Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd-extended
on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera,
which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work either.
I was just testing today on Ubuntu Edgy 6.10 and yesterday on Debian
etch 4.0.
(hint: the easy way to spot Bitstream Vera/DejaVu is the bottom of
the lowercase l curves to the right in a big way).
.hc
Terrorism is not an enemy. It cannot be defeated. It's a tactic.
It's about as sensible to say we declare war on night attacks and
expect we're going to win that war. We're not going to win the war
on terrorism. - retired U.S. Army general, William Odom
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd-extended
on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera,
which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work either.
Try Courier. ;)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
I just installed extended 0.39.2-RC1 on Ubuntu 7.04 PPC via the debian/testing package, which seems to work (?!), and yes, the Deja Vu font works and looks very nice = )
c
On 5/17/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd-extended on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera, which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work either.
Try Courier. ;)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On May 17, 2007, at 3:01 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd-extended on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera, which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work
either.Try Courier. ;)
I would have left it at courier, but from my tests, Courier is not
the same font on each platform. There were notable differences in
size and shape across platforms.
This is the last hang-up, the current nightly build is pixel exact on
all the measures I did, except on Mac OS X the font is 1 pixel lower
in the object box. I think I can fix that too.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd-extended on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera, which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work
either.Try Courier. ;)
I would have left it at courier, but from my tests, Courier is not
the same font on each platform. There were notable differences in
size and shape across platforms.This is the last hang-up, the current nightly build is pixel exact on
all the measures I did, except on Mac OS X the font is 1 pixel lower
in the object box. I think I can fix that too.
I was just joking with that Courier.
I had downloaded the latest autobuild and I get the Vera font just fine (compared to a Vim set to the same font).
However I hate to bring this up again, but better now then never:
Would you reconsider your choice of a skinny font?
I still would prefer a bold font. I am absolutely not, in no way, able to read the normal font as comfortable as the Bt Vera Bold I use in Vim and rxvt. And yes: I tried to use a normal font with Vim etc. in the past as well, but it just doesn't work for my eyesight. Maybe IOhannes feels the same.
The normal font for me also blends with the borders too much. I'm not saying this for aesthetic, but for purely ergonomical reason: I'm not able to use this version of Pd-extended, because the anorexic font literally hurts after a while.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On May 17, 2007, at 9:38 AM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Has anyone been able to get the DejaVu font to work with Pd- extended on GNU/Linux? I just switched the default font to Bitstream Vera, which comes with GNOME and maybe KDE. I can't get that to work either.
Try Courier. ;)
I would have left it at courier, but from my tests, Courier is not the same font on each platform. There were notable differences in size and shape across platforms.
This is the last hang-up, the current nightly build is pixel exact on all the measures I did, except on Mac OS X the font is 1 pixel lower in the object box. I think I can fix that too.
I was just joking with that Courier.
I had downloaded the latest autobuild and I get the Vera font just fine (compared to a Vim set to the same font).
However I hate to bring this up again, but better now then never:
Would you reconsider your choice of a skinny font?
I still would prefer a bold font. I am absolutely not, in no way, able to read the normal font as comfortable as the Bt Vera Bold I use in Vim and rxvt. And yes: I tried to use a normal font with Vim etc. in the past as well, but it just doesn't work for my eyesight. Maybe IOhannes feels the same.
The normal font for me also blends with the borders too much. I'm not saying this for aesthetic, but for purely ergonomical reason: I'm not able to use this version of Pd-extended, because the anorexic font literally hurts after a while.
The font actually isn't a skinny font, it's a standard weight font.
Or at least it should be showing up that way. Let me know if it is
not. It is the exact same font that GNOME and KDE use by default for
any fixed width text AFAIK.
I did a survey of applications on GNOME/Debian, GNOME/Ubuntu, Windows
and Mac OS X. Bold fonts are only used for highlights everywhere
that I looked. I think it is important that Pd also follow these
established standards, so that's why I went with a normal weight
font. Max/MSP and jMax also use a normal weight font. So in effect,
I feel I am not making this decision, instead I found it quite
difficult to continue using a bold font when nothing else did.
That is not to discount your issue with the font. Ideally, each user
could set their own font to their needs. That will take more work,
but it's within reach. I already did some work along those lines
which I will be submitting to Miller. I made all the C code use
sys_font, set in s_main.c (before the font was set in many places).
Also, it's possible to change the fonts in bin/pd.tk without
recompiling, but that won't change all of them. Anywhere you see
"{{Bitstream Vera Sans Mono} 12 normal}", change that to "{{Bitstream
Vera Sans Mono} 12 bold}".
One easy thing that might help you is using a bigger font. This
regexp will replace the 10 point with 12 point on any Pd patch:
sed 's/^(#N canvas [0-9]* [0-9]* [0-9]* [0-9]*) 10/\1 12/'
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/ listinfo/pd-list
¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I did a survey of applications on GNOME/Debian, GNOME/Ubuntu, Windows
and Mac OS X. Bold fonts are only used for highlights everywhere
that I looked.
Pd doesn't have different font weights anyway.
I think it is important that Pd also follow these established standards, so that's why I went with a normal weight font. Max/MSP and jMax also use a normal weight font. So in effect, I feel I am not making this decision, instead I found it quite difficult to continue using a bold font when nothing else did.
The IMO well designed Ableton Live uses bold a lot, most prominently in their grid boxes. On stage normal weight is not easy to read at all.
That is not to discount your issue with the font. Ideally, each user
could set their own font to their needs. That will take more work,
but it's within reach.
I don't want to force everyone to use the same font weights that I prefer either.
But what I don't understand: Why not let the default for now be bold like in the past years and make normal weight optional for later?
While many people complained about the Courier font sizes, I've never heard anyone complain about the bold weight. To me it seems dropping bold is like fixing something that wasn't broken[*], and doing it just because so far Pd dared to be different from Max, jMax or Gnome IMO is not convincing enough. That's probably the crucial point where we disagree.
One easy thing that might help you is using a bigger font.
Font size is a completely different issue. I don't have a problem with size 10 in the Pd I'm currently using, and I use 11 normally in xterm and Vim. (Font size 12 in Pd/Linux is a problem for other reasons as well, as it takes away too much patching area.)
[*] (I'm ignoring here that pd-extended now is broken for me.)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On May 17, 2007, at 7:07 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
I did a survey of applications on GNOME/Debian, GNOME/Ubuntu, Windows and Mac OS X. Bold fonts are only used for highlights everywhere that I looked.
Pd doesn't have different font weights anyway.
I think it is important that Pd also follow these established standards, so that's why I went with a normal weight font. Max/MSP and jMax also use a normal weight font. So in effect, I feel I am not making this decision, instead I found it quite difficult to continue using a bold font when nothing else did.
The IMO well designed Ableton Live uses bold a lot, most prominently in their grid boxes. On stage normal weight is not easy to read at all.
That is not to discount your issue with the font. Ideally, each user could set their own font to their needs. That will take more work, but it's within reach.
I don't want to force everyone to use the same font weights that I prefer either.
But what I don't understand: Why not let the default for now be bold like in the past years and make normal weight optional for later?
While many people complained about the Courier font sizes, I've never heard anyone complain about the bold weight. To me it seems dropping bold is like fixing something that wasn't broken[*], and doing it just because so far Pd dared to be different from Max, jMax or Gnome IMO is not convincing enough. That's probably the crucial point where we disagree.
AFAIK, it's well known that bold text is bad for reading. Having
paragraphs of text in bold makes for slow reading, IMHO. Pd help
patches should have text in them. That's what started this for me.
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.
One easy thing that might help you is using a bigger font.
Font size is a completely different issue. I don't have a problem with size 10 in the Pd I'm currently using, and I use 11 normally in xterm and Vim. (Font size 12 in Pd/Linux is a problem for other reasons as well, as it takes away too much patching area.)
One thing you might have overlooked is that Bitstream Vera Sans Mono
is actually a bit smaller than Courier. Plus Vera Sans Mono reads
lighter than other similar fonts, like Courier. I did not choose
this font purely because of its looks, the Lucida fonts looked
better. But it has to be free, and Lucida fonts are not free. If
anyone finds a better font option, I am open to suggestions.
This all would makes 10 point Vera text harder to read. It also
makes 12 point more acceptable. For example, measuring this message
box: [courier10(
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono 12 71x20 (Pd-0.39.2-extended-rc2) Courier 10 69x17 (Pd-0.40.2)
That's not such a big difference. Plus now that I got everything
rendering the same size on all platforms, I think it's possible to
shave off a pixel from the width.
[*] (I'm ignoring here that pd-extended now is broken for me.)
Sorry to hear that. If you want to use it, you could compile it with
the bold font, or help make a font preference so that everyone can
choose their own font.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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¡El pueblo unido jamás será vencido!
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.
Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
I used the new fonts now on windows and mac and I am a big fan of them! I vote for normal! marius.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Ciao
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though i like the appearance of the new font somehow, i clearly vote for the (b)old font (and my girlfriend does vote for it as well, so we have two votes from here).
it is far more readable than the normal font. personally, i care more about the readability of the objects than of the text (though i think, that even the text is better readable with the bold font). also, i find it crude to change something, that has been there for years and and many people are used to, without carefully asking opinions of others.
the fact, that many other applications do use normal fonts, doesn't count for me, since most of them use a quite different font and do have a quite different appearance from the pd-gui.
-> hcs: i really appreciate your work on trying to make fonts appear similar on every operatin system. but i think, these two things - same appearance on each os and changing the weight - should be worked out separately, so that nobody feels pretermitted.
my two cents:
[2] bold
roman
On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 08:17 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
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I also vote for bold:
[X] bold.png
LG Georg
btw: the font in the menues and dialog boxes including the file
selector looks extremely ugly on the machines of my ubuntu buddies.
any way to change this?
m.
I haven't seen the problem. Can you send a screenshot?
.hc
On May 18, 2007, at 7:35 AM, Max Neupert wrote:
btw: the font in the menues and dialog boxes including the file selector looks extremely ugly on the machines of my ubuntu buddies. any way to change this?
m.
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and dignity, equality and freedom for their spirits. - Martin
Luther King, Jr.
I vote for normal. no, joking I already voted. I just want to add, that even if the font should look the same on different OS, I don't think the font really looks the same because of different anti-aliasing. maybe that's the reason why some people want to stay with bold? I attach a screenshot with dejavu normal on mac. marius.
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Ciao
PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
hi
On 5/18/07, Frank Barknecht fbar@footils.org wrote:
Which do you prefer? [ x ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
bold is too demanding for documentation.
Well, since everybody else is doing it....
[x] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Bold is just too heavy and space-filling for normal use. The ability to switch to bold (or even designate certain comments as boldface) seems much more logical, captain.
d.
Derek Holzer said :
Well, since everybody else is doing it....
[x] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Bold is just too heavy and space-filling for normal use. The ability to switch to bold (or even designate certain comments as boldface) seems much more logical, captain.
[x] bold.png
hum, i would vote for bold. although i can understand the space-filling issue, bold is still easier to read(for me). besides, it might also be eaiser for new users too, making reading help/tutorial files less painfull..
cheers
chun
d.
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On May 18, 2007, at 12:52 PM, [*~] wrote:
Derek Holzer said :
Well, since everybody else is doing it....
[x] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Bold is just too heavy and space-filling for normal use. The
ability to switch to bold (or even designate certain comments as boldface) seems much more logical, captain.[x] bold.png
hum, i would vote for bold. although i can understand the space- filling issue, bold is still easier to read(for me). besides, it might also be eaiser for new users too,
making reading help/tutorial files less painfull..
I am curious why you would choose bold here, yet in desiredata, you
choose a normal font. Is there some specifics about the font
itself? Maybe it would make sense to draw the boxes lighter, like
not quite black, but more a dark gray. That would make the normal
font stand out more.
.hc
cheers
chun
d.
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 19: "Be dirty"
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Hans-Christoph Steiner said :
On May 18, 2007, at 12:52 PM, [*~] wrote:
Derek Holzer said :
Well, since everybody else is doing it....
[x] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Bold is just too heavy and space-filling for normal use. The
ability to switch to bold (or even designate certain comments as boldface) seems much more logical, captain.[x] bold.png
hum, i would vote for bold. although i can understand the space- filling issue, bold is still easier to read(for me). besides, it might also be eaiser for new users too,
making reading help/tutorial files less painfull..I am curious why you would choose bold here, yet in desiredata, you
choose a normal font. Is there some specifics about the font
itself? Maybe it would make sense to draw the boxes lighter, like
not quite black, but more a dark gray. That would make the normal
font stand out more.
my choice was not entirely derived from my personal perference, but based on (what i think) the general readability between the two choices. i mean, on my own system, i use *very* small font system wide, because i like it that way. as to desiredata, the screenshots so far are only for demo purposes, showing whatever features that are there. i mean, if i am using desiredata everyday for myself, i sure will prefer bold, rather normal.
and yes, ultimately, it would be perfect if all elements can be cumstomized. ie. lighter object boxes, or no object boxes at all;) but we are not quite there yet..
chun
.hc
cheers
chun
d.
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I also am for normal ([x] normal.png), but that is only because it looks great with OS X's anti-aliasing. After seeing Frank's screencapture, I can understand his frustration!
Is there a way to make it possible to use startup flags or the .pdrc file (and also add a menu option) to change the representation font for all loaded patches? Then we could all get the best for our patched-out eyes!
~Kyle
On 5/18/07, Derek Holzer derek@umatic.nl wrote:
Well, since everybody else is doing it....
[x] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Bold is just too heavy and space-filling for normal use. The ability to switch to bold (or even designate certain comments as boldface) seems much more logical, captain.
d.
-- derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ---Oblique Strategy # 19: "Be dirty"
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i would say the user should be able to choose what ever font she/he wants, like in "every" other program...
but for the default, i would vote bold for objects/messages etc. and normal for comments.
.andre
p.s. i hope they release tk8.5 allready! (ttf+antialias)
On Fri, 2007-05-18 at 08:17 +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
Ciao _______________________________________________ PD-list@iem.at mailing list UNSUBSCRIBE and account-management -> http://lists.puredata.info/listinfo/pd-list
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 08:17:34AM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have
expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
I vote for:
pd -font=[whatever font you like]
Failing that, I vote for it looking the way that we are used to seeing it; courier 12 bold. I especially dislike the way Vera looks in these screen shots. If you're going to use a font like that then I beg you to make it anti-aliased and stop my eyeballs from doing backflips.
Best,
Chris.
On May 18, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 08:17:34AM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.
Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera
bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
I vote for:
pd -font=[whatever font you like]
Failing that, I vote for it looking the way that we are used to seeing it; courier 12 bold. I especially dislike the way Vera looks in these screen shots. If you're going to use a font like that then I beg
you to make it anti-aliased and stop my eyeballs from doing backflips.
Yeah, things look bad in those screenshots. I am not sure of Frank's
setup. I'll do more testing on GNU/Linux. Also, those PNGs are an
odd format (16bit?) so they were behaving strangely on my computer.
I converted them to gifs and they look better. Also, I have added
some screenshots from Mac OS X, where the fonts are anti-aliased:
http://pow.idmi.poly.edu/~hans/pdfonts/
Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a new
flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command line or
pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects either "bold"
or "normal". Also, for those who don't like Bitstream Vera Sans
Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should be in tomorrows auto-
builds.
.hc
Best,
Chris.
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On Sat, May 19, 2007 at 12:40:03AM -0400, Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a new
flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command line or
pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects either "bold"
or "normal". Also, for those who don't like Bitstream Vera Sans
Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should be in tomorrows auto- builds.
Great! Seems like the best solution to me. Thanks for your work.
Chris.
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a new
flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command line or
pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects either "bold"
or "normal".
Thanks a lot for this. I couldn't test it yet, but this sounds like the best solution for now, until Pd gets a really configurable GUI.
Also as my screenshots showed, bold and normal have practically the same width and height, so the choice a user makes here shouldn't affect patch layout. I'm just not too sure about the names of the startup option(s). I think, in the end these options should be named consistently, like for example this:
-font-size (now: -font) -font-face (now: -typeface) -font-weight (now ... or tomorrow: -weight)
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On May 19, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a new flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command line or pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects either "bold" or "normal".
Thanks a lot for this. I couldn't test it yet, but this sounds like the best solution for now, until Pd gets a really configurable GUI.
Also as my screenshots showed, bold and normal have practically the same width and height, so the choice a user makes here shouldn't affect patch layout. I'm just not too sure about the names of the startup option(s). I think, in the end these options should be named consistently, like for example this:
-font-size (now: -font) -font-face (now: -typeface) -font-weight (now ... or tomorrow: -weight)
That makes sense, I just committed this change. The old flags will
still work.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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All mankind is of one author, and is one volume; when one man dies,
one chapter is not torn out of the book, but translated into a better
language; and every chapter must be so translated.... -John Donne
hy not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera
bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
- i vote normal, the bold looks way too heavy to me. reading the
comment text in bold makes my eyes spaz.
Yeah, things look bad in those screenshots. I am not sure of Frank's
setup. I'll do more testing on GNU/Linux. Also, those PNGs are an
odd format (16bit?) so they were behaving strangely on my computer.
I converted them to gifs and they look better. Also, I have added
some screenshots from Mac OS X, where the fonts are anti-aliased:
*File not found!*
The URL you have loaded has not been found on this server.
Please alert the system administrator if you believe you have reached this in error.
Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a new
flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command line or
pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects either "bold"
or "normal". Also, for those who don't like Bitstream Vera Sans
Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should be in tomorrows auto- builds.
won't this make the patches render at different sizes depending on your choice of font? so now if i want to open frank's GOP patchs and have them render right i have to remember to turn on the bold flag, which then makes all my patches render wrong?
-josh
Hallo, Josh Steiner hat gesagt: // Josh Steiner wrote:
hy not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera
bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
- i vote normal, the bold looks way too heavy to me. reading the
comment text in bold makes my eyes spaz.
Note that I deliberatly chose apatch with a lot of comments in it. Normal patches don't have comments that long.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
Frank Barknecht wrote:
Note that I deliberatly chose apatch with a lot of comments in it. Normal patches don't have comments that long.
would it make sense to have different fonts for objects and comments? a serifless font for objects and a serif font for comments.
regarding comments (offtopic, sorry): last week I was working on a very big patch for a presentation and at some point at 3am the only thing I wanted to have is a big colored pen whith which I could draw inside the patch. just to mark the path of what is processed in which order. one photoshop layer on top of the patch window would be sooooo nice to have!
marius
On May 19, 2007, at 3:43 PM, Josh Steiner wrote:
hy not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera
bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.
Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
- i vote normal, the bold looks way too heavy to me. reading the
comment text in bold makes my eyes spaz.
Yeah, things look bad in those screenshots. I am not sure of
Frank's setup. I'll do more testing on GNU/Linux. Also, those
PNGs are an odd format (16bit?) so they were behaving strangely
on my computer. I converted them to gifs and they look better.
Also, I have added some screenshots from Mac OS X, where the
fonts are anti-aliased:*File not found!*
The URL you have loaded has not been found on this server.
Please alert the system administrator if you believe you have
reached this in error.Since there is obviously some demand for bold fonts, I added a
new flag that allows you to set the font weight from the command
line or pd-settings file. The flag is "-weight" and it expects
either "bold" or "normal". Also, for those who don't like
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should
be in tomorrows auto- builds.won't this make the patches render at different sizes depending on
your choice of font? so now if i want to open frank's GOP patchs
and have them render right i have to remember to turn on the bold
flag, which then makes all my patches render wrong?
Well, ideally the font info would be embedded in the patch, like in
Max/MSP. For this release, the box sizes are pegged to pixel sizes,
so no matter what font you use, the boxes will be the same size.
Also, the area that is the clickable area of the font will be the same.
This means that fonts that are quite a bit different than bitstream
vera sans mono will look really bad. If they are bigger, the text
will run out of the boxes. If they are smaller, then there will be a
lot of blank space in the boxes.
So it's not great, but it's a step in the right direction.
.hc
-josh
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Hallo, Josh Steiner hat gesagt: // Josh Steiner wrote:
or "normal". Also, for those who don't like Bitstream Vera Sans
Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should be in tomorrows auto- builds.won't this make the patches render at different sizes depending on your choice of font? so now if i want to open frank's GOP patchs and have them render right i have to remember to turn on the bold flag, which then makes all my patches render wrong?
I think, bold and normal on Vera have about the same size (see screenshots)
But of course different patch layouts are one effect of changes to the font face. So far we had only one standard font, though with different sizes on each OS. Now pd-extended introduced two more fonts: Deja and Vera. But as I consider Miller's Pd to be the relevant version of Pd, I won't adapt my abstractions until whatever change of fonts is included there.
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
On May 19, 2007, at 6:28 PM, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Josh Steiner hat gesagt: // Josh Steiner wrote:
or "normal". Also, for those who don't like Bitstream Vera Sans Mono, there is the "-typeface" flag. Should be in tomorrows auto- builds.
won't this make the patches render at different sizes depending on
your choice of font? so now if i want to open frank's GOP patchs and have them render right i have to remember to turn on the bold flag, which then makes all my patches render wrong?I think, bold and normal on Vera have about the same size (see screenshots)
But of course different patch layouts are one effect of changes to the font face. So far we had only one standard font, though with different sizes on each OS. Now pd-extended introduced two more fonts: Deja and Vera. But as I consider Miller's Pd to be the relevant version of Pd, I won't adapt my abstractions until whatever change of fonts is included there.
Actually, because of installation issues, I decided to go with
Bitstream Vera Sans Mono (it comes with GNOME and KDE) and ditched
DejaVu Sans Mono all together. Plus, it was rendering low on the line.
.hc
Ciao
Frank Barknecht _ ______footils.org_ __goto10.org__
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On May 18, 2007, at 2:26 PM, Chris McCormick wrote:
On Fri, May 18, 2007 at 08:17:34AM +0200, Frank Barknecht wrote:
Hallo, Hans-Christoph Steiner hat gesagt: // Hans-Christoph Steiner wrote:
Many newbies think that Pd looks very strange. Many people have expressed gratitude for the switch to the normal weight font.
Why not make a vote? Attached are two screenshots, one with Vera
bold, one with Vera normal, both on Linux, both on pd-extended 0.40.Which do you prefer?
[ ] normal.png [ ] bold.png
I vote for:
pd -font=[whatever font you like]
Failing that, I vote for it looking the way that we are used to seeing it; courier 12 bold. I especially dislike the way Vera looks in these screen shots. If you're going to use a font like that then I beg
you to make it anti-aliased and stop my eyeballs from doing backflips.
One thing I forgot to mention: the anti-aliasing comes from Tcl/Tk.
I don't think Tcl/Tk 8.4 supports anti-aliasing on GNU/Linux. It does
on Mac OS X for sure, and Windows AFAIK.
.hc
Best,
Chris.
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