And if "ideally" Pd should be just a "musical instrument" that you only have to "tune and play", it's only to go with those musicians who ideally should understand the breadth and depth of Pd's potential, but in practice don't.
Thanks so much for saying this. Think of the kind of acquired skill one needs to expertly "tune and play," say, a violin, with mastery. The problem is how the phrase "just a musical instrument" is used -- if you can justify spending years learning scales so that you can play in tune and develop technical facility, learning how sound works so you can adjust the instrument, learning how music works so you can play it intelligently, learning how others before you came to master their instrument and how to develop critical opinions about their playing, etc., certainly you can justify the same kind of intense work for any "instrument" (electronic/acoustic/programmed/otherwise) if you care to become competent.
Matt
PS -- I expect my wife to wonder just what tons of emails about "hot inlet position" are doing in my inbox... =o)
On Thu, 20 Aug 2009, Matt Barber wrote:
And if "ideally" Pd should be just a "musical instrument" that you only have to "tune and play", it's only to go with those musicians who ideally should understand the breadth and depth of Pd's potential, but in practice don't.
Thanks so much for saying this. Think of the kind of acquired skill one needs to expertly "tune and play," say, a violin, with mastery.
I said «that you only have to "tune and play"» meaning a system in which you don't get to do anything else than that.
There are other activities part of traditional music-making, namely: composing music, writing music, reading music, improvising music (in your head or live), following a conductor, being the conductor, mixing the music, recording the music, postproduction, copy, distribution, playing the record, remembering a tune, building the instruments, building any musical tool, ... What we're experiencing nowadays is that more activities can be reconfigured. Already the player-pianos played a score... or is it the score that played the piano? what is sure, is that there was no musician playing it live, and yet it was still music. Nowadays you can make all sorts of hybrids between all of the above. This causes our vocabulary (and assumptions about that vocabulary) to become quite inadequate. So, increasingly, to the question "is it a musical instrument?" there is hesitation: yes, no, uh, maybe, sort of, it depends what you mean by... etc.
The problem is how the phrase "just a musical instrument" is used -- if you can justify spending years learning scales so that you can play in tune and develop technical facility, learning how sound works so you can adjust the instrument, learning how music works so you can play it intelligently, learning how others before you came to master their instrument and how to develop critical opinions about their playing, etc., certainly you can justify the same kind of intense work for any "instrument" (electronic/acoustic/programmed/otherwise) if you care to become competent.
Different instruments are easy or difficult not because of the instrument itself, but mostly because of the level skill that is expected for that instrument. Violin is hard because the standards are high. The standards are high because there is a lot of competition. There is a lot of competition because... etc. Same goes for non-instruments, actually. But if you have a violin, are looking to win a prize, and play 14 hours a day, you're not doing anything else. Therefore I can say "you're just playing an instrument". But even if you don't do it 14 hours a day, and we happen to be talking about music in general, and you don't compose your own score and record on your own, I can still say "you're just playing an instrument". And I can say that it means nothing bad, "no, no, you're playing just great", and then the person can still take it like this: "if he said it's just great, he means it's not any better than great... grumble"
...
PS: Just intonation is just intonation.
_ _ __ ___ _____ ________ _____________ _____________________ ... | Mathieu Bouchard - tél:+1.514.383.3801, Montréal, Québec
Hallo,
Mathieu Bouchard hat gesagt: // Mathieu Bouchard wrote:
There are other activities part of traditional music-making, namely:
composing music, writing music, reading music, improvising music (in your head or live), following a conductor, being the conductor, mixing the
music, recording the music, postproduction, copy, distribution, playing
the record, remembering a tune, building the instruments, building any
musical tool, ... What we're experiencing nowadays is that more activities can be reconfigured. Already the player-pianos played a score... or is it the score that played the piano? what is sure, is that there was no musician playing it live, and yet it was still music. Nowadays you can make all sorts of hybrids between all of the above. This causes our vocabulary (and assumptions about that vocabulary) to become quite inadequate. So, increasingly, to the question "is it a musical
instrument?" there is hesitation: yes, no, uh, maybe, sort of, it depends what you mean by... etc.
These are interesting points for us at RjDj, too. One or our PR claims is that RjDj (== Pd on phones) is about "music as software and software as music". RjDj is not so much about "iPhone instruments" like portable 303 clones (although it can be used as that), instead we're trying to reach a general music lover's audience (rather successfully so far) and make it interested in music that is generated in realtime, changes while being listened to and makes use of your environment (sound, movements, GPS, ...).
It's really tricky to communicate this and OTOH we also have to work on creating some kind of distribution channel for this softwaremusic, build the higher-level tools etc. We work with "traditional musicians" like Carl Craig who maybe use hardware instruments and generally are accustomed to linear composition software like Logic. They need to be "retrained" quite a bit for this non-linear music (it's easier with the "DJ crowd" and very easy for Max users). We have to mix and postproduce live on the phone, build the instruments (rj-library), make the music follow a non-musical conductor, be the conductor, and so on. So all this stuff you mentioned is in action at RjDj - Pd users of course are familiar with this already - and they are very welcome to join.
Frank
Hi
list-insert-help is crashing pd. list-insert alone works
windose vista Pd version 0.41.4-extended-rc3
best regards der.brandt
Hallo, brandt@subnet.at hat gesagt: // brandt@subnet.at wrote:
list-insert-help is crashing pd. list-insert alone works
windose vista Pd version 0.41.4-extended-rc3
Hm, doesn't crash with 0.42 vanilla and actually has never crashed for me on any previous version. I'm puzzled.
Frank
hi,
i doesn't crash for me either. winxp Pd version 0.41.4-extended-20090509 g.
Frank Barknecht schrieb:
Hallo, brandt@subnet.at hat gesagt: // brandt@subnet.at wrote:
list-insert-help is crashing pd. list-insert alone works
windose vista Pd version 0.41.4-extended-rc3
Hm, doesn't crash with 0.42 vanilla and actually has never crashed for me on any previous version. I'm puzzled.
Ciao
ola
PS -- I expect my wife to wonder just what tons of emails about "hot inlet position" are doing in my inbox... =o)
the only good remark here, no pd has nothing to do with a violin ( make your choice miller ), sorry that i don't agree that you'll get the responsiveness of a hardware circuit just no way, and that's not what we want
some people got into this ( software ) or that ( hardware ) and still so much boring music to hear, except maxibacon : http://www.myspace.com/maxibacon
really means to make music don't matter soul is first
sevy