well, one good thing to point is that Pd-L2ork (and its Purr Data branch) started as a fork from Extended (from 0.42-5 may I guess?). So it's not like it died for nothing and, in a sense, Purr Data still keeps it going.
And I have to agree that good stuff came out of it when it was possible to focus attention into vanilla, to make it more robust, and the efforts on pd-lib-builder/deken to make it easier to build and install externals.
In fact, for me, the biggest deal in extended was all the extended libraries, but most of them were just abandoned... what good is that? Where I'm getting at is that one way to get involved and help in the "expanded Pd flavours" could be taking care of libraries. Like updating cyclone objects to max 7 :)
cheers
Well, one good thing to point is that Pd-L2ork (and its Purr Data branch) started as a fork from Extended (from 0.42-5 may I guess?). So it's not like it died for nothing and, in a sense, Purr Data still keeps it going.
Spiritual successor. :)
In fact, for me, the biggest deal in extended was all the extended libraries, but most of them were just abandoned... what good is that?
They were not abandoned. IOhannes split the centralized subversion repo into separate git repos, one for each external: http://git.puredata.info/cgit/ http://git.puredata.info/cgit/
One of the great things about extended was that it came with all externals. One of the bad things about extended is that it came with all the externals. Why is that bad? It made building extended a long and arduous process. It also made the community overly rely on the work of too few people. Most of those people burnt out and or moved on, thus extended died.
The goal of deken and pd-lib-builder is to make it much easier to not rely on one or two people bundling everything into a single release. The idea is to spread the development efforts out. If things seemed abandoned, it’s because the community has not completely picked up the slack yet.
The simplest way to help would be to clone a bunch of externals, add pd-lib-build to they can build, then uplaod them somewhere, say to GItHub or back to git.pure.info http://git.pure.info/. Then put out a build party call for people of differing operating systems to clone and build the external then upload the built package to deken.
Where I'm getting at is that one way to get involved and help in the "expanded Pd flavours" could be taking care of libraries. Like updating cyclone objects to max 7 :)
You know exactly how this works, having stepped up and continued cyclone development. We just need a few more Porres’.
Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
They were not abandoned. IOhannes split the centralized subversion repo into separate git repos, one for each external: http://git.puredata.info/cgit/
what I meant is this, if you check it in here
http://puredata.info/docs/LibrariesInPdExtended/
Most of the libraries were officially maintained by Hans, and I figure cause original maintainers did abandoned development for them, like it happened to cyclone as I can infer. Then when Hans stepped out, the vast majority of these seemed to simply have been left orphans. Not to mention some that were already "Unsupported, Included Libraries" in Extended and even "Libraries Which Are Being Removed In 0.43" with the remark that if they were to be brought back, maintainers were needed ("There are various reasons that some libraries are probably best not included. If you believe otherwise, you can take on the maintenance of these libraries").
This leaves a handful of supported libraries in the midst of almost 100 of them. And let me add that being listed there as supported is not a guarantee they are being in active development/maintenance, causeI tried reaching bsaylor, for instance, and got the answer that there wasn't time to work on it...
I know they are still out there, waiting to be taken care of. And what I'm saying is that maybe a priority on bringing back a spiritual sucessor to extended would be having libraries in active maintenance/development.
You know exactly how this works, having stepped up and continued cyclone development. We just need a few more Porres’.
haha... yeah, and more of Fred Jans too, as he's been stepping in and taking care of a handful of other libraries. We needed quite a few i'd say.
But not sure what to do in order to promote this other than chatting about it here :)
cheers
Well, one good thing to point is that Pd-L2ork (and its Purr Data branch) started as a fork from Extended (from 0.42-5 may I guess?). So it's not like it died for nothing and, in a sense, Purr Data still keeps it going.
Spiritual successor. :)
It is also a technical successor. Like Pd-l2ork it builds on and extends the usability improvements Hans and others put into Extended. -Jonathan
Sure. I would point out that this was the intent of Pd-extended as well. I hope that Purr Data will find a way to overcome extended problems 1 & 4, if it hasn’t already.
#1 Before I began porting the GUI, matju reduced the total number of sys_vgui calls by about half.Matt Barber did a lot of work to get the OSX app bundle up and running and to spot and fix regressions.Albert Graef has pushed code to improve the build system, get things building on Arch, and many other improvements. #2Ivica backported [array], [text], and a lot of the other recent stuff from Pd Vanilla, and I've ported all of that into Purr Data. -Jonathan
Cool :)
Dan Wilcox @danomatika https://twitter.com/danomatika danomatika.com http://danomatika.com/ robotcowboy.com http://robotcowboy.com/
On Sep 30, 2016, at 8:32 AM, Jonathan Wilkes jancsika@yahoo.com wrote:
Sure. I would point out that this was the intent of Pd-extended as well. I hope that Purr Data will find a way to overcome extended problems 1 & 4, if it hasn’t already.
#1 Before I began porting the GUI, matju reduced the total number of sys_vgui calls by about half. Matt Barber did a lot of work to get the OSX app bundle up and running and to spot and fix regressions. Albert Graef has pushed code to improve the build system, get things building on Arch, and many other improvements.
#2 Ivica backported [array], [text], and a lot of the other recent stuff from Pd Vanilla, and I've ported all of that into Purr Data.
-Jonathan
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Alexandre Torres Porres -
Dan Wilcox -
Jonathan Wilkes